What aren't we writing about? (Pokemon unfit for OU Analyses)

GtM said:
Non-STABed Fire attacks don't break his sub, not sure if his typing really matters after that. Walrein is also weak to Fighting, so that's irrelevant. Sub/Protect in Hail is reliable enough, and all of his major weaknesses are physical, suiting him to a special wall.
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as a special wall hes pretty outclassed, and we aren't taking about hail stall (which if we are then he is obviously the new stallrein with ice body)

It's easy to switch you sweeper into a...Thunder Wave. Regice was OU in Advance for a good reason.
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adv ou has noo relevance on BW ou, i never played advanced but apparently that gen was mostly stall with restalkers, which regice could do no doubt about it.

also what do u even mean when you say east to switch you sweeper into a thunderwave? no sweeper unless they are ground type or have a thunder immunity like to switch into a twave, it kind of like ruins their sweep.
 
I'd like to vouch for adding electivire and weavile to the list.

Let's list each's advantages and disadvantages:

Electivire:
+
Useful coverage moves
Cool albeit hard to use ability
-
Lackluster defences, lack of resistances
Nothing but attacks (no setup move bar the awful Meditate)
Slow in relation to the threats of OU

Weavile
+
Speed and Ice Shard

-
Everything else
 
Scarfwynaut said:
Lets face it, people will be using them a lot, like last gen they will become OU becuase of usage.
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There is no telling how much they will be used this generation, you know.

Weavile is almost done, so I don't think it should be booted out right now. It still has it's high Speed and Attack. Its flaws are considerable though, we should see what will happen in the future.

Electivire, I don't know. I never saw one at any stage of B/W, so I don't know good it is. Weavile might be easier to use because of its characteristic's. Electivire seems almost like 100% prediction is needed to play it at all.
 
Weavile at least has great Speed off the bat and Attack to compliment it. Ice Shard is also a boon to revenge the genies. I really fail to see what good Electrevire does considering that without the Motor Drive boost, he's pretty much dead weight.
 
Weavile has its merits what with psychics and dragon pokemon running everywhere this gen but Electivire really has no merit in OU at all. I honestly don't think its strong enough, fast enough, or even versatile enough to contend with any big threat in OU and would also like to vote for it to be added on the list of pokemon not viable for OU.
 
Actually Electrivire got a boost with Wild Bolt, giving him a physical 90 BP Electric attack and allowing him to use his 120 Base Attack. For him that a pretty big deal, due to the fact that he doesn't need to use the weak Thunderpunch anymore. He could probably use a Choice Scarf set now. And then there's the fact that he has awesome coverage with Cross Chop and the others Elemental Punches.

Weavile is frail as hell and dies to any priority attack, but it's got a niche for being able to revenge kill Dragons with STAB Ice attacks and using STAB Pursuit in conjuction with 120 Base Attack and 125 Speed. No-one else can do that.

I don't expect either of these guys to be top tier material, but they do take up some useful roles.

EDIT: Oh crap ninja'd by three people.
 
I'm a bit biased, but why is Probopass on the list?

The 1st page pointed out that Level 2 Sturdy Pain Split Probopass can be potent as a late game checkmate with simple Sandstorm and Toxic Spikes support. Keep in mind that Sandstorm is very prominent, even more since the banning of Drizzle + Swift Swim.

It was clearly acknowledged that you mistook their suggestion of removing it from the list since you were unaware of the Level 2 Sturdy Probopass set... There is a link in my signature detailing my invention of the set, which was backed by many of the badged members of Smogon.

Magic Coat reflects Taunt, while Protect scouts/Heals/stalls SST damage, Pain Split cuts the foe's HP 50% pretty much each turn due to its low level (it has 14 HP max), while you regain full HP and therefore re-activate Sturdy.

The last slot is either Taunt or Torment... Taunt works especially well against Roar, Whirlwind, Trick Room, and stat-up moves. It also forces foes to attack, making its Pain Split a safe choice since you wont mis-predict when to use it.

