Lamppost Says Stall Owns

[Lamppost]

Introduction​

With the new generation came new offensive and defensive threats. The rumors were speculating that stall would die thanks to the power creep of mons like onokonusu and shanderaa who boast high base power in their respective stats. But along with these offensive threats came a new plethora of defensive machines.​

When i first started playing b/w i went with the obvious hyper offense team that everybody seems to use. But once i got higher up on the leaderboards i noticed there were more and more stall teams. I decided to take a crack at it and changed my balanced team into a pretty good stall team that you see now.​

I have been pretty succesful with this team so far and i want to see if you guys have any nitpicks or suggestions to help it improve even more. Thanks for reading and the rate!​

changes in Bold

At A Glance​

The Team​

Forretress @ Leftovers
Ability: Sturdy
Ev's:252HP/112Atk/144Def/
Relaxed (+Defence, -Speed)
-Stealth Rock
-Toxic Spikes
-Rapid Spin
-Gyro Ball
Forretress is one of the key members of this team. Without him there would be no Stealth Rocks on the field which is a very important part of a stall team. In generation 5 Sturdy acts like a built-in focus sash, without the sash(derp). I picked stealth rock/spikes over spikes/toxic spikes because nobody else on my team can set up stealth rocks and spikes are more important than toxic spikes IMO. I started out using deoxys-s on this team but found out later that i needed a rapid spinner and forretress was knocking at my door as it does basically the same job as deox. Gyro ball is to hit fast mons hard like kabutops and birijion. I know there could be alternatives here so im subject for change on gyro ball.​

​

Gengar @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Levitate
Ev's: 4HP/252spA/252Spe
Timid (-Attack, +Speed)
Shadow Ball
Focus Blast
Trick
HP Fire

Gengar is the new Spinblocker of my team, i used to have burungeru but he seemed like dead weight other than spin blocking so i swapped him out with this gengar set thanks to the suggestion of Jaroda. Anyways this set can outspace even pokemon in the rain like kabutops and ludicolo, it can't outspeed kingdra, but nattorei deals with him so it's not a problem. I can trick the scarf to rankurusu who is the main threat to my team. He can also revenge kill a lot of the metagame after they have taken damage from my hazards and such. Hp fire deals with Nattorei, focus blast just doesn't do the trick for me on him. Anyways thanks for the set Jaroda it has helped a lot.

Chansey @ Evolution Stone
Ability: Natural Cure
Ev's:252HP/252Def/4Spe/
Bold (-Attack, +Defence)
-Wish
-Protect
-Seismic Toss
-Toxic​

Like i said in my introduction this generation has brought tons of defensive threats to the table. Chansey is a perfect example of this. Once overshadowed by his big brother blissey chansey couldn't make its way up to ou thanks to blissey's superior stats. That is all changed now thanks to a nifty little item called Evolution Stone. Evolution Stone boosts pokemon that aren't at their final evolution special defense and defense stats by 50% each. This item allows chansey to pass blissey in capabilities as a wall. I am using the standard wish+protect set with seismic toss and toxic as chansey has terrible special attack and can't pull off flamethrower or icebeam. This set can pretty much take a hit from any unboosted mon in the metagame on the special side, and almost every mon on the physical side as well. The stalling capabilities of this pokemon is unbelievable and is a great asset to my team. I am thinking of switching this to an aromatherapy set, should i?​

Gyarados @ Leftovers
Ability: Intimidate
Ev's: 252HP/252Def/4spD/
Impish (+Defence, -Special Attack)
-Waterfall
-Dragon Tail
-Sleep Talk
-Rest​

