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np: OU Suspect Testing Round 2 - Who am I to break tradition?
- Thread starter Philip7086
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Standard ou
Problem is it really needs sun, so you have to use Ninetales which is 100x worse than Politoed/tyranitar
Problem is it really needs sun, so you have to use Ninetales which is 100x worse than Politoed/tyranitar
I didn't say the guy was wrong. However, I am saying that his argument was irrelevant. By using his logic, I could say that Octillery is not broken because it was fine last Gen. But that would be wrong. It's not about who's right. It's about WHY they're right.
Then you are right for this point. You cannot ban something basing arguments on previous gens. But there are multiple different reasons why Drizzle should be banned.
The thing about Drizzle is that the only "counters" are Wobbuffet in tandem with another weather.
The only checks are Scarfs on incredibly high-speed pokemon. But a Scarf serves NO other purpose on such already-fast pokemon.
And sadly, Nattorei does not mean that you aren't rain-weak.
I think everyone's overreacting yet again like Inconsistent last round, but this time with Rain. Yes, it is powerful, yes it is a tough strategy to defeat, but if you think outside the box you can find ways to beat it. My current team (I haven't tested it a whole lot so hopefully I don't jynx it) handles Rain pretty well, almost effortlessly. Rain used to cause panic everytime I saw it but not so much anymore. I wouldn't say the team is over centralized (a stupid term) to beat Rain either, but if Rain is a big part of the metagame, then it makes sense to prepare for it. Rain is looking more and more OU to me every game.
Hmm you may be on to something. Perhaps most of the popular OU pokemon are just weak to rain. Perhaps if more people looked for more obscure pokes to use, it wouldn't be that bad....?
But theres one thing ur a little wrong about....if something is powerful and tougher to beat than anything else, its usually banned. It gives the user an edge that nothing else in the game has and requires your opponent to try harder than using a normal strategy.
Meh, I don't think rain broken. I just think it's hard to deal with.
Speaking of which, has anyone noticed a recent increase in the use of Specs Latios? I see one every other battle now.
edit: I'm normally on at like, 1 am and it's nearly impossible to find people with ratings near mine then. I end up with battles that raise or lower by 50 or more. It's screwing me up.
Kyogre was banned for a reason as well... why? - In 4th Gen?
Its base stats were monstrous, and was unfit for OU. Politoed cannot compare to Kyogre and the only reason it would hit OU was the godlike ability - Drizzle.
I think someone posted this but let me say this - Skarmory and Blissey was used in 4th gen A WHOLE LOT. It was difficult to counter and you will think twice before throwing a electric, fire or any special moves at Blissey. You will cross your head as Skarmory rampages. Weren't they too a little difficult to handle? Using good prediction, you MAY destroy them why not with Politoed?
ScarfLandLos explosion OHKOS a Politoed or it might have a silver of HP left. In DW OU you merely destroy that Toad and switch the weather.
Prove me wrong if you must.
Its base stats were monstrous, and was unfit for OU. Politoed cannot compare to Kyogre and the only reason it would hit OU was the godlike ability - Drizzle.
I think someone posted this but let me say this - Skarmory and Blissey was used in 4th gen A WHOLE LOT. It was difficult to counter and you will think twice before throwing a electric, fire or any special moves at Blissey. You will cross your head as Skarmory rampages. Weren't they too a little difficult to handle? Using good prediction, you MAY destroy them why not with Politoed?
ScarfLandLos explosion OHKOS a Politoed or it might have a silver of HP left. In DW OU you merely destroy that Toad and switch the weather.
Prove me wrong if you must.
So basically,everyone would need to carry something to sacrifice itself and then something to change the weather....What?
Doesn't seem too bad to me yet, what set in particular?
Showing that a Randorosu's explosion KOs a Toad, if your REALLY that desperate to destroy the Toad. He is not hard to work around with.
We had sacrifice leads before - Azelf in 4th gen is a perfect example.
We had sacrifice leads before - Azelf in 4th gen is a perfect example.
How about so we can test it next round in a metagame without Drizzle? Contrary to what most people seem to believe, Manaphy doesn't make Drizzle broken, it's the other way around. Drizzle is broken with or without Manaphy, hell Manaphy isn't even close to being the most dangerous abuser. Drizzle enables teams to utilize an army of powerful swift swimmers to rip through teams that aren't specifically built to counter it, while Manaphy, outside of Drizzle, is very borderline and deserves a separate test.
Gosh, why do people keep using this same arguement, again, and again, and again.
Not everybody absolutely needs to use that strategy to win. It's just a suggestion.
It's like me saying "Oh, Magneton can help get rid of Skarmory", and then someone chiming in and saying "Oh, so now every single teams needs to use a Magneton?"
