he's dark, so one on one, no.
i wouldnt be able to answer for which one generally does bulk up drainpunch better.
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Scrafty
- Thread starter LudicoloGuy
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he's dark, so one on one, no.
i wouldnt be able to answer for which one generally does bulk up drainpunch better.
No for two horrid reasons 1) Roobu is not weak to fighting type while Zuru is (its one of his only 2 weaknesses the other being flying) and of course 2) compare the stats of the two Roobu clearly has more HP and ALOT more atk (this can only get worse if the person decided to run guts with a flame orb equipped so he may not even need that bulk up atk boost). Then again its not like Roobushin would bother just drain punching as he has that ever so lovely mach punch ~_~ to use in finishing off lots of things. Though in general when I used Zuru most Roobu users tended to make Zuru his set up fodder rather than attacking straight on- hence why I loved dragon tail on Zuru.
Sometimes he can sometimes not, but unless zuru is fully Def EVed and maybe got already a bulk up your chances are bad since ropushin hits him for SE damage and got a higher attack stat.
@Machi Ropushin having more Hp and less defenses is acutally beneficial for zuru, because zuru gains back more HP with Drain Punch while Ropushin gets back less from zurus lower HP stat and high defenses, still thanks to Zurus fighting weakness and Ropushins high attack Ropushing got the advantage 80% of the time.
Ontopic:
This pokemon is extremely cool, his defenses coupled with shed skin and great Stabs make him ubeliveable hard to deal with. Its pretty easy getting one or two Bulk Ups and from there on only extremely hard hitters like the latis, shandera and the likes can KO him.
Shed Skin+Drain Punch is brilliant on this guy many defensive Stat uppers like CM or Curse were ruined by status or needed to run SleepTalk on their sets wich only allows for mono attacking. Shed Skin gets often rid of status and allows Rest usage without Sleep Talk thanks to a fairly good chance of waking up early on top of that Drain Punch even heals him while he attacks and after some Bulk Ups it really hurts. Also he is one of the few Stat uppers that aren't ruined by Ditto as Dittos lower Defenses will make him lose almost everytime if your above 40% Health.
I run this set and it worked great for me:
Zuruzukin@Lefties
Ability:Shed Skin
252 HP/160 Def /92 SpDef
Nature: Careful (credits for the spread go to Blasphemy, though they only even his defenses i think)
-Bulk Up
-Drain Punch /HJK
-Crunch
-Rest/HJK/Dragon Tail
Pretty self explainatory Bulk Up as often as possible and heal back with Drain Punch. HJK is also an option as you already got recovery with rest, but its hard to find an opportunity to use it and Drain Punch keeps you healthy while attacking and allows you to get more Bulk Ups so the power evens out.
Crunch over Payback for several reasons afaik payback only reaches 100BP when you were attacked that turn so everytime your opponent switches or boosts up it only hits for 50 BP not to mention that slower pokemon are an issue too (Rankurusu and Slowbro anyone?) and finally Crunch got the nice chance to lower the opponents Def.
Rest or HJK is an issue too, sometimes full recovery and getting rid of status can be extremely helpful but sometime you just need that extra power to OHKO a specific threat. I have to confess i haven't tried HJK yet, but both seem to be useful so i slashed it.
Dragon Tail is an option too if you stat up along side something else and just want to get rid of them when your done stat boosting and phazing is always good to have to scout for counters or get rid of baton passing.
I don't see why you would want to use HJK at all. The healing from Drain Punch is amazing once you get a few boosts up. Also, I've tried both Dragon Tail and Rest and I can assure you that Rest is so much better. Most phazers are going to outspeed you, anyway, and it does pathetic damage without STAB. Shed Skin+Rest is great because you'll probably wake up early. Even if you don't, Roopushin can take non SE attacks while it sleeps (once I was against a Togekiss that couldn't 3HKO it with Air Slash).
I kinda passed this guy over when I was checking out new pokes at first. I looked at him again and realized he has some stuff going for him. I love those STABs resisted by bug fighting, poison fighting, and flying fighting only (least I think). I'm going to try out several of his sets for sure.
Btw I've offically cracked: I looked at his page the other day and I know I saw sucker punch. I went to the page again today when I saw the complaints of no sucker punch and it wasn't there. I got all exicted....