Thanks to gyarados possesing one of the best abilties in the game, intimidate it cant cut opponents attack and help with gyarados's walling/phazing capabilities. The sleep-talk set of gyarados has improved a lot from gen 4. Gyardos gained a handy new move known as Dragon Tail and is essentially the same thing as roar but deals damage. Dragon Tail can be better than roar because it deals damage and hits dragon types pretty hard. A drawback of this move is its 90 accuracy and the fact that it cant phaze someone behind a substitute. That is a huge drawback for me and i don't know if i should change it out for roar or not. I can switch gyarados in on a huge number of pokemon, especially on the physical side and either phaze them away with dragon tail and rack up hazard damage or deal direct damage with waterfall. If someone has a breloom or a sleep inducing pokemon i let gyarados take the hit and sleep talk from there. Gyarados is one of the best and most important members in my team and checks a lot of top ou threats.​

Nattorei @ Leftovers
Ability: Iron Barbs
Ev's: 252HP/60Def/196spD/
Sassy (+Special Defence, -Speed)
-Spikes
-Leech seed
-Protect
-Power Whip​

Nattorei, one of the best new faces of the new generation IMO. Nattorei can take a hit from just about anyone or anything barring certain fire moves. Nattorei has many many resistances and only two weaknesses, fire and fighting. These two weaknesses are covered by by spinblocker, Burungeru. Nattorei is also my secondary spiker after Forretress is dead or nattorei is out. I chose leech seed + Protect to be able to wear down opponents faster and gain more recovery. Power Whip provides minimal coverage but can 2HKO weather pokemon like tyranitar and politoed. Nattorei provides a solid check to rain teams and kingdra. Nattorei is one of the only or maybe the only pokemon that can completely wall kingdra and any set of it. Nattorei is one of the core of my team and has many key resistances that i need in order to win.​

Gliscor @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Poision Heal
Ev's: 252HP/120Atk/138Def/
Impish(+Defence, -Special Attack)
-Protect
-Fling
-Acrobat
-Earthquake​

This is the newly added, and old time member of the team. He walls plenty of pokemon that gyarados can't handle like dory, and can fling his toxic orb at people who resist my toxic spikes to get an extra boost to acrobat. I ran those ev's to give gliscor bulk on both sides. I put 120 attack ev's to get a little more damage in on pokemon like roobushin with acrobat. I didn't run any speed ev's because i don't feel like he needs them, he is a wall and doesn't need to outspeed the metagame. His immunity to electric can be used in good synergy with gyarados as well as his resistance to rock. Gyarados also covers gliscors water weakness, and burungeru covers his 4x ice weakness nicely.

Conclusion​

Thanks for reading guys i hope you like my team. Feel free to rate because all suggestions are appreciated unless of course it's in the form of flaming. And remember, all luvdisks are apreciated :).​

 

[Lamppost]

Threat List

Birijion -The swords dance variant is relatively easy to counter with my gyarados + gliscor, but the calm mind set is a different story. I usally switch into Blissey and toxic stall it and hope for the best.

Blaziken -Highly overrated new pokemon, gyarados counters it with ease, also my new gliscor can take it out with earthquake

Borutorosu -walled by chansey and nattorei

Breloom -This thing is quite annoying, i can take the sleep with gyarados and proceed to sleep talk or switch into glis and acrobat it to death.

Deoxys-S -Can be an annoying lead but i can earthquake + rapid spin to take his precious hazards away

Doryuuzu -Ah dory, Say hello to your counter gyarados and enjoy your -1 attack and a hefty waterfall for a KO. Gliscor also counters this easily, acrobat to break the balloon and eq for thw K0.

Garchomp -Garchomp can be a problem if it has a swords dance up but if not i will just phaze it with gyara or wall it with nattorei and gliscor. If it can get a lucky sand veil + swords dance i might be screwed.

Hihidaruma -flare blitz usually ends up making it commit suicude, but i have plenty of fire resists

Kingdra -Nattorei stops it even in the rain, it never had a chance.

Latios -blissey + toxic stall. Switch in on a draco meteor and it is usally forced to switch out while i wish my health back.

Lucario -walled by burungeru + will-o-wisp ,gyardos, and gliscor.

Magnezone -annoying and can trap nattorei so i have to be careful if i see it in the team preview (double switcheroo)

Ononokusu -nattorei says hi, nattorei walls this guy nicely especially when he is locked into outrage.

