np: UU Suspect Test Round 1 - Sunny Days

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Protect chansey is really not very good since you don't get extra lefties recovery on those turns (even worse, you get damaged by hail/sandstorm).
 
why don't we ban speed bost in blaziken? the same reason, V-create is a part of victini just as much as his 100 all around stats, and a tooooo complex ban, banning parts of a pokemon until it's OK for UU standars is just gonna make things harder on the long run, banning him all is the best course of action (altough i still think Victini deserves a Drought-less UU)
 
...I said banning V-Create, not V-Create on Victini... I'd be the last person in the world to suggest a pokémon+move ban lol.


And I hope people don't oppose it mentioning Smeargle.
 
ballabrown24 said:
while we're at it can we unban mence last gen as long as it cant use outrage
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Mario does have a point though. Unlike outrage, V-create is only given to one poke (not counting Smeargle), and most likely the only reason he is considered a suspect for vote this round (noticed by his lack of top 53 status, and several opinions that the late released v-create was the cause of Vicini's low usage rate).

I am on the fence how sun should be handled though. If we got rid of v-create, I would probably still want to see dturn it off (Sand is very unreliable, and I assume hail will fall off without Kyugem around).

Kyugem should be gone, with his low status only there because there are better dragons in UU.

Chansey, you all know my feelings on that (Everytime someone mentions Knock-off, I lol and think of those who mentioned Clear Smog when Moody was up for discussion.)
 
Mario With Lasers said:
...I said banning V-Create, not V-Create on Victini... I'd be the last person in the world to suggest a pokémon+move ban lol.


And I hope people don't oppose it mentioning Smeargle.
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You realize there's no difference, right? That's like banning Judgement vs banning Judgement on Arceus, it's a signature move.


Okay, ninja'd. But still.
 
Mario With Lasers said:
Hey guys, about Victini, how about we nominate V-Create instead?
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I feel like this would be far too controversial. It would become a question of where do you draw the line. Why don't we take draco meteor away from latios etc. Blah Blah slippery slope explanation.

Well with the testing period ending tomorrow I wish to share my opinions on the obvious suspects.

I hold firm in my belief that Victini outside of sun is UU, v create or not.
Victini Verdict UU

As such drought must be removed as it is the factor that breaks the fire types and the chlorophyl users. The easiest way to do this is to ban Vulpix rather then her ability, as it avoids a complex ban.
Banning Vulpix eliminates the brokeness of sun teams as no individual is broken. Vulpix Verdict BL

Kyurem is broken, I feel like that is the general agreement. Kyurem Verdict BL

Although I was previously on the fence I have come to the conclusion that Mew is far to versatile. She can be anything you want her to be with all around great stats and the largest movepool. The set that specifically gets me is that Taunt Wisp stall breaker set that unless you are carrying houndoom you're going to have hell of time taking that thing out. Mew Verdict BL

Chaney has been the bane of many battles for me healing up her team and never dying while also allowing me to set up be it hazards, healing up or boosting sweepers. As such I am on the fence. I would either abstain from her vote to see what the other voters opinions reach or vote UU to see how she does in the next round once the clearly broken mon are out. Chansey Verdict Abstain / UU
 
Why would you post all of your verdicts? You do realize the votes are blind for a reason?
 
Why would you post all of your verdicts? You do realize the votes are blind for a reason? .
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The reason that it is a blind or secret ballot is so that the voter can't be pressured or anything. I can share what I would use my vote for if I want.
 
It's hard to say whether V-Create breaks Victini, but I'd say that it's definitely not the only factor. Relying on a perfectly viable special side still makes Victini useful. Thunderbolt hits Suicune hard as well.