Btw I've offically cracked: I looked at his page the other day and I know I saw sucker punch. I went to the page again today when I saw the complaints of no sucker punch and it wasn't there. I got all exicted....
Power. That power will singlehandedly allow it to win Bulk Up wars with Roopushin, counter Doryuuzu, (HJK without attack investment KOs 100% of the time), and pose an even greater threat to walls, bulky sweepers, or even non-bulky powerful sweepers alike. For example, Blaziken isn't afraid of your Drain Punch at all; he can come right in, set up and either KO or pass it while you watch him do it. HJK, however, OHKOs at +1 after Rocks with no Attack investment (89.7% - 105.6%).
I agree, people are orgying over Dragon Dance, in a competitive metagame where all things fast and sandy and scarfed are roaming, I doubt Zuruzukin will have the bulk to perform even 2 DD's w/o getting hit at least once. Why waste your Evs in offensive stats when u can drive them all into hefty bulk. It'll work better and Drain punch (possibly with Bulk up and a careful nature) makes it a great attacker and works similar to Bulk up Gallade and Roobushin. And might i add Dragon tail to accompany the bulk rather than throwing speed into it, kthx.
If i read your post properly, then your're saying that Zuruzikin would win against a bulk up war against Roobushin, might i say/remind u that he is part dark ergo, he is weak to fighting? And to be honest i'd prefer Drain Punch as it can heal you, i'd rather have an attacking move that heals u on a bulky pokemon then have roughly a 50% increased power move that could miss and then break half your HP. You should weigh the odds. HJK IMO is left for the powerful high attack sweepers such as Blaziken and Kojondo.
agreed. power is good but zuru cant afford to lose his most reliable healing move(Bar shed skin rest). you still lose the bulk up war against roopushin with HJK(yes, his +1 drain punch beats your +1 HJK) and doryuuzu is not enjoying drain punchs at all while he cant ohko you without a SD below his belt(if he does he still cant ohko if you used bulk up, what will make drain punch hurt even more too).
he is suppose to stay in field and HJK doesnt help with that at all.
he is suppose to stay in field and HJK doesnt help with that at all.
Yes, that's right, HJK can allow you to win Bulk Up wars with Roopushin, provided you're the first one to use Bulk Up. Need I remind you that Zuruzukin has very good Defense? One Bulk Up and you're like a friggin' Steelix. If you've played any UU, you'd know how hard it is to kill that thing off the bat with anything.
Here's how it goes down: you Bulk Up as Roopushin comes in. Right then and there, you're in a position to 2HKO. From there, you can either Bulk Up again, predicting the Drain Punch, or go right for the 2HKO predicting the Bulk Up. Notice how I never said you always win the Bulk Up war; it's a matter of the spread you use and predicting properly. I'm pretty sure he wins regardless of whether or not he attacks right away, but I'd have to check the damage calculator on that one. Hi Jump Kick is very powerful, even coming from base 95 Att.
Regarding the spread, the one I usually use is max/max with Intimidate for checking especially strong physical sweepers like Doryuuzu, Garchomp, and Salamence. Every time Roopushin comes in, it usually sets up first, which gives me an opening to HJK right away. Not surprising at all, since most players run no phys. Def with Drain Punch, which Roopushin has no reason to fear.
Hey guys, what do you think about this set?
Zuruzukin@Lefties
Shed Skin
(Defensive spread of your choice)/252 Spe
Nature: Jolly
Dragon Dance
Drain Punch
Crunch
Dragon Tail
Basically, the strategy behind this is that Zuruzukin stays in the field as long as possible, making a nuisance of himself. Shed Skin is absolutely necessary, because otherwise just about every status effect would nullify this strat. You switch in on something that won't be doing any damage to you. (My Lead Uxie is a very good synergy for this, I often trick people into choice-locked stone edges or dark/ghost attacks because of Uxie's typing.) Go ahead and DD up while they switch in a counter. Pretty much the main idea of this set is that after your DD you'll be able to tank the first hit of your counter or outspeed them. If you can tank their first hit, then you DD a second time, bringing your speed to +2, and then you can Dragon Tail everything that you won't be able to drop instantly, and hammer away with Drain Punch and Crunch. Ideally, using Dragon Tail, (and Stealth Rock) you'll chip away at your counters and maybe even bring out a pokemon that you can score additional setups on. Dragon Tail phazing will also buy time to accumulate health from Lefties too, assuming there's no weather in play.