Randorosu -this thing is annoying too, i usually leech seed with nattorei drawing in the eq, then switch to gyarados and get the attack drop and proceed to stall/waterfall. or switch into gliscor if it doesnt have hp ice.

Rankurusu -i usually just phaze it out til the end of the game, This is probably the biggest threat of my team, i dont really have a true counter other than chansey.

Roobushin -gyarados walls this too easy, and if he is dead gliscor does the same.

Scizor -a lot of my pokemon wall it, but the cb set + u-turn is really annoying

Starmie -My enemy is this noob, it has rapid spin and can t-bolt my burungeru for 2x damage, too bad burungeru has shadow ball! hahahaha

Tyranitar -forretress can kill with gyro ball along with a lot of my team.

Defensive Threats

Blissey -Leech seed takes away like 25% of its health + toxic stall. I phaze it out a lot to rack up hazard damage.

Chansey -annoying, but i can eventually power through him with spikes+ toxic. Pretty much the same way i deal with blissey, just a little bulkier.

Erufuun - leech seed makes me cry with mischevious heart, but it cant really hurt me since i have nattorei and gliscor + acrobat can take it out.

Forretress -Any special attack can pretty much 2HKO it

Gliscor -gyardos + burungeru

Nattorei -really really really annoying to my team but my hazards end up killing it usually, and then i can clean up the kill with gliscor late game.

Porygon2 -easy to kill, bolt-beam doesnt do much to my team

Skarmory -Cant do anything to my team other than set up spikes which are spun away

Tentacruel -No, other than t-spikes and rapid spin which are spun away by me and his spinning is blocked by burungeru

Vuljiina -really annoying as well, i usally just phaze it out or try and get a toxic up on it

 

[elDino]

Hey this is a pretty decent team, that walls around 90% of the metagame. There are a few slight problems though.
1. No Toxic Spikes; (weak to stall).
2. Too many threats are countered by Gyarados.
3. Sandstorm Teams.

1.

This one is an easy fix and you should realise that on a heavy stall team, Toxic Spikes are a necessity as they deal with opposing stall teams and they also help stall to beat threats such as Garchomp and Bulky Calm Minders. You already have two spikers which in my opinion is quite pointless so you can simply just replace Toxic Spikes for Spikes on Forretress. One easy fix made!

2.

This one is also quite easily fixed, in your threat list, over 50% of the opposing threats are countered by Gyarados. This can also be easily fixed by letting some of your other Pokémon counter threats. For example, instead of going straight to Gyarados when an opponent sends out a Blaziken, you can switch into Burungeru and avoid having your Gyarados taking heavy damage from a Stone Edge. Also, you must keep your Gyarados healthy as it is your only check to Doryuuzu, and a shaky one at that. On the whole, just remember not to switch in your Gyarados recklessly and remind yourself that you have six Pokémon on your team, not just one.

3.

Finally, a quite a large weakness that your team has is to Sandstorm teams. Since they pack multiple strong Physical attackers with Rock type moves, your main Physical wall, Gyarados, won't be taking on any of those Pokémon. Although you may say that Nattorei can effectively wall most of these threats, Sandstorm teams commonly carry many checks to Nattorei, for example MixTar and FireFang Chomp. A team with Tyranitar, Garchomp, Randorosu, Doryuuzu, Terakion and a fillers would run through this team thanks to their massive attack stats and their great STAB moves. Of course, the easiest way to counter a Sandstorm team is to get rid of the sandstorm. Now you may think that there is no room for a weather changer on your team and I agree of course. However, you could easily fit a weather move on this team and this would severely hamper a sandstorm (and all weathers) team's ability to cause some serious damage against this team. I would like to suggest this:

Nattorei @ Leftovers
Ability: Iron Barbs
Ev's: 252HP/60Def/196spD/
Sassy (+Special Defence, -Speed)
-Spikes
-Leech seed
-Sunny Day
-Power Whip

Now you may say this is quite strange due to Sunny Day amplifying Nattorei's main weakness but to be honest, it wasn't surviving any fire moves anyway. This destroys Sandstorm as Nattorei can easily switch in on any Sandstorm sweeper that is due to set up and also Rain teams, which this team also has some troubles with. Nattorei will now 4x resist water moves, making it the perfect check to even Kingdra, who can 3HKO Nattorei in the rain with a Specs Boosted Hydro Pump.