Plus, bar Arcanine, Chansey, and other Victini, what is there that takes Special Victini well? Assume Fire Blast/Focus Blast/Thunderbolt/filler @ Life Orb or Choice Specs.
 
i would say gastrodon and friends but you'll probably say GK as the filler, any dragon is a strong possibility (kingra and flygon will probably kill him), snorlax can take a Focus Miss (77 acc) and Crunch Back
 
TLK said:
Yeah, I'm in agreement that sun is broken in general. There's a good few fire types that can easily abuse it - Arcanine's Flare Blitz in the sun destroys everything, Victini, Charizard, RotomH. Hell, I fought a LO Moltres in the sun earlier and I was wrecked by it. Then there's the chloro sweepers, all of which are so powerful and often carry sleep powder which makes them very hard to counter. Growth is a great move under sunlight.

I think Sun is the problem, not the others. Complex ban isn't necessary here, IMO.
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I agree with this.

While I may not have made the voting requirements, due to a combination of not playing often [I hate the current UU metagame and how it's the same 3 teams all the time], and lack of time due to exams, I did manage to hit 1250 at one point, with a Sun team, without using Victini on it.

Basically, any team that did not have multiple Bulky Waters, and a strong Grass resist too, got steamrolled.

I have no clue why anyone's not mentioned Scarf Typholosion as broken either. That is what was doing most of the steamrolling.

Keeping Hazards gone is easy with Espeon, which I run. Of course, with the sun out, it's not like Typhlosion is going to be taking Hail/Sand damage.

This basically allows Typholosion to spam a Base 300 power move, coming off a Base 107 Sp.Attack stat. That's not far off V-Create, and it's without the stat drops, so he can keep on spamming it. It also 2HKO's even some bulky waters, Slowbro takes about 70%.

But that's not all. The downside about Typholosion becoming useless when on low HP is a myth too. He can still run Flamethrower, which, while 95 Base Power, is still good under the sun for cleaning, hitting an effective 190 BP with STAB and sun factored in

Then there's Blaze as well.


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Basically, here's my opinions:

Vulpix: Ban
It makes too many pokemon broken, and we can't pull an Alderon and ban Chlorophill + Sun, because Fire types are broken under it too.

Kyurem: Ban
The Specs set is more devasteting in UU than Latias' was in Gen 4 OU. However, that's not the set I have beef with, the set I have beef with is the SUBSTITUTE set, as this allows Kyurem to use Dragon Pulse and Ice Beam with impunity, which still OHKO's a large amount of the metagame. I've even seen a couple of SubSalac Kyurem, and those were nightmares.

Chansey: Ban
I know the clauses are outdated, and set for Gen 4, but I feel Chansey fits the VERY DEFINITION of the Defense Clause.

"A pokemon is broken if it walls a significant amount of the metagame."

Now, Blissey was not broken in Gen 4, despite walling practically all special attackers. However, thanks to Evoilite, and the lack of powerful fighting-types in UU, Chansey can even wall some Physical attckers. I'd actually go as far to suggest that if Lugia was brought down from Ubers to OU, it would be a comparativly worse wall than UU Chansey is.

Chansey is also broken due to wish. The ease it can pass Wishes that restore basically anything to almost full HP is stupid. It can also use these Wishes in tandem with Softboiled to scout a switch, and then fully heal itself in one turn.

Victini: Ban
Nomatter which way to slice it, Sun or no sun, Victini still has a Base 180 STAB, which is utterly abuseable in Trick Room, or can hit current in-sun levels of power with a Choice Band. Even without that set, Victini does still have a Base 100 Sp/Attack, and a wide special movepool, as well as the capabilty to run strong physical sets.

Even if it goes to OU later, banning Victini now will keep it out of the teir if it pulls an Umbreon.

Deoxys - D : Abstain

I think it might be broken, but it's kind of hard to tell when there's Fire-Nukes going off everywhere, and Kyurem.

Mew: UU
I've not seen enough of Mew to call it broken. What I have seen of Mew I've easily handled. However, this could just be due to Victreebel [In the sun] and Typholosion outspeeding, and Houndoom having Sucker Punch.


Can't think of any other 'suspects' people have raised.
 