No... that's not what he's saying. He's saying it is possible to take out the weather starter (though you will need some way to change the weather still) If you wanna slap nerfed explosion on something go right ahead. I'll just take out politoed w/ something else.
It's not that,but with so little things actually stopping rain,people would have to do this.
Seriously,what can stop rain without being useless?
1.The explosion strategy
2.Hail Tentacrual
3.Another weather team
Not many options there.
Locopoke brings up an interesting point here. Is Manaphy the main reason why Drizzle is so common, or are there any other factors? I agree with Loco to a degree. It is the combination of fearsome Swift Swim sweepers like Kingdra and Kabutops as well as Manaphy that make rain a pain in the ass to deal with, not just one Pokemon alone.
However, I still think Manaphy can be a threat even outside of the rain. Instant access to +3 Special Attack is nothing to be laughed at. It is true that having 108 base speed sets the benchmark for this generation and that means Manaphy will be outspeed, but a good team would either have Twave'd or killed them off before sending out Manaphy.
Manaphy has little to do with rain being common >____> Rain is common because you have pokemon that get +2 speed, get extra stab on their already great coverage attacks, and then proceed to kick ass because they all have the same general counters. sounds pretty appealing to me; i'd run it without manaphy (although i like rain with cm manaphy). i find cm manaphy more troubling than tail glow in rain, and tail glow more troubling outside of it; but i still find it to be a top threat regardless. very borderline.
however, you can't say 'a good team would have twave'd or killed off threats to manaphy before sending it out' because i could paralyze fast pokemon and kill off threatening pokemon and get an easy [pokemon here] sweep. i'd put it more as 'i don't see a lot of non-choice scarf pokemon that are running faster than manaphy currently besides swift swimmers, so while manaphy can be outsped i'm not seeing a lot of pokemon in the meta outspeeding it currently, making it tougher to deal with!' which is how i see it, anyway.
Your forgetting a few things
Natt/Buru combo - natt walls kingdra (and others) to hell while buru (or another ghost or even zapdos) can take ludicolos focus blasts
Mischevious heart users can revenge (counter if sashed) and cripple many pokes.
that's what I thought of in 2 seconds. Just put some thought into it. be creative.
There is no such thing as 'Ubers Material' Just because a pokemon is or isn't viable in any particular higher tier doesn't justify it's tiering. Otherwise, Forretress and Blissey would be banned, they function just as well in Ubers as they do in OU. And besides, by your logic Politoed shouldn't be banned, obviously it is outclassed by Kyogre even more completely than Mence is by Rayquaza.
Why is everyone against letting rain survive even just for a week or two? Suspect is going really, really fast, and BW might be the first generation where this isn't desirable. Due to Dream World releases, I doubt we will ever be able to create a stable Standard metagame for more than a month or two. In my opinion, we should dump Manaphy this round, which I believe is Uber with or without Drizzle Support, and just sit and wait. IIRC, Suspect processes only began a month ago, and already, we've gotten a lot more than I thought we would. Just let Rain speak it's piece before we decide.
Ludicolo alone breaks Natt/Buru with Energy Ball and Focus Blast.
MH mons will cripple 1 mon before dying since aside from Erufuun,they aren't very bulky.
It's not just putting some though.
I can have can MH mon with Sunny Day and that wont change anything unless Politoed dies,something an MH mon can't do very well.
It doesn't matter if you cripple toed,he just needs to switch in,while you can only shorten his life span as he powers up his whole team.
Magnezone can trap and kill Nattorei, while Ludicolo walks all over Burungeru. How do Mischievous Heart Taunts stop Rain sweepers? Granted, Borutorosu's Thunder Wave can slow down one sweeper, but then it dies horribly.
for what it's worth, i simply do not see how you guys can ban manaphy and drizzle at once. if you have strong reason that drizzle is totally broken, then ban only drizzle.
has manaphy been used enough outside of the rain this generation that you guys are confident he is broken without rain? has he been used at all outside of the rain this gen??
for what it's worth, a clever sun team can be successful against rain. two chlorophyll users to resist water, sun abusers like arcanine that can hit hard with priority moves... a bulky ninetails to get it sunny at the right times...
you also have to play the mindgame well. hide ninetails, try to pick off their politoed early in the match, then bring in the sun and sweeeeeep.
has manaphy been used enough outside of the rain this generation that you guys are confident he is broken without rain? has he been used at all outside of the rain this gen??
for what it's worth, a clever sun team can be successful against rain. two chlorophyll users to resist water, sun abusers like arcanine that can hit hard with priority moves... a bulky ninetails to get it sunny at the right times...
you also have to play the mindgame well. hide ninetails, try to pick off their politoed early in the match, then bring in the sun and sweeeeeep.
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