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Moody
- Thread starter Wichu
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Oh no, Inconsistent (along with at the very min Darkrai and Shaymin-S and most likely Manaphy and maybe Deoxys) is if things were going, at the VERY TOP of the list. It is just a mother(beep) son of a (beep) that deserves to rot. If there is anything that deserves to be banned, Inconsistent is one. It might have not been so bad +2,-2 because then bad drops are even worse and you can't still get pluses when you have a drop then a sharp boost and it will be definitely less reliable and short of extremely good luck, much less useful but it might (I don't know since it isn't) not have been broken then.
Prediction isn't a good argument because they could just as easily out predict your attack and attack back.
Because offense is useless from the inconsistant user's perspective? The point of inconsistant is to stall out until you get enough boosts. If you neglect speed and bulk, you might be able to stop certain counters but you'll end up getting outsped by a lot more and priority will hurt much more.
That is only true before +2. There is only marginal damage change from Min hp/min def and max hp/evenly spread defenses after +2 (you might as well go max def then since there is really no point in special defense most of the time since it takes max max to avoid even being 2 hit koed after a +2 boost from Zapdos and Roserade if they hit you). An 8% change from 352 and 218 vrs 291 and 186. What this means is that Mach Punch can break substitute even with +2 (with Guts, without Guts, Mach Punch couldn't do much diddly squat either way). But why would they if they expect to need to do it with Drain Punch?
Also, max special attack can potentially 2 hit ko Mushroom and Roopushin (almost a ohko on Shroom with Icebeam/Flamethrower and is with Stealth Rock while it ohkoes none special defensive invested Roopushins with +2 boost) while no special attack can't. Also, you can maybe 3 hit ko (max special defense/max special defense might barely survive) Burungeru with +6 resisted Flamethrower/Icebeam (you'll force it out of Recover before you run out of pp) with max special attack while it will pp stall you to death without Toxic with none. So it could, potentially with enough satk boosts kill it eventually. Needs to avoid Taunt though. You also kill Latios/min-min Latias/Zapdos/Roserade ohkos with +2 Icebeam with Max over no special attack investment. You also still almost ohko kill Toxicroak if you went with Icebeam over Flamethrower with +2 while it won't with min special attack. I can see why min special attack might choose Toxic because it loses some useful ohkoes without investment
I guess it might help to be able to outspeed Shaymin/Darkrai. But you would rather have the evasion since even if you outspeed it, with no special attack, you can't ohko Darkrai with Surf while you can with max Timid (or Modest). No special attack means you couldn't 2 hit ko Shaymin with just Surf (so you'll need Flamethrower/Icebeam then which it wouldn't have according to you) while could with investment and Deoxys +spd nature will always outspeed you even after +2 no matter what nature you run. There is a large change in ko potential from no special attack to max, hence the reason why I like the more offensive attacking versions.
It is kind of like Gyrados, offensive and defensive variants (kind of). One straight out attacks with massive power after Dragon Dance while the other hopes to get multiple boosts with invested defenses (except in this case, both Octilleries get multiple boosts each and every round). The offensive kills more stuff period at the opening while the defensive one could as well after a boost or two and even more effectively. Except in this case, it seems reversed where offensive seems to work more efficiently (in my opinion) although the defensive one could make a sick staller. The only problem is that the defensive one gets stalled to death by Burungeru/Tentacruel/Toxicroak while the offensive one doesn't (since he kills Toxicroak and could kill Burungeru/Tentacruel eventually after +6 boosts assuming no Hail/Toxic Damage on it and maybe Taunt). And he could kills other pokemon that really hurt it that the defensive once couldn't (Breloom, Shroom, Cloyster, Roopushin, Latios/Latias with Refresh, Zapdos...)...
Hence the reason I personally prefer the offensive variants and after +2, there is only a marginal %change really (almost all the things that could break your sub at +2 still would with defenses invested or not except maybe Guts Roopushin Mach Punch or maybe unboosted Cloyster Rock Blast.
ok, an almost ohko to morobareru is nothing, because clear smog will clear all the stat changes, then regeneration will heal it as it switches out.
I've actually used morobareru as a counter a full on inconsistent team, which is why I stress using it.