Just interested, how is everyone finding Azelf? From my experiences, he has been pretty damn consistent as a sweeper. He's pretty much the Psycho Killer Mewtwo of UU at the moment, and is especially dangerous in the sun. If you don't have revenge killer in your team, you're up for a lot of pain (pretty much impossible to wall this thing)

The set I've been using is just bog standard Nasty Plot Azelf:

Azelf @ Life Orb
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Nature: Timid
-Nasty Plot
-Psyshock
-Fire Blast
-Thunderbolt
 
I've not used Azelf but I've been swept by one a couple of times. Really great Pokemon and I'm surprised we don't see more of it considering it's versatility. Maybe because it's outsped by the chloro users. I haven't seen that much of Azelf though - Mew and Victini appear to be the offensive Psychic types of choice from what I've seen.
 
I've been using it as an offensive Stealth Rocker, running SR/Psyshock/Shadow Ball/Grass Knot@LO with Dugtrio support for taking out Houndoom and Drapion mainly.

Having a lot of fun with DD/Outrage/Rest/Sleep Talk Kingdra too. There aren't many common steel types in the tier, Empoleon, Cobalion, Registeel and Steeelix come to mind mainly and are easily handled by Heracross and Dugtrio. Oops giving a way a lot of my team here!
 
I think there's enough strong Bug and Dark attackers available in UU which Deoxys-D can't hurt to keep him in check. For some examples... Bisharp, Escavalier, Heracross and Scolipede all shrug off Toxic and have the ability to hit relatively hard before a Swords Dance should they get Taunted. At best Deoxys-D gets a 3-4HKO with Seismic Toss.
 
Bisharp: Frankly, if Kyurem and Sun (chlorophyll Sawsbuck) were gone, I wouldn't ever consider this for my team...

Bisharp: Considering most use Swords Dance / Sucker Punch / Iron Head / Fighting Attack, it's not exactly breaking through Deo-D easily either. It will have to Swords Dance to be a threat, while I'll just switch to my W-o-W user to force you out or burn you, while I keep the advantage I gained by setting up spikes.

Heracross: Is really good, so ok

Scolipede: isn't bad, but will never be a mainstream option...

In any case, if Victini goes (and Slowbro suffers a drop in usage), powerful bug attacks will be less attractive to the team anyway...
 
there is also Durant wo can boost before Deo-D taunts and hits hard even without a boost thanks to Hustle.

Powerful Bug attacks are always useful, if you consider how many bulky Psychic types currently roam in UU.
 
I tolerated a lot of the psuedo-legionaries in UU (Raikou, Registeel, etc.) because they didn't get signature moves with their decent stats. Some of them (like Entei) didn't get good abilities or useful stab attacks either.

But allowing Victini, Deo-D and Kyurem in UU is just unacceptable to me. Forget all the other BS we're allowing to happen in UU. What is the point of UU? Is there going to be a tier I can Gallade, Moltres, or Usaring in? Or should I just start planning for a NU team? I mean, I liked playing in the UU because I could avoid playing with all those pokemon over 580 (Celebi, Heatran, Latias etc.) BST and employ more unorthodox strategies. But with the inclusion of all these psuedo-ubers in UU now, I almost have no choice but to go NU if I want to keep using my favorite pokemon.

UU will surely be over centralized if we allow Victini and Deo-D to remaining it. Kyurem doesn't have much in the way of a move pool yet, but even so - shouldn't pokemon like this be in a BL tier? Or are we going to allow them to define UU? Am I going to need a flash fire user in my team? Something to deal with Deoxys? Because I'm going to have to. And eventually, it's going to create only a few possible "optimal" teams that can be used in UU.

As for Chansey, I think it would be fine if you simply didn't allow concurrent use with eviolite. Better than banning a pokemon outright. It's not Chansey, it's just eviolite that makes it too strong in UU.
 
I agree with what other people are saying. If you think sun is broken, can we just ban Victini or Vulpix. I really, really don't think it's a good idea to over-complicate things.

Similar with Chansey. Just ban it, or don't ban it.
 
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