Edit: Also, I agree with SJC. From what I've seen, Roopushin will almost always Bulk on first turn vs physicals that don't need a quick Mach Punch treatment. Lately they also seem to be putting EVs into a combination of Attack and Sp. Def to counter Shanderas that love to switch in on them.
Zuruzukin@Lefties
Shed Skin
(Defensive spread of your choice)/252 Spe
Nature: Jolly
Dragon Dance
Drain Punch
Crunch
Dragon Tail
Basically, the strategy behind this is that Zuruzukin stays in the field as long as possible, making a nuisance of himself. Shed Skin is absolutely necessary, because otherwise just about every status effect would nullify this strat. You switch in on something that won't be doing any damage to you. (My Lead Uxie is a very good synergy for this, I often trick people into choice-locked stone edges or dark/ghost attacks because of Uxie's typing.) Go ahead and DD up while they switch in a counter. Pretty much the main idea of this set is that after your DD you'll be able to tank the first hit of your counter or outspeed them. If you can tank their first hit, then you DD a second time, bringing your speed to +2, and then you can Dragon Tail everything that you won't be able to drop instantly, and hammer away with Drain Punch and Crunch. Ideally, using Dragon Tail, (and Stealth Rock) you'll chip away at your counters and maybe even bring out a pokemon that you can score additional setups on. Dragon Tail phazing will also buy time to accumulate health from Lefties too, assuming there's no weather in play.
Edit: Also, I agree with SJC. From what I've seen, Roopushin will almost always Bulk on first turn vs physicals that don't need a quick Mach Punch treatment. Lately they also seem to be putting EVs into a combination of Attack and Sp. Def to counter Shanderas that love to switch in on them.
Dragon tail has negative priority, so the speed boosts from DD are negated.
Even if zuruzukin is bulky, only 252 evs in bulk and no boosting nature for it almost guarantees that it won't hang around for much long, especially with a fighting weakness.
I would but 252 evs in hp and split the rest among def and spdef. Adamant over jolly as zuru needs the atk and speed is really that necessary
Even if zuruzukin is bulky, only 252 evs in bulk and no boosting nature for it almost guarantees that it won't hang around for much long, especially with a fighting weakness.
I would but 252 evs in hp and split the rest among def and spdef. Adamant over jolly as zuru needs the atk and speed is really that necessary
I see, I never really played around with phazing moves before so I never realized they had negative priority. In that case, nevermind. I guess I'll probably try Slow BU with Ice Punch for coverage.
Also as a side note, I really dislike Intimidate as an ability on a physical attacker, the reason being anything with Trace or Ditto can switch in and shaft your Attack stat. Though honestly, judging from the other dude's face-off against Porygon 2, you could probably just tank boltbeam and set up till your stats are nice and high again anyway. Ditto will tear you a new one no matter what, though.
Also as a side note, I really dislike Intimidate as an ability on a physical attacker, the reason being anything with Trace or Ditto can switch in and shaft your Attack stat. Though honestly, judging from the other dude's face-off against Porygon 2, you could probably just tank boltbeam and set up till your stats are nice and high again anyway. Ditto will tear you a new one no matter what, though.
Just letting everyone know, Zuru makes a better ChestoRest Dancer than Kingdra. I have found i can pull off an average of 3 DD's to Kingdra's 2. In fact, i have found myself getting 4 fairly often, which is pretty insane.
Here's my set:
Braedon's Special Berry
Zuruzukin@Chesto Berry
Adamant, Intimidate
200 Hp, 156 Atk, 100 SpD, 52 Spe
-Dragon Dance
-Rest
-Drain Punch
-Crunch/Ice Punch/Fire Punch
This set is still in progress, however. The given Spe EVs allow you to outspeed +100's after 2 DDs, though I am currently experimenting other Spe EVs. The rest is put into making Zuru specially bulky, as Intimidate easily covers the Physical side.
While Kingdra focuses on an offence with enough defence for some extra setup, This set focuses very narrow-mindedly into a defensive mon, to get as many DD's as possible. This set is a little bit harder to pull off than Kingdra, but I find it works much better. It is nearly impossible to revenge with its massive defences and healing punches.