Whoever suggested ditto as a counter is stupid.
Uh, somebody said something about Desukan as a counter, and a curse variant of Desukan actually works wonders. Doesnt rely on accuracy and has the bulk to take a +2 Surf.
And I'm sorry I got the evasion concept wrong....
I've actually used morobareru as a counter a full on inconsistent team, which is why I stress using it.
Whoever suggested ditto as a counter is stupid.
Uh, somebody said something about Desukan as a counter, and a curse variant of Desukan actually works wonders. Doesnt rely on accuracy and has the bulk to take a +2 Surf.
And I'm sorry I got the evasion concept wrong....
Except for in that situation it would be a 2 hit ko if it came in a second time and Clear Smog can't really break Octillery's sub (unless you got special attack or something)?
How much special defense would a curse variant run seeing as with max hp/min special defense, Octillery does massive damage. (Actually, a +2 Surf would kill it even with max hp/sdef because of curse cutting it's hp in half so never mind. Octillery would kill it and be forced to switch out. On a ghost, Curse should still cut your hp in half).
Ah, that's fine. I just think you should "lurk more", then.
and this is an advice not a threat lol
We're banning Inconsistent (probably due to the overwhelming majority).
And Clear Smog is a shitty idea. A Base 40 attack with the worst typing of the game to counter a gimmick team that might not even show up? Yeah, no thanks. I'd rather run Quagsire as my Kyogre check, if I'm feeling that crazy.
No, this whole argument translates to "I'd don't enjoy going from 6-0 to 0-6 because my opponent got a lucky three coin flips."
People actually get frustrated when they get 6-0'd by a Bidoof. The worst part is that someone has already 6-0'ed with a Bidoof.
@Forte: But Quagsire IS a good Kyogre check... =P
Silly me, I was kinda worked up about this because I really can't stand ridiculous "logic" that doesn't make much sense. Now that I chill and think about it, the counters argument is not really relevant. (they're not counters. but saying even if those were good counters, there are still good reasons to ban it.)
Wobbuffet Gen 4 was completely "counterable". Run Shed Shell on 4 of your pokes, CB Scizor, and a Gengar, for example. But LOL, this kind of counnterstratagy turns every team into a Wobbuffet team, or an Anti-Wobbuffet team. Hence, he was banned.
Similarly, Inconsistent users not only rely on coin flips to win, but also advocate unhealthy metagame. Fine, lets' just SAY Burungeru is a good Bibarel / Octillery check (I call setup bait). Still, you really don't want to get caught using a heavily offensive team with a Burungeru. Congrats, you just killed offense. And Stall, too, if you have a taunting Inconsistent user (READ: every one of them learns taunt). Basically, allowing Inconsistent will force everyone to run mediocre balance teams that "try" to counter Inconsistent, yet consistently fail to do so. It is partially about luck + frustration + lack of counters, but mostly because it divides every team into two categories.
Well, at least thinking of keeping this isn't as ludicrous as Ho-Oh for BL.
Silly me, I was kinda worked up about this because I really can't stand ridiculous "logic" that doesn't make much sense. Now that I chill and think about it, the counters argument is not really relevant. (they're not counters. but saying even if those were good counters, there are still good reasons to ban it.)
Wobbuffet Gen 4 was completely "counterable". Run Shed Shell on 4 of your pokes, CB Scizor, and a Gengar, for example. But LOL, this kind of counnterstratagy turns every team into a Wobbuffet team, or an Anti-Wobbuffet team. Hence, he was banned.
Similarly, Inconsistent users not only rely on coin flips to win, but also advocate unhealthy metagame. Fine, lets' just SAY Burungeru is a good Bibarel / Octillery check (I call setup bait). Still, you really don't want to get caught using a heavily offensive team with a Burungeru. Congrats, you just killed offense. And Stall, too, if you have a taunting Inconsistent user (READ: every one of them learns taunt). Basically, allowing Inconsistent will force everyone to run mediocre balance teams that "try" to counter Inconsistent, yet consistently fail to do so. It is partially about luck + frustration + lack of counters, but mostly because it divides every team into two categories.