Anyways, congratulations on creating a seemingly quite good stall team in the 5th Gen and good luck with it!

 

[--ACT--]

This a pretty solid defensive team you have built here, but I have a few suggestions.

As good as a defensive poke that gyarados is, he frequently falls short due to his pesky SR weakness. The team I laddered used the forre + gyara combo, however I often realized forre certainly did not gaurentee a lack of SR on the field by any means (spin blockers and forre is often deadweight in many situations too). Because his ability to counter dory fully is often hindered, esp since he carries rock slide or stone edge (still hurts even after -1), Gyarados is not as reliable a dory counter.

Another troubling fact is that nattorei itself can do his bidding essentially unhindered on most pokes on your team outside of forre (who he can stall out with leech seed).

A poke I suggest to fix these problems is toxic orb gliscor:

Gliscor@toxic orb
Impish
180HP/196Def/132Att
Taunt
Protect
Ice Fang
Earthquake

This guy walls Dory to hell (even +2 RS can't 3HKO with protect), taunts hazard abusers (like nattorei), and provides support against blaziken, breeloom, SD chomp, ttar and many other dangerous offensive pokes. Also I saw that randorosu gives this team a bit of trouble which this gliscor can handle (not HP ice variants however).

Personally I use both restalk gyara and the gliscor you see above on my current team. They work excellently together as physical walls with the taunt + Dragon Tail combo

The only poke I could see replacing is gyara at this point for gliscor. While this does take away phazing, it provides a lot more sweeper protection. Try testing him out and seeing how he fits in.

Good luck!

 

[Nosferalto]

Forretress definitely wants Toxic Spikes > Spikes. Nattorei is already setting up Spikes, which is redundant and unnecessary. TS gives your team a useful weapon to combat opposing stall-oriented teams that seem to be problematic, limiting the time every foe can stay in, obliging it to switch-out and take damage from entry hazards. Currently, threats such as Terakion, Garchomp, MixTar, Roobushin (especially if it's the last Pokemon) and many other offensive wall-breakers can be problematic. Most of them are affected by TS, so adding this move will be a crucial to deal with a variety of defensive and offensive threats.

I'm going to second Gliscor over Gyarados. Looking at your threat list, I agree that Gyarados's job seems overloaded when it has to switch-in and deal with all of those threats, with no reliable means of recovery but Rest and the SR weakness. Gliscor would provide a solid physical wall and a surefire Doryuzuu counter as well as a check to most TTar variants and Fighting-types that trouble this team such as Teriakon, Roobushin and Zuruzikin. You do lose a Fire typing but Latias and Burungeruu already cover those attacks. I'm going to recommend a different set though, to deal with Fighting types more effectively:

Gliscor @ Toxic Orb | Impish | 252 HP / 200 Def / 56 Spe
Earthquake / Fling / Protect / Acrobat

As for minor changes, consider Gyro Ball over Protect on Nattorei. Gyro Ball provides a secondary STAB move, to hit things like TTar, Garchomp, Sazandora, Lati@s. Protect is a decent move, but Gyro Ball has too much utility to not be used IMO.

Other than that, this is a well constructed stall team, so I'm going to give your RMT a Luvdisc, gl.

 

[The Main]

Hi Lamppost, nice team you have. Looks like StallBreaker Bait. I will start rating your Pokes one by one. Here is it:
Oh and your threat list is not very correct, such as the fact that Chansey walls Borutosu. WTF -_____- And SD Variants of Birijions are noob, its the CM Birijions that screws you to hell. Ok lets get to it.
Forretress: Straight off the analyses without thinking I presume (no offense) Change Gyro Ball to EQ, it dents alot of things, I.E. Terakion, Blaziken, Magnezone, Heatran, and stuff like that. Dump the Attack EVs into Defense, your team is extremely weak on the physical spectrum. And most importantly, replace Spikes with Toxic Spikes, you already have a hardcore Spiker.