Torment can, however, work against any foe regardless of whether the move deals direct damage, and really takes advantage of Protect, notably against Choiced foes.

here is the set for reference:

Here is a propossed Probopass set, remember, prediction is key, especially with Magic Coat. I put in Bold the reason for each choice of item, EVs, IVs and moves

Set Name: Pain Stall
Probopass: @ Leftovers [Hail / Stealth Rock negation]
Ability: Sturdy
EVs, & IVs: 0, & 0. [Probopass has 14 HP; 1 layer of Spikes/Leech Seed/Burn = 1 damage not 2 so it's negated by Leftovers without Protect. 5 Speed =Trick Room abuse]
Nature: (+ SpA, -Spe) [Trick Room ulities]

~Magic Coat [Reflects: Leech Seed, W-o-w, Swagger, etc.]
~Pain Split [Hurts foes, heals user; keeps Sturdy active]
~Protect / Toxic [Protect scouts and stalls for free Leftovers which helps vs Stealth Rocks; Toxic causes damage and switches]
~Torment / Taunt [Torment handles Choiced foes, especially with Protect; Taunt is Anti-Heal, Whirlwind, Roar, Trick Room, etc.]
 
Probo is way too much of a gimmick of a pokemon to be considered for OU, and one viable set doesn't exactly help his case. Sure sturdy pain split is fine and all but what with all the very prominent hazard users and status pokemon and the such I can't really see it having any real use. Not to mention sub is everywhere this gen and that makes Probo pure dead weight. It's a fine set but it relies entirely on prediction and if you miss predict once then the whole set becomes dead weight. This is before mentioning lots of pokemon can use him as set up fodder and force you to stop going for pain split so they don't get to +6. (Lucario would love to stay in on probopass and get to +6, so would bisharp, and so would scizor)

Keep it to a low key pokemon just like fear aron is. They work great and are fun gimmicks but at the end of the day that's all they really are. Gimmicks.
 
Have you tested Probopass like I have?

With a Steel trapper like Dugtrio, Magnezone, etc., it's not that scared of the rest of the team...

Can't a Probopass use a Taunt on the foe, and Pain Split it until the Sandstorm and / or Toxic damage make it die? Stalling is made easy. Or better yet, Pain Split the switch-in as they take entry hazard damage and come in at less than 50% health.

Status Pokemon are dealt with by Magic Coat unless its from a move like Scald, and entry hazards don't pose a problem if Probopass comes in on a non-damaging move. If Stealth Rock and a layer of Spikes are on Probopass' field, it can come in, heal the Stealth Rocks damage at the end of the turn, then Protect to heal off the layer of Spikes. Sturdy will be reactivated, and it can function from then.

Probopass can effectively take on completely threatening offensive foes, such as Scarf Chandera, and Ulgamoth, that some walls have no way of dealing with.


As for the issue of the foe using "Substitute" : Let's say I lead with a SR Hippowdon, and have 1 layer of Toxic Spikes (works just as well as 2 layers).

Annhialator Zero said:
Despite Sub destroying this set, wtih residual damage it becomes hard to do.
For example, if you're using this set you will almost certainly have SR and Sandstorm, hopefully Toxic Spikes as well.
So opponent switches in, takes 25% from SS+SR+TS (More if they're SR weak). Next turn they set up Sub, that+SS+TS = 44%. They attack you next turn, only to lose 25%. So they'll be left on 6%. Even with Leftovers they're on 25%, and Toxic Spikes will kill them next turn, which they'll be using taking out your Probopass (Although you'd switch out Probo after the Sub went up).
Obviously something with a typing like Flygon is OK, as it's immune to T Spikes and SS, but other Sub users would be hard pressed to beat this thing.
Of course it can be beaten with prediction but it could stall pretty well if played smartly.
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In this case let's assume Probopass uses Magic Coat on the switch-in (does nothing). Let's assume Probopass uses Pain Split on the turn Substitute is used (does nothing). Let's assume Probopass uses Protect on the turn the foe attacks (nothing happens). Then on the 4th turn in battle Probopass can simply switch out or try for a 50% Protect (say Probopass is the final Pokemon on my team)... either way Probopass will be safe because even if he doesn't switch, Sturdy will save him, and he will survive at 2 HP (Lefties), while the foe has just fainted. Remember, this is assuming Probopass has not used Taunt or Pain Split on the foe's switch-in, giving this a worst case scenario, but still a guaranteed victory.
 
why doesn't victreebel get an analysis. I've been running a sun team for a while now and he is easily the biggest threat on the team. 150 base power fire move is very nice compared to the 105 base power hidden powers many chlorophyll sweepers have. sure his bulk is an issue, but at least he has a resistance to mach punch, unlike shiftry who has nearly as bad bulk with a fighting weakness.
 
