That would force everyone to run a Dark-type, a Ghost-type, along with U-turn and Volt Switch on every Pokemon on the but those former two. If that doesn't show how broken Wobbuffet is in UU, to the point where you have to pack a specific type of move on practically every one of your Pokemon, along with a Ghost and Dark type, I don't know what will.
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np: UU Suspect Test Round 2 - Cold As Ice
- Thread starter JabbaTheGriffin
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That would force everyone to run a Dark-type, a Ghost-type, along with U-turn and Volt Switch on every Pokemon on the but those former two. If that doesn't show how broken Wobbuffet is in UU, to the point where you have to pack a specific type of move on practically every one of your Pokemon, along with a Ghost and Dark type, I don't know what will.
It's very uncommon on the ladder because like Flare said, fast Wobb isn't as potent versus offensive teams, which make up the majority. However, when you're facing a +4, -25 and you lose just because of something that's very "off the path" to prepare for, it kind of sucks. I'm going to be voting Wobb out of UU just because the lower power level makes him able to take out more threats than OU.
So, voting requirements is 1350+, this is taking me forever. I guess you can say i'm rushing, i just started today and i'm in the top 30, but i want to get to 1300 already :(.
This. I've been running Wobb+Duggy with 3 fast special setup sweepers and it is pretty much unstoppable once I get rid of Chansey (and this is too easy). Even if you run stuff like Scarf Flygon to revenge my Raikou, I'll just Counter that thing with Wobb and continue my assault with sweeper 2, or sweeper 3. Once I get rid of Chansey thanks to Dugtrio, I can just use Memento on whatever you bring in after that and treat your next Pokemon as setup fodder.
Wobb too strong.
This isn't an argument for why wobb isn't broken (still undecided) but maybe stall teams would have less trouble with that strategy if they didn't rely on Chansey's broken ass to wall the entire spectrum of special attackers. Umbreon, for example, is not nearly as vulnerable as Chansey (learns taunt, can use dark pulse, can baton pass out) and is still a great special wall. That could be a possible example of an adaptation.
Not that I'd end up laddering to seriously get voting rights but I've really noticed the increase in potency of LO Zapdos. Chansey seems to have...gone mia. Zapdos is a good check for Staraptor as well as a great cleaner late game. Destroys basically any mid-slow offensive team.
It doesn't force people to use those teams at all. We're not forced to use anything.
No, of course no one is forcing you to use anything. It's pretty much a choice of use this or get swept by that. Actually, yeah, it kind of is like forcing someone.
Taunt is useless on such a slow pokemon like Umbreon, who would also get outsped by fast Wobb I believe
Dark Pulse doesn't prevent you from getting tickle killed, and makes you lose even worse to CM Raikou.
Baton Pass scouts for double switches, true, but beyond that it's such a waste of a moveslot for Umbreon.
All of these un-viable suggestions are pretty much akin to suggesting to use Sp Def Quagsire on all our OU teams just to counter Thundurus.
Yeah, I'd rather not have to run Dark Pulse on an Umbreon. Coming off Base 60 Special Attack with it's only slight use being that it beats Wobb (and then, as Meru mentioned, dies straight after).
Hell, I'd rather just not use Umbreon in general because it's pretty poor in this metagame, especially with Heracross everywhere right now.
Hell, I'd rather just not use Umbreon in general because it's pretty poor in this metagame, especially with Heracross everywhere right now.
Nope. Hidden Power Ice does not require 30 speed IVs you can keep 31. One of the oldest tricks in the book.
And Zapdos can easily take a Brave Bird, obviously I'm not sending Zapdos in on Double-Edge, but that's why I said check. It can take anything BUT Double-Edge, and lots of Staraptor run Quick Attack over Double-Edge anyway.
EDIT: Yea as I said I wouldn't immediately switch Zapdos into Staraptor, but if it's either already using Brave Bird / CC or I have an easy prediction for CC / Brave Bird. There are also those SubRoost CC Brave Bird sets.
