Archeops Discussion

Death Phenomeno

Death Phenomeno

I'm polite so just for clarity, when I'm cross I
is a Contributor Alumnus
It's the curse of Rampardos all over again. Except that this time, it isn't a Pokémon with horrible Speed, but one with a horrible Ability.

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HP: 75
Attack: 140 / ~45
Defence: 65
Special Attack: 112 / ~31
Special Defence: 65
Speed: 110

Ability: Defeatist

[SET]
name: Acrobat Attacker
move 1: Acrobatics
move 2: Earthquake
move 3: Hone Claws
move 4: Stone Edge / Head Smash
item: Flying Gem
nature: Jolly
evs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe

Pros:
- Attacking stats that many would kill for.
- Very fast.
- Good movepool, technically speaking it only lacks Fire Blast and Roost.
- Few things can survive the first Acrobatics, and Head Smash will still hit for good damage after Defeatist kicks in.

Cons:
- Hideous Ability.
- If it survives a hit, it becomes dead weight unless it uses Endeavour.
- The second Acrobatics won't hit as hard, and a miss pretty much equals death.
- Any kind of offensive priority move will ruin it.


Post away!
 
Head Smash is practically a suicide move for Archeops. It will hit harder than anything except its first Acrobatics, and is of a great attacking type. However, for the most part you will become useless after it, so in general Stone Edge is better, sepecially on a Hone Claws set.

Archeops can also run a Choice Band set pretty well, but there it has to rely on Stone Edge or Head Smash as the main STAB.

Additionally, on any set, you could probably use U-Turn. Scouting is always nice, especially so that you know what is coming into it so that next time you don't waste your Flight Gem or your health via Head Smash if you don't need to.
 
The problem I see with Archeops is that it's arguably worse in UU tier. Sure, OU has Scizor and its Bullet punch, but with UU brings really common threats like Mamoswine, Azumarril, Technitop, etc, all of which can severely weaken Archeops.

That being said, it can tear holes if the opponent doesn't have strong priority. However, even Sucker Punches or a couple Fake Outs is all that is needed to make Archeops fodder.
 
Use Archeops as a scouter just make sure you have a spinner and you're set since he can use a choice band and still be faster than most stuff, you have Chiced U-turns way stronger than flygon's and a way to hit in edgequake, he also beneficts for the huge wishes from Chansey (still he's frail so you should bring him into an earthquake or something that won't kill him), i'm looking at a Cofagrigus Combo to remove it's ability (altough i think you're better doing this with slaking)
 
Here's a modification of the set I used in OU to great effect (the original set had HP Ice to kill Gliscor and Focus Blast to punish Ferrothorn switch-ins):

Wallbreaker/Cleaner
Archeops@Flight Gem
Jolly/Naive, Defeatist
252 Atk, 252 Spe
Acrobat
Stone Edge
Earthquake/Earth Power/Focus Blast
Endeavor/U-turn/Knock Off/Taunt/Dragon Pulse

Who needs setup when you're a strong, fast physical cleaner? 3 moves with 100+ base power off of 130 base attack wipes the floor with most everything. Things just get worse when you consider that two of them have STAB. Once you get beyond the extremely powerful Flying/Rock/Ground attacking trio (I'm sure something resists it, it's just not coming to mind), you still have a wide variety of supporting moves: Endeavor to keep laying on hurt after you run out of health, Dragon Pulse to hit Flygon SE (although Acrobat should work fine in any case; this move is not recommended), U-turn to gain momentum and scout, Knock Off to take advantage of force-outs and break Chansey, and Taunt if you desperately need it. This Pokemon is great once it's out, the problem is getting it out. You essentially have to switch it into an Earthquake or to revenge. Don't underestimate it, though. A team not properly prepared for Archeops can find itself taking serious hits before managing to send this Pokemon crashing down.
 
Levitating steels resist all of Flying/Rock/Ground. Thankfully Bronzong is OU so we're left with just Chimecho I think.

It's not hard to prepare for him really, some neutral priority and Stealth Rocks is enough to put him at a real disadvantage. He just seems to require too much support at the moment.
 
EricaHartmann said:
Levitating steels resist all of Flying/Rock/Ground. Thankfully Bronzong is OU so we're left with just Chimecho I think.

It's not hard to prepare for him really, some neutral priority and Stealth Rocks is enough to put him at a real disadvantage. He just seems to require too much support at the moment.
Click to expand...
Chimecho is pure Psychic-type. The only levitating Steel allowed in UU is Bronzor.
 
I tested Archeops in OU and found him effective. CB Head Smash wrecks anything and U-Turn hits resistant Grass-Types and lets you switch to a counter (if they arent dead x_x)
First post for me : )
 
I wonder what would happen in doubles if you had Blissey/Evolite Chansey with Serene Grace and Skill Swap.Rock Slide could really be a pain to deal with. If I remember what I just read about Rock Slide is that it has a 30% chance of flinching, and with Serene Grace I think that doubles the chances up to 60%. Skill Swap would also get rid of Archeops's horrid ability to a creature that really doesn't really give a crap about attacking head-on. The chances of it happening are pretty slim of this actually being pulled off at all. Also, Blissey would now have a great way to (ultimately when Blissey is either killed or switched out to a creature that brings the offender down to 50%) muffle down bulkier attackers that will survive more than a hit or two. I haven't actually been able to test this because all my previous Gen creatures for me can't leave Pearl because I don't have two DS's. If you were to try out my idea don't go for the King's Rock because I think he'd like a strong Acrobat than an extra 10% chance of flinching( first time commenting so I'm not sure where this will go so sorry if something goes wrong.)
 