Well, at least thinking of keeping this isn't as ludicrous as Ho-Oh for BL.
Doesn't Mummy require the opponent to hit the Mummy user with a physical move? ...Yeah no.
You could say it causes teams to be....*puts on shades* Inconsistent.
Weezing is a very good bulky pokemon whose underrated because the thing is seriously bulky. However, that is another reason why I love Max SAtk Octillery over no investment whatsoever. With Max hp/sdef (but proably +Def nature to still have physical bulk) Octillery needs special attack investment to win (since Weezing would need to Haze every other turn or so to keep the boosts low depending on what Octillery gets).
246 SAtk Octillery Surf Vrs 334 hp/239 SDef: 31.74-37.72%
339 SAtk Octillery Surf vrs 334 hp/239 SDef: 43.41-51.5%
Assuming it doesn't have Stockpile (which I think would clear after it uses Haze since Haze affects both players?) what happens is that defensive Octillery...loses because it can't even 3 hit ko with Surf, carries Pain Split+Haze and Thunderbolt for example can 2 hit ko Octillery. However, there is a chance Octillery can win since it's faster (although Thunderbolt is does still 2 hit ko) but if you're lucky and get a +SAtk boost, Weezing would be so weakened that you'd kill it. This is why Inconsistent is so dangerous. If it gives the proper boost at the right time (or at least not a bad one+lowering something you need) it could overpower it's switchins. Or it could die. But it still comes down to luck and that is never a good thing since one: people can have extraordinary luck, two: it is not fun to play against since it takes things and makes it irrelevant and can change everything, and three: it could be a dangerous red button when you're losing for when you have nothing to lose, there really is nothing more to lose but everything to gain and has turned losing games into winning ones.
Despite my love for Octillery (it is an awesome Octopus!) Inconsistent is still the most broken thing known to Pokemon and needs to be forever banished to the nether regions and never seen again (unless both players agree to have Inconsistent if they so desire). Just because it was made doesn't mean it has to be played.
oooh pls, ban this inconsistent and ohko moves. I dropped so extremely cuz of this. da top was mine with 1689 points on PO Server. Then i lost against a random who used glalie with an ohko move called sheer cold. dont tell me anything about roar etc. i used my tran but roar missed againts its +4 evasion and it easily ohko'd me with sheer cold + 2 accuary. I stopped laddering cuz of that. My teams re beyond belief but i can't create any team which is immune against random lucker tactics. I just want bringing real skill back but i dont have any methods against this shit without destroying a simply perfect team for the current metagame and common teams, tactics etc. -__-
OHKO moves are banned IIRC...
It was a few weeks ago and u can ask crytal moogle who told me that ohko moves arent banned atm -_-
They were technically but they haven't been claused again on the Gen 5 simulator. If you look carefully, there actually isn't an ohko, evasion, or hax item clause implemented so if you wanted, you could technically go rampant with Double Team, Quick Claw, Kings Rock, etc although people don't because they're either unaware that they actually can or accept that it is broken by implicit agreement.
Actually, on the server, they aren't. If you look closely, there is no direct ohko/evasion/hax item clauses so if you wanted to, technically you could use them...it's just either not noticed (because why should you when it used to automatically be there) and is almost universally accepted as things that aren't allowed.
Edit-Crap double post, didn't notice I already replied.
Listen to this guy. Inconsistent may be a pain to deal with, but at least try Morobareru if it gives you that much trouble. He's a champ and deserves a lot more attention. D:
I hate this fucking trollish ability. But I was lurking around serebii and have come up with an idea! What about this Counter:
Jalorda @ Leftovers / Focus Sash
Pervesity
GASTRO ACID
Leaf Storm
Coil
Dragon Tail / Aerial Ace
Gastro Acid nulifies the effect of inconsistent. If an evasion boost has already been granted, Coil will help Dragon Tail to effectively Phaze it...
Jalorda @ Leftovers / Focus Sash
Pervesity
GASTRO ACID
Leaf Storm
Coil
Dragon Tail / Aerial Ace
Gastro Acid nulifies the effect of inconsistent. If an evasion boost has already been granted, Coil will help Dragon Tail to effectively Phaze it...
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