Burungeru: Please. Stop. Investing. Offensive. Stats. On. Defensive. Pokes. If. They. Don't. Secure. OHKOs/2HKOs. Use Boiling Water, and you could replace Shadow Ball with Hail to screw unsuspecting players, but you could keep it, its just a suggestion, nice idea to smack Lati@s that will never come in hard; and I am getting the impression that you are blindly slapping Analyses onto a team and expecting people to fix it for you.

Chansey: Nothing to say about it, glad that someone stopped using Blissey. If you replace Spikes with Toxic Spikes, scrap of Toxic and replace it with Aromatherapy, your team is extremely vulnerable to status.

Gyarados: Nice set, its quite good, prepare for Boroturusu 4-0 your team. Totally no sarcasm. Seriously that will happen.

Nattorei: Why run Sassy if there is no Gyro Ball?

Latias: I don't see what can Latias do on a stall team without supportive moves. It lacks the punch to destroy Stall Breakers. Yeah, You need the resistance, maybe try Specs Tios? DM destroys Rankurusu instantly.

 

[Lamppost]

elDino:
1. changes spikes for toxic spikes, i had them before but i changed them for some reason.

2. I don't always just switch into gyarados for every threat it covers, i wasn't really sure how to do the threat list, im going to re-make it with my top threats instead of all those.

3.My team isn't really weak to sandstorm, i havent had any problems with them. Even though gyarados is weak to rock it is easy to come in on an earthquake and get the attack drop, it's all in the prediction, also thanks for the nattorei set but i dont think im a big fan of having a weather slot on a pokemon. Even if i use it nattorei will take a big hit from dory and then they can just switch back to tyranitar and set ss back up.

Act:
I am not going to change my gyarados sorry. He is probably the most important member of my team, i will try a gliscor set but i might switch up the ev's and moves a little bit. I've used one before but i switched it with latias. I will give it another shot.

Nosferalto:

Thanks, im going to keep gyarados as he is essential to my team and take out latias because i dont really need him to help the stall. He was just a filler with a few resistances i wanted. I'm changing gyro ball on nattorei for protect, thanks.


The Main:
I changed forretress to have eq.

Changed the ev's on burungeru to max hp/ max spd

Im keeping toxic as there are flying pokemon who resist toxic spikes/spikes

what do you mean prepare for boroturusu to 4-0 my team? wtf.

I run sassy, and most other people do too because nattorei already has useless speed and the spd boost is good, also i changed it to gyro ball already.

Changing latias for gliscor now.

Thanks for the rates guys really appreciate them

 

[Jaroda]

He means that with just Taunt, Thunderbolt and HP Ice Borotorosu can destroy everyone bar Chansey. If it has Focus Blast it can attack Nattorei as well.

I think your team is pretty good overall. Only pokemon I can recommend substituting is Burungeru but only because aside from spin blocking it isn't terribly great. I think if you use a Choice Scarf/Specs Gengar with Trick you can severely cripple any one pokemon that might severely threaten your team like a Shinpora or Rankurusu for instance. You'll also have one pokemon with some immediate attack power and speed that can reliably revenge kill certain foes.

Gengar@Choice Scarf/Specs
Timid 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spd
Shadow Ball
Focus Blast
Trick
HP Fire/Thunderbolt

Scarf also helps you against Latios.

Good luck.

 

[Firenze]

I would suggest using a different gliscor set:

Gliscor (M) @ Toxic Orb
Trait: Poison Heal
EVs: 252 HP / 236 Def / 20 Spd
Impish Nature (+Def, -SAtk)
- Swords Dance
- Earthquake
- Facade
- Taunt

This set will help a lot against other stall teams while still being able to counter Roopushin (Drain Punch Does ~10%, Stone Edge does 22-26% and it can't bulk up because of taunt) and Dory.

