-
Welcome to Smogon! Take a moment to read the Introduction to Smogon for a run-down on everything Smogon, and make sure you take some time to read the global rules.
VGC 2011 rules up!
- Thread starter Shinryu
- Start date
- Status
At first I was disappointed with the Isshu only rule, but after alot of battles on PO yesturday I realized that this metagame is gonna have alot of variety. I know its still early, but with no auto weather and trick room harder to pull off, I think we will see alot of new and creative teams this year.
These a good fair and clean rules for me. 5th gen pokemon only makes it a WHOLE lot interesting. In time, everyone will love these rules - at least I hope so.
to be honest I'm loving this....only Isshu pokemon is awesome, as we have playing with 4th gen for 2 years and its always good to mix things up.
This can only lead to alot more creativity :)
This can only lead to alot more creativity :)
Just some information for Erufuun users: Ubless you fear speed creep, using Timid and 224 Speed EVs is all you need for a lead Erufuun to beceome fully reliable for shutting down strategies(invest rest in bulk). Erufuun looks like a cornerstone of building a "neo-zerowing" team, or basically, one that has answers to almost every common strategy.
The way they set up this VGC is quite awesome in that it gives everyone a fresh start and starts everyone off in a batch of Pokemon that really don't have any metagame or testing at all so this will be quite interesting to test and see what Pokemon become commonly used. I already see Erufuun getting a lot of attention because of its priority taunting but it can also set up priority weather too but only in the form of Sunny Day unfortunately.
Anyway, I am really looking forward to this metagame especially since there are no set overused pokemon like last year with Ubers.
Anyway, I am really looking forward to this metagame especially since there are no set overused pokemon like last year with Ubers.
Imo, Erufuun needs 252 and + Speed, reason being other Erufuun who need to be taunted before they can taunt you.
But I agree, Erufuun is really the new deal. Encore punishs every attempt of Protecting one's way out of a bad situation, especially if the opposition is already down to two PKMN. I've run Taunt / Encore / field move of choice / U-turn and although U-turn can be scrapped, I found it comfortable to break sashes and U-turn out if I get Fake Outed + Taunted first turn. I know Protect does a better job here but I don't want to risk that if other Erufuun can Encore the Protect.
But I agree, Erufuun is really the new deal. Encore punishs every attempt of Protecting one's way out of a bad situation, especially if the opposition is already down to two PKMN. I've run Taunt / Encore / field move of choice / U-turn and although U-turn can be scrapped, I found it comfortable to break sashes and U-turn out if I get Fake Outed + Taunted first turn. I know Protect does a better job here but I don't want to risk that if other Erufuun can Encore the Protect.
I have been running Erufuun with Taunt, Encore, Sub, and Leech Seed for the ultimate in cute and pulling the hair out of your scalp annoyance, lol. Erufuun is just so good because it had the one thing every VGC player wanted in 2009 not so much in 2010 but still you get PRIORITY taunt, and there is no more auto weather so that taunt pretty much rapes just about any team that wants to try and set up trick room or weather on you. But that same pokemon can make your Trick Room user twist and untwist the dimensions for about 5 turns which is actually hilarious.
Yeah man, it's not like move: Fake Out exists and has higher priority than anything Erufuun can do. That's just a figment of my imagination.
Erufuun + something with Anger Powder or w/e it is. +3 Priority like Fake Out. Unfortunately, only Ulgamoth and Jumpluff (who's banned this year) have the speed to pull it off.
Ok, so that works against Fake Out (I actually had no idea that move even existed prior to your post, thank you kind sir). Then they... attack you? I agree that Erufuun is good, but what does Taunt do against something that just attacks you? Substitute/Leech Seed like the other dude posted is annoying but not impossible to deal with either, especially in doubles where you can have 2 attacks hitting it. I think it's very good at stopping Trick Room/Weather users, but it doesn't really do much against the teams that just beat you down. Overall I'd say that it's pretty healthy for the metagame, because without it it would seem that TR or weather strategies would crush most teams.
There is also the second move that Erufuun gets is Encore so you can encore that fake out or rain dance or trick room they just used and lock them into it which forces the switch or the pokemon to be useless. Combine this with Shandera if it gets shadow tag before VGC and thats going to annoy the crap out of people.
Yes, that's the point with Encore, although I can see your argument being right in that the opposition might just plain old attack instead of trying to setup / Protect when they see Erufuun.
What really makes Erufuun great is it's massive versatility since it can be abused for setting up Tailwind, Sunny Day, killing the opposition's set-up and locking them into moves. That's what we both agree on.
And sure they keep the meta healthy since other set-ups would run rampant but I'm asking myself if they overdid it with Erufuun :D
What really makes Erufuun great is it's massive versatility since it can be abused for setting up Tailwind, Sunny Day, killing the opposition's set-up and locking them into moves. That's what we both agree on.
And sure they keep the meta healthy since other set-ups would run rampant but I'm asking myself if they overdid it with Erufuun :D
Problem is Trick Room users are almost always going to carry Mushroom guy, so you need to Fake him Out and Taunt the Trick Room user to stop it going up. The mere presence of Eruufuun does force the Trick Room user to switch out on turn 2 if it does get it up, though, as the possibility of Encore is just too high.
You might want to reconsider this.
So, you have no trick room, a taunted supporter, which could get Encored, and the Mushroom who might be taunted.
You're able to Trick Room OR Spore, whatever the Erufuun user does.
Erufuun somehow shuts down TR :/
Erufuun + Kojondo is cool stuff :naughty:
Or, wait... Are you able to Encore a move, the User couldn't use cause he got taunted?
Nope, Encore just fails then because the user didn't execute the move because of Taunt. Needs testing on the DS I guess.
I didn't mean to say that Erufuun cannot get circumvented but the mere fact that EVERY set-up team has to fear getting priority-taunted or encored as well as its enormous versatility (priority Tailwind, priority Sunny Day, even Trick Room for fun) speaks for itself, doesn't it Kinneas? Maybe it's a bit too harsh to say that the people who have problems with it "aren't good in doubles" because it FORCES people to use less set-up and Protect and carry random Taunt users in the back as well as dedicated hardcore sweepers which is a clear metagame-domination in my eyes. Eventually everyone will find a way to play around Erufuun but the fact of its own that one has to play around it says everything about how potent it is.
I didn't mean to say that Erufuun cannot get circumvented but the mere fact that EVERY set-up team has to fear getting priority-taunted or encored as well as its enormous versatility (priority Tailwind, priority Sunny Day, even Trick Room for fun) speaks for itself, doesn't it Kinneas? Maybe it's a bit too harsh to say that the people who have problems with it "aren't good in doubles" because it FORCES people to use less set-up and Protect and carry random Taunt users in the back as well as dedicated hardcore sweepers which is a clear metagame-domination in my eyes. Eventually everyone will find a way to play around Erufuun but the fact of its own that one has to play around it says everything about how potent it is.
Most competitive players aren't going to use Outrage in doubles, because it randomly targets someone, and since you're forced to use it you're basically dead meat. The only Pokemon that *might* use it is Ononokusu just because of it's raw power, but otherwise it probably wouldn't work. Zeburaika is too frail to survive more than one attack, too.
In response to all this Erufuun hype, it's well-informed. (the hype) It will get kinda frustrating, however, when you go against another Erufuun (when you have one) as it's basically a speed tie to see who Taunts first. But if you're prepared for it it's not too much of a problem, as a strong attack or two will be sure to take it down. You just have to make sure you have a way to beat it or else you run the chance of being totally shut down.
- Status