Rest and Dragon Dance are givens, as is Drain Punch. This STAB attack allows him to heal himself. Which is awesome. Crunch/Ice Punch/Fire Punch is dependant on what you want him to hit. I prefer Crunch, as STAB is great, and Fighting/Dark coverage has been proven successful through Machamp. Ice Punch is for opposing Dragons, and Fire Punch if for the all-too common Skarmory or Forretress
Here's my set:
Braedon's Special Berry
Zuruzukin@Chesto Berry
Adamant, Intimidate
200 Hp, 156 Atk, 100 SpD, 52 Spe
-Dragon Dance
-Rest
-Drain Punch
-Crunch/Ice Punch/Fire Punch
This set is still in progress, however. The given Spe EVs allow you to outspeed +100's after 2 DDs, though I am currently experimenting other Spe EVs. The rest is put into making Zuru specially bulky, as Intimidate easily covers the Physical side.
While Kingdra focuses on an offence with enough defence for some extra setup, This set focuses very narrow-mindedly into a defensive mon, to get as many DD's as possible. This set is a little bit harder to pull off than Kingdra, but I find it works much better. It is nearly impossible to revenge with its massive defences and healing punches.
Rest and Dragon Dance are givens, as is Drain Punch. This STAB attack allows him to heal himself. Which is awesome. Crunch/Ice Punch/Fire Punch is dependant on what you want him to hit. I prefer Crunch, as STAB is great, and Fighting/Dark coverage has been proven successful through Machamp. Ice Punch is for opposing Dragons, and Fire Punch if for the all-too common Skarmory or Forretress
^The thing is, phazing it is way too easy, which is where Kingdra's advantage lies. I don't care how bulky your Skarmory is, it won't like being forced to take a +1 STAB, rain-boosted Waterfall and then face down another threat. Skarmory can shrug off all of those moves with ease, and of course strike back with SE Brave Bird.
The same can be said of Suicune, who will just roar it out. Kingdra can at least blast it with an Outrage, and outspeeding it is simply not an issue because you have both Rain and DD behind you.
Taking two Dragon Dances just to outspeed the likes of Naive Salamence is just way too much, and you are still just as vulnerable to being revenge killed because, unlike Bulk Up, your defenses are not buffed at all.
The same can be said of Suicune, who will just roar it out. Kingdra can at least blast it with an Outrage, and outspeeding it is simply not an issue because you have both Rain and DD behind you.
Taking two Dragon Dances just to outspeed the likes of Naive Salamence is just way too much, and you are still just as vulnerable to being revenge killed because, unlike Bulk Up, your defenses are not buffed at all.
Zuruzukin with max speed and a neutral nature can outrun the multitude of +ve natured base 100's after one Dragon Dance by 2 points, and a Jolly nature with 216 Spe EVs can outrun +ve base 110s such as Latios / Gengar etc. You will probably have to forego defensive EVs if you want to run DD, his attack and speed are too underwhelming to neglect. Im thinking:
Zuruzukin @ Life Orb
~Dragon Dance
~Hi Jump Kick / Drain Punch
~Crunch
~Ice Punch
Jolly
Shed Skin / Overconfidence
40 HP / 252 Atk / 216 Spe
The moveset is pretty obvious: Hi Jump Kick for power and STAB (Drain Punch is an option but its not really recommended due to its low base power), Crunch to hit the ever present Ghosts and Psychics that are increasing in popularity, and Ice punch to nail Gliscor / Dragons mainly. Shed Skin or Overconfidence is a personal choice and depends on whether you're scared of Boiling Water burns and Twave or want the attack boost. Personally I'd go for Overconfidence though.
It does actually seem quite effective, can't be fucked to do damage calcs but HJK should remedy that base 95 Attack and it has very good synergy with Crunch. Ice Punch rounds this off by hitting specific pokemon that Fighting types normally struggle with. This set is what lets it contend with Roopushin in terms of sweeping potential, and the fantastic bulk and SR resistance mean it should have little problem being effective in OU. Bring along a Shandera to fuck up Scarf Ditto and you're good to go.
Edit: I've tested it and it's actually pretty good. Zuzu can set up on a fair amount of things (moreso with Shed Skin), and gets the most satisfying surprise kills when it outspeeds various quick shit. His bulk is just an absolute lifesaver while sweeping, the ability to take big hits like Scizor's Bullet Punch, Azumarill's Aqua Jet and a number of Scarfed hits is cool. Gyrados, Skarmory and Hippowdon fuck him up to an extent, but they can be worked around.
