I've been spamming Drought on the ladder a bit, and I'm not sure if it's broken, but it's really, REALLY good. I got to #16 with a random sun team, if that means anything. Basically the only way to beat it is with another weather-and Hail is pretty easy to beat with Sun. I don't want this ending up like OU.
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np: UU Suspect Test Round 1 - Sunny Days
- Thread starter JabbaTheGriffin
- Start date
- Status
soul_survivor
VGCPL Champion
Seems that UU is already better than 4th gen OU.
Focus
Ubers Tester Extraordinaire
I am echoing the sentiment that it is way WAY too early to be considering banning something. At the moment, the metagame is very chaotic. Drought is good but not amazingly overpowering so far IMO. Let's wait a a few weeks to see what the metagame looks like, and let's not rush to judgments. Drought, Victini, Kyurem, Mew, Abomasnow, and everything else I can think of can be reasonably handled by at least SOME obscure checks. In other words, no bans for another month.
Edit: eh, forgot about Shell Smash and Baton Pass. I cannot think of really reliable counters to those... However, my opinion is still unchanged.
Edit: eh, forgot about Shell Smash and Baton Pass. I cannot think of really reliable counters to those... However, my opinion is still unchanged.
Think Stall is good with Cresselia, Deo-D, and Suicune?
Let's get this party started, then. Again, not sure how often I'll be able to ladder, but I'm really hoping that I can get a good taste of prototype UU :)
Here to post that SubRoost Zapdos is incredibly broken in this metagame. Looking at its analysis (link below), the only listed counter in UU is Chansey, which gets stalled out by SubRoost Zapdos. Those base stats paired with SubRoost and PPstall either calls for an instaban or an incredibly defensive and stallcentric UU suspect round.
http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=82211
^entirely agreeing. Stalls sooo much for me and is always the MVp of the match (bar a 3 poison type team).
That set is utterly terrifying. I just face a team with it and it was ridiculous was Zapdos couldnt poison it with Deo-D switching in to Taunt him.
Check the sticky for ratings statistics. Anything below Tornadus (#53) us UU.
I noticed, I was just hoping we could get it updated in the OP, since this is the thread to discuss changes.
I just played about 10 games, and I am running into a crap ton of BP. Fortunately, it seems that without something like garchomp to abuse it, it can be handled if prepared.
Haven't run into sun teams yet (I assume they run vulpix). I admit, I am a little uncomfortable with mew in UU, but I think the large number of pokes will balance that out.
Which is why Icicle Spear Mamoswine is awesome.
Here to post that SubRoost Zapdos is incredibly broken in this metagame. Looking at its analysis (link below), the only listed counter in UU is Chansey, which gets stalled out by SubRoost Zapdos. Those base stats paired with SubRoost and PPstall either calls for an instaban or an incredibly defensive and stallcentric UU suspect round.
http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=82211
This is precisely the bullshit that is why there should be no consideration of quickbans.
The only poke I would even consider for a quick ban is Vicini, and I think that is partly because of the sun. But even that I am not seeing much due to the new format, it is incredibly varied =) =) =0 =) =)
I would say let the format sit for another couple of weeks, and at that point, your better off just waiting for the suspect round to end.
I would say let the format sit for another couple of weeks, and at that point, your better off just waiting for the suspect round to end.
If Victini, after having a full month (or whatever duration of time) of chance with V-Create to pull itself up to OU, remains UU, we'll need to worry about its UU status. In the meantime, that seems unnecessary.
I know he will be OU. V-create's late release is the main culprit in why Vicini is so under on the stat charts. With sun being arguably better here than in OU, its use should be quite a lot.
But I do agree with you, there is no reason to rush until the round is over. I was simply implying that his suggestions for emergency ban are silly. A poke that not only has a SR weakness, but a weakness to the most common priority move in the game is probably fine. Maybe BL, but definitely not UU.
Also considering drought's user is prety frail, even with evolite, I think vulpix is fine...
Hm... the likelihood of Victini removing itself from UU could make it a special case.
Perhaps if Victini really turns out to ruin everything, it could be given a special case "suspension" from UU. That is, it gets removed until OU's usage tier updates again. If Victini turns out to be OU after that happens, we remove it from UU and stop worrying about it. If not, we immediately return it to UU, and deal with it from there starting with the next round like any other Pokemon, while keeping in mind that any other tests taking place that round had been thrown off by the change.
However, I don't think it'll come to that. I certainly hope it won't.
Perhaps if Victini really turns out to ruin everything, it could be given a special case "suspension" from UU. That is, it gets removed until OU's usage tier updates again. If Victini turns out to be OU after that happens, we remove it from UU and stop worrying about it. If not, we immediately return it to UU, and deal with it from there starting with the next round like any other Pokemon, while keeping in mind that any other tests taking place that round had been thrown off by the change.
However, I don't think it'll come to that. I certainly hope it won't.