Doesn't the second Acrobatics hit a bit harder than the initial Flying Gem + Acrobatics?:

Calcs on BP:
Acrobatics + Flying Gem: 55 base power x 1.5 STAB x 1.5 boost from Flying Gem (?) = 123(.75) BP

Acrobatics + no item: 110 base power x 1.5 STAB = 165 BP

Correct me if I'm wrong on these calcs.
 
@Platinum dude: flying gem is used up before attack power calculation; the powers are 1.5 and then 1.

I.E., ignoring STAB:

1st Acrobatics + gem = 165
2nd Acrobatics = 110
3rd Acrobatics = 110

etc.

Anyway, using archeops for a bit, I've discovered this:
-It's frail as all fuck.
-Choice Band is idiotically powerful.
 
Breludicolo said:
@Platinum dude: flying gem is used up before attack power calculation; the powers are 1.5 and then 1.

I.E., ignoring STAB:

1st Acrobatics + gem = 165
2nd Acrobatics = 110
3rd Acrobatics = 110

etc.

Anyway, using archeops for a bit, I've discovered this:
-It's frail as all fuck.
-Choice Band is idiotically powerful.
Click to expand...
Ah I think I get how the gems; thanks.

Usually, Archeops' fraility is taken advantage of by priority. Sure, it resists Quick Attack and ExtremeSpeed, but it's weak to Bullet Punch and Aqua Jet. It also takes a lot from Mach Punch and Vacuum Wave.
 
Yeah, as it has been mentioned anything that can outpace it or land priority on it is a sign to immediately switch. Technitop / azumarill are an instant gtfo; still has the potential to be an amazing lategame cleaner, don't really think that hone claws will be all that viable though; nor headsmash.
 
Breludicolo said:
@Platinum dude: flying gem is used up before attack power calculation; the powers are 1.5 and then 1.

I.E., ignoring STAB:

1st Acrobatics + gem = 165
2nd Acrobatics = 110
3rd Acrobatics = 110

etc.

Anyway, using archeops for a bit, I've discovered this:
-It's frail as all fuck.
-Choice Band is idiotically powerful.
Click to expand...


hey I am actuallty pretty good @ math, but I dont understand this calc... can soemone show me the formula?
 
Acrobatics is base 55 power normally without STAB. The flying gem gives it x1.5 boost, so you get 55 x 1.5=82.5.

The gem uses itself up boosting the power of acrobatics, so the condition where you aren't holding an item occurs and acrobatics doubles in power. 82.5x2=165. After that, you account for STAB.
 
alphatron said:
Acrobatics is base 55 power normally without STAB. The flying gem gives it x1.5 boost, so you get 55 x 1.5=82.5.

The gem uses itself up boosting the power of acrobatics, so the condition where you aren't holding an item occurs and acrobatics doubles in power. 82.5x1.5=165. After that, you account for STAB.
Click to expand...

I've heard of bad math but 82.5x1.5 is DEFINITELY not 165.

It goes like this: Use Jewel - Check for Item - See no Item - Acrobatics is 110 power.
Then you get STAB and the Jewel added to reach a move of 110 x 1.5 (STAB) x 1.5 (Jewel) = 220.
 
EricaHartmann said:
Levitating steels resist all of Flying/Rock/Ground. Thankfully Bronzong is OU so we're left with just Chimecho I think.

It's not hard to prepare for him really, some neutral priority and Stealth Rocks is enough to put him at a real disadvantage. He just seems to require too much support at the moment.
Click to expand...

Considering SR is not so easily learnable in BW, that support is not easy to put in battles anymore. I have to agree that a priority move like Aqua Jet or Bullet Punch would make short work out of it though.
 
I've heard of bad math but 82.5x1.5 is DEFINITELY not 165.
Click to expand...
I didn't write what I calculated correctly. What I meant to post was 82.5 x 2. I accounted for the flying gem and then doubled the power of the move ala acrobatics. My fault for typing "1.5" though.

After using the jewel, isn't the jewel's bonus applied BEFORE acrobatics doubles in power though?
 
alphatron said:
I didn't write what I calculated correctly. What I meant to post was 82.5 x 2. I accounted for the flying gem and then doubled the power of the move ala acrobatics. My fault for typing "1.5" though.

After using the jewel, isn't the jewel's bonus applied BEFORE acrobatics doubles in power though?
Click to expand...

The bonus is a multiplier. The power-doubling is a multiplier. It shouldn't matter which order they are used in.
 
Yeah, you're right.

Excuse my errors today. Spending hours working on revisions for the same two papers for a while can get to one eventually...
 
PlatinumDude said:
Ah I think I get how the gems; thanks.

Usually, Archeops' fraility is taken advantage of by priority. Sure, it resists Quick Attack and ExtremeSpeed, but it's weak to Bullet Punch and Aqua Jet. It also takes a lot from Mach Punch and Vacuum Wave.
Click to expand...

Extreme Speed from for example Arcanine would still bring it below 50 percent. all who can learn ES have high att not named belly drum linoone. Some People think that Archeops wouldnt get that damage out of ES and use some other moves, just to get ohkod by quake/edge
 
Bakame! said:
Extreme Speed from for example Arcanine would still bring it below 50 percent. all who can learn ES have high att not named belly drum linoone. Some People think that Archeops wouldnt get that damage out of ES and use some other moves, just to get ohkod by quake/edge
Click to expand...

I'm not too sure about this. My Archeops took a Conkeldurr's Mach Punch from full health and didn't go into Defeatist range (it did a lot, but not enough). 60-power move from 140 attack >> 40-power move from 110 attack.
 
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