Zuruzukin @ Life Orb
~Dragon Dance
~Hi Jump Kick / Drain Punch
~Crunch
~Ice Punch
Jolly
Shed Skin / Overconfidence
40 HP / 252 Atk / 216 Spe
The moveset is pretty obvious: Hi Jump Kick for power and STAB (Drain Punch is an option but its not really recommended due to its low base power), Crunch to hit the ever present Ghosts and Psychics that are increasing in popularity, and Ice punch to nail Gliscor / Dragons mainly. Shed Skin or Overconfidence is a personal choice and depends on whether you're scared of Boiling Water burns and Twave or want the attack boost. Personally I'd go for Overconfidence though.
It does actually seem quite effective, can't be fucked to do damage calcs but HJK should remedy that base 95 Attack and it has very good synergy with Crunch. Ice Punch rounds this off by hitting specific pokemon that Fighting types normally struggle with. This set is what lets it contend with Roopushin in terms of sweeping potential, and the fantastic bulk and SR resistance mean it should have little problem being effective in OU. Bring along a Shandera to fuck up Scarf Ditto and you're good to go.
Edit: I've tested it and it's actually pretty good. Zuzu can set up on a fair amount of things (moreso with Shed Skin), and gets the most satisfying surprise kills when it outspeeds various quick shit. His bulk is just an absolute lifesaver while sweeping, the ability to take big hits like Scizor's Bullet Punch, Azumarill's Aqua Jet and a number of Scarfed hits is cool. Gyrados, Skarmory and Hippowdon fuck him up to an extent, but they can be worked around.
Just to give a basic idea:
Timid Life Orb Gengar Focus Blast: 67.1% to 79%
Naive Life Orb Salamence Draco Meteor: 51.5% to 61.1%
Timid Choice Specs Starmie Hydro Pump: 47.9% to 56.9%
Modest Life Orb Lucario Aura Sphere: 76% to 98.8%
+2 Timid Life Orb Azelf HP Fighting: 75.4% to 89.2%
+2 Modest Empoleon Surf: 60.2% to 71%
+2 Naive Life Orb Infernape Fire Blast: 85.3% to 100.6%
Timid Choice Specs Kingdra Draco Meteor: 54.2% to 64.1%
Edit: Eh, did those because they were easy to plug into Smogon's damage calculator. Here are some more fifth-gen centric ones:
+4 Timid Life Orb Venusaur Giga Drain: 78.1% to 91.9%
+1 Naive Ulgamoth Fire Blast: 59.3% to 70.1%
+4 Timid Jaroda Leaf Storm: 93.4% to 109.9%
+2 Modest Jaroda Leaf Storm: 68.3% to 80.2%
Timid Life Orb Zoroark Focus Blast: 62.9% to 74.3%
Modest Life Orb Genosect Bug Buzz: 39.5% to 46.7%
Timid Choice Specs Ninetales Fire Blast under Sunny Day: 62.9% to 74%
Dang, that's pretty awesome. I can't really get his niche working right though, I mean, he's really Specially Bulky, but since the meta's mostly physical, a lot of the time they just switch in a Roopushin or something, unless I trick them by switching in on a Stone Edge or something to make them think he's Physical.
Like SJCrew said, not everything that has DD should HAS to be utilized, sure on paper it's a good move but it's driving u from zuruzukin's main purpose. Being a bulky fighting type; don't bother with it's speed (Unless/until smogon gets out tiering list) as its speed is too low and would often take a hit or 2 before it has any sort of power in it. Abuse the bulk, something that stands out on Zuru than anything else.
i made something called the perfect punch set its better on hitmonchan but works great on this guy
zuruzukin
item life orb/leftovers
252 atk 252 spd 4 hp
drain punch
thunder punch
ice punch
fire punch
zuruzukin
item life orb/leftovers
252 atk 252 spd 4 hp
drain punch
thunder punch
ice punch
fire punch
...uh.... you said it.
Zuruzukin has better things to be doing. :0 why run all those when Dark/Fighting are both STAB, get nearly perfect coverage, and leave plenty of room to DD/BU up?