Because victreebel is easily walled even with its decent attack due to bad stab and really doesn't have the best coverage in the world within its movepool. That's before even mentioning that if its sun ever gets removed it is effectively complete dead weight.
 
Majora_younglink said:
Because victreebel is easily walled even with its decent attack due to bad stab and really doesn't have the best coverage in the world within its movepool. That's before even mentioning that if its sun ever gets removed it is effectively complete dead weight.
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most chlorophyll users are dead weight without sun, you have to keep it alive. and set of:
-growth
-giga drain
-weather ball
-hp ice
is walled only by heatran in the sun i believe.
it has a grass stab that every grass type has, which while not very good is not a reason to say victreebel itself is a bad poke.
 
Aerodactyl Legend said:
Venusaur outclasses it as a sun sweeper. He's faster, bulkier, and has a few more options in his movepool.
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ok i get hes faster and bulkier, but what more options dooes venasaur have. venasaurs use growth, hp fire, energy ball, eq, sludge bomb, and sleep powder.

victreebel has growth, eq, and sleep powder also. he has giga drain which is better than energy ball and weather ball which in the sun, where you will be using both of them, is better than hp fire. sludge bomb is also a terrible move for coverage, and im pretty sure victreebel also has this move....

also i give him the exact same spread as shell break cloyster, who has the exact same speed. with growth and chlorophyll he is practically getting a shell break boost, and with more special attack than cloyster has attack, he can be very dangerous. i've been using a sun team lately and he is the best sweeper on that team for a while now, so i guess this is my arguement
 
premboy95 said:
ok i get hes faster and bulkier, but what more options dooes venasaur have. venasaurs use growth, hp fire, energy ball, eq, sludge bomb, and sleep powder.

victreebel has growth, eq, and sleep powder also. he has giga drain which is better than energy ball and weather ball which in the sun, where you will be using both of them, is better than hp fire. sludge bomb is also a terrible move for coverage, and im pretty sure victreebel also has this move....

also i give him the exact same spread as shell break cloyster, who has the exact same speed. with growth and chlorophyll he is practically getting a shell break boost, and with more special attack than cloyster has attack, he can be very dangerous. i've been using a sun team lately and he is the best sweeper on that team for a while now, so i guess this is my arguement
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Over Giga drain wouldn't you rather take Power Whip as it plays on Victreebel's slightly higher attack stat?

I think more then Victreebel's lack of defensive stat bulk, what hurts it more is the identical typing. Even as, say, just a pure grass type, U could conceivably carry stockpile and swallow/spit up.
 
dende5416 said:
Over Giga drain wouldn't you rather take Power Whip as it plays on Victreebel's slightly higher attack stat?

I think more then Victreebel's lack of defensive stat bulk, what hurts it more is the identical typing. Even as, say, just a pure grass type, U could conceivably carry stockpile and swallow/spit up.
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well i'm talking about a special sweeper, but he does make a good point, with a set of:
-growth
-power whip
-eq
-weather ball

he has a stronger stab move than venasaur, and a stronger coverage move for nattorei in weather ball.

edit: whops sorry was thinking of another pokemon for eq.
 
premboy95 said:
well i'm talking about a special sweeper, but he does make a good point, with a set of:
-growth
-power whip
-eq
-weather ball

he has a stronger stab move than venasaur, and a stronger coverage move for nattorei in weather ball.
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I love Victreebel, still my favorite Grass-type, but...when's it gonna get the chance to do Growth with underwhelming defenses? In addition, it can't learn Earthquake.

It looks good on paper, but I don't see it working well in OU.
 
Uhm....

Why don't speak about Entei? Its like combine Darmanitan, Arcanine and Typhlosion in one.

Is faster than Darmanitan and Arcanine, and have a good bulk and Attack like them.

Also can use Flare Blitz, Flame Charge, ExtremeSpeed, Stone Edge, even Bulldoze can be used to deal a good damage.

But unlike the other two, it can use a powerful Eruption, tying with Typhlosion in Speed.

Calm Mind when you force a switch and destroy things with Eruption.

Also, it have Flash Fire from Dream World, like Typhlosion.

I mean, Entei plays much like that Fire-type Pokémon.

See ya.
 
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