OK you want to tall you my reasons, Nothing can stand in the way of blizzard/draco meteor, most stuff is OHKO by it and do you really want a metagame where one poke can revenge everything, Chansey can wall him all day if special, but with the right support it's impossible to stop, even the mixed set is not possible for her to stop, don't tell me that fighting and rock stop him since wit pure power he kills everything, nothing can swich in if not loosing a bug chuck of health, and not a lot of usefull thing can come an revenge (every steel is 2HKO bar registeel), don't believe me, here are some calcs:
Focus Blast vs 252/4 Bold Chansey 39.2% - 46.3%
Focus Blast vs 252/4 Bold Blissey 42.3% - 49.9%
Draco Meteor vs 252/4 Bold Milotic 78.7% - 92.9%
Draco Meteor vs 252/252 Calm Milotic 58.9% - 69.5%
Ice Beam vs 252/136 Calm Roserade 121.0% - 143.2%
Draco Meteor vs 252/136 Calm Roserade 88.9% - 104.9%
Ice Beam vs 4/252 Adamant Birijion 104.3% - 124.1%
Draco Meteor vs 4/252 Adamant Birijion 76.9% - 90.7%
Focus Blast vs 252/252 Careful Snorlax 55.7% - 65.6%
Focus Blast vs 252/252 Calm Probopass (Sandstorm) 96.3% - 113.6%
Focus Blast vs 252/200 Careful Registeel 65.9% - 78.0%
Draco Meteor vs 4/252 Timid Gardevoir 97.5% - 114.7%
Focus Blast vs 252/252 Calm Tabunne 82.9% - 98.0%
Focus Blast vs 120/252 Careful Umbreon 72.0% - 84.8%
Focus Blast vs 252/216 Sassy Bronzong 42.6% - 50.3%
Draco Meteor vs 252/216 Sassy Bronzong 37.3% - 43.8%
Hidden Power Fire vs 252/252 Sassy Bronzong 53.3% - 62.7%
everything not named chansey/blissey is 2HKOed, i'm using him in stall and he can take hits and dragon tail away, it's verstile and too powerfull to be here (whit cond and the likes gone he can sweep easily), also It only needs 52 HP EVs to have 101 HP subs, meaning it turns Chansey from a stop to set up fodder, making her his bitch without even trying, Kyu can function as a Specs hit and run poke, a scarfed revenger, a bulky sweeper, a mixed LO stall-breaker and a phazer. It has a large amount of options and I don't see any poke that can handle all of them at once.
Focus Blast vs 252/4 Bold Chansey 39.2% - 46.3%
Focus Blast vs 252/4 Bold Blissey 42.3% - 49.9%
Draco Meteor vs 252/4 Bold Milotic 78.7% - 92.9%
Draco Meteor vs 252/252 Calm Milotic 58.9% - 69.5%
Ice Beam vs 252/136 Calm Roserade 121.0% - 143.2%
Draco Meteor vs 252/136 Calm Roserade 88.9% - 104.9%
Ice Beam vs 4/252 Adamant Birijion 104.3% - 124.1%
Draco Meteor vs 4/252 Adamant Birijion 76.9% - 90.7%
Focus Blast vs 252/252 Careful Snorlax 55.7% - 65.6%
Focus Blast vs 252/252 Calm Probopass (Sandstorm) 96.3% - 113.6%
Focus Blast vs 252/200 Careful Registeel 65.9% - 78.0%
Draco Meteor vs 4/252 Timid Gardevoir 97.5% - 114.7%
Focus Blast vs 252/252 Calm Tabunne 82.9% - 98.0%
Focus Blast vs 120/252 Careful Umbreon 72.0% - 84.8%
Focus Blast vs 252/216 Sassy Bronzong 42.6% - 50.3%
Draco Meteor vs 252/216 Sassy Bronzong 37.3% - 43.8%
Hidden Power Fire vs 252/252 Sassy Bronzong 53.3% - 62.7%
everything not named chansey/blissey is 2HKOed, i'm using him in stall and he can take hits and dragon tail away, it's verstile and too powerfull to be here (whit cond and the likes gone he can sweep easily), also It only needs 52 HP EVs to have 101 HP subs, meaning it turns Chansey from a stop to set up fodder, making her his bitch without even trying, Kyu can function as a Specs hit and run poke, a scarfed revenger, a bulky sweeper, a mixed LO stall-breaker and a phazer. It has a large amount of options and I don't see any poke that can handle all of them at once.
I know now that its most effective set is not all offensive, but my point still stands that Kyurem should be given a chance in UU, instead of forcing these early assumptions and bans without even a day of testing.
No Pokemon needs to have a perfect counter, or even a check to all of its sets, in order to not be broken. Therefore, the fact that Kyurem has neither of the two is completely irrelevant.
Yes, Kyurem is powerful. But being broken is an entirely different matter.
Yes, Kyurem is powerful. But being broken is an entirely different matter.
Weee all the good Steels are clumped in OU, while the leftover Dragons still get to reign supreme in UU. Fun times.
Five dragons + Dugtrio/Magneton team, anyone? The only real Steels that can take Outrages and Draco Meteors that aren't completely useless are Registeel, Cobalion, Aggron and Excavalier, who are all handily beaten by other moves anyway. Bisharp is a bit on the frail side.
So basically, Kyurem + Flygon + Kingdra + Altaria + Eviolite Shelgon + Duggy gogogo!
Five dragons + Dugtrio/Magneton team, anyone? The only real Steels that can take Outrages and Draco Meteors that aren't completely useless are Registeel, Cobalion, Aggron and Excavalier, who are all handily beaten by other moves anyway. Bisharp is a bit on the frail side.
So basically, Kyurem + Flygon + Kingdra + Altaria + Eviolite Shelgon + Duggy gogogo!
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