 

[Lamppost]

Good idea jaroda im definately going to try it, thanks a lot.

Also Firenze i don't need any set-up sweepers as it is a stall team and that doesn't really help me out. My set is better for toxic stalling but thanks for the rate i still appreciate the suggestions.

 

[Stunt]

Hmm this looks like a pretty bad stall team.
Once chansey gets tricked/ gets its evo stone knocked off, your team will have no wisher. I'd suggest tabunne over it, but thats just me.

I dont get why forretress has so many attack EVs when its not going to do much damage.
You should invest it more in bulk or else that thing will fall apart in a few hits.

Your team has absolutely no counter to calm mind rankurusu, which could destroy your team after 1 calm mind. Actually, no counter to anything setting up in general.

And as pointed out before, your team is completely weak against opposing stall teams as well. Your anti-spinner being weak to t-spikes, etc.

 

[Lamppost]

Hmm this looks like a pretty bad stall team.
Once chansey gets tricked/ gets its evo stone knocked off, your team will have no wisher. I'd suggest tabunne over it, but thats just me.

I dont get why forretress has so many attack EVs when its not going to do much damage.
You should invest it more in bulk or else that thing will fall apart in a few hits.

Your team has absolutely no counter to calm mind rankurusu, which could destroy your team after 1 calm mind. Actually, no counter to anything setting up in general.

And as pointed out before, your team is completely weak against opposing stall teams as well. Your anti-spinner being weak to t-spikes, etc.

Ok thanks for the rate, and the contructive criticism? (not) Anyways please don't post on my thread if you have no idea what your talking about and don't suggest anything. I have taken care of the rankurusu problem thanks to jaroda's suggestion. I actually laughed when you said i didnt have a counter to anything that can set-up in general, were you being serious? And then to seal the deal you said my "anti-spinner" is weak to t-spikes "etc" this shows me yet again you don't know what your talking about since you called it a "anti-spinner" and fyi i changed him for gengar.

Please don't post on my thread again if you don't have anything contructive to say.

 

[masterful]

Just a couple things:
You might want to carry a taunter in case of a set-up sweeper being the last poke or to counter other stall teams. Also, I don't like the fact that Gyara is your only fire resist, especially because of the crippling weakness to SR. I don't see him lasting long enough to protect your team from all the threats only he can cover.

 

[Lamppost]

Well forry has rapid spin so Stealth rock is never a problem, who do you think i could fit taunt on?

Also since most fire moves are special chansey can eat them up if needed

 

[masterful]

Well forry has rapid spin so Stealth rock is never a problem, who do you think i could fit taunt on?

Also since most fire moves are special chansey can eat them up if needed

I'd suggest maybe putting taunt and Gyara in place of Dragon Tail and switching out Nattorei for a Skarmory if you really need a phazer, and btw, when your team is getting ravage by something like Blaziken or Infernape, your Forry won't be able to do much of anything. I can tell you from experience that not having taunt on a stall team can result in some pretty bad situations

 

[Lamppost]

If i took out Dragon Tail it would kind of kill the set dont you think?

Im thinking of switching gliscor for eruufun so i can encore set-up sweepers and leech seed + toxic with mischevious heart.

 

[masterful]

If i took out Dragon Tail it would kind of kill the set dont you think?

Im thinking of switching gliscor for eruufun so i can encore set-up sweepers and leech seed + toxic with mischevious heart.

Swapping Taunt for DT wouldn't really hurt its ability to counter set-up physical sweepers, and would keep your team from being beaten by other stall teams (to an extent).

 

[Jaroda]

You're welcome. Glad I could help.

I'm actually going to agree with Firenze. While I love Acrofling Gliscor because you're using a stall team you might benefit from his set with Taunt. This way you can keep Gyarados unchanged and Nattorei's useful water resist. You can probably swap Sword Dance out for Protect though if you want to get free healing and stall better.