It's possible not to get swept by Wobbuffet without using that team. I've managed it. I'm sure other people have managed it too.
I'm open to Wobbuffet being broken though. I just think the "we're forced to use X" reasoning is so questionable.
Umbreon needs something like 24 Speed EVs to guarantee outspeeding wobby. Even with Payback umbreon is losing to CM Kou, and Dark Pulse at least lets you 4hko Wobby, meaning it won't tickle you more than twice if it encores, at which point your opponent basically needs to sack duggy to kill you...and losing two pokemon for one is not broken.
Baton Pass might be useful just for wobbuffet, but people use random physical attacks on special sweepers just for chansey (even though it doesn't break past her...) and I didn't hear anyone complaining about that. It's just adapting to the metagame!!
Honestly, I recognize that some of these suggestions are unviable, it's just hilarious to me that players were making ridiculous suggestions to deal with Chansey earlier ("use knock off!") but whenever something threatens stall it gets immediately banned. We're so focused on banning offensive and support threats that we turn every generation into a stallish circlejerk, and we're well on our way again this gen.
Difference between Chansey and Wobb is that you can support your team to take out Chansey for your special sweepers, either with hazards, hyper offensive physical sweepers, or hey even your own WobbTrio! However, with Wobb, each pokemon needs their own individual options to be able to avoid being taken out.
Also, regarding Umbreon, Payback gives you a better chance of taking out Raikou if say you had a few spikes support before he managed to come in, and also prevents him from keeping a Substitue up, allowing you to be able to revenge it. Dark Pulse also doesn't OHKO Mismagius.
Also, regarding Umbreon, Payback gives you a better chance of taking out Raikou if say you had a few spikes support before he managed to come in, and also prevents him from keeping a Substitue up, allowing you to be able to revenge it. Dark Pulse also doesn't OHKO Mismagius.
i also agree that wobbtrio can be infuriating!!!this combo if played well can guarantee a sweep to whatever you want...
@flareblitz
as it already have been said chansey can be beaten if the whole team works together!wobbufet cannot!
each poke must be individually capable of stoping him or you are screwed...and this is impossible!
also all your examples on umbreon are inferior for everyhting else except wobb as it has been said earlier...
taunt on such a slow poke is bad,dark pulse has most of the times lower base damage than payback and makes you setup fodder by many of the speciall attackers which you want to wall('cause of calm mind) and finally batton pass is...meh!it has its uses if you want to wish pass to something safely but it also leaves only free move for umbreon(protect,wish,batton pass).anyway i'll give you this one but the other 2 suggestions are crap...
and finally knock off has many uses like screwing every eviolite user and generally getting rid of the opponents items which is always nice!!!
@flareblitz
as it already have been said chansey can be beaten if the whole team works together!wobbufet cannot!
each poke must be individually capable of stoping him or you are screwed...and this is impossible!
also all your examples on umbreon are inferior for everyhting else except wobb as it has been said earlier...
taunt on such a slow poke is bad,dark pulse has most of the times lower base damage than payback and makes you setup fodder by many of the speciall attackers which you want to wall('cause of calm mind) and finally batton pass is...meh!it has its uses if you want to wish pass to something safely but it also leaves only free move for umbreon(protect,wish,batton pass).anyway i'll give you this one but the other 2 suggestions are crap...
and finally knock off has many uses like screwing every eviolite user and generally getting rid of the opponents items which is always nice!!!
Knock Off is not a good move outside of evolite users, every pokemon that learns it can make much better use of the slot. Sometimes an opposing knock off user can even be actively beneficial to me, allowing me to switch in a choice user and be free to switch moves in the endgame.
Meru, that's a valid argument, but my point is that the extent to which stall teams must go to "adapt" to wobbuffet are no less ridiculous than the extent to which offensive teams have to go to "adapt" to Chansey. And no, it's not as simple as "use physical attackers"; do you know what happens when LO Mamoswine switches into Chansey? It doesn't 2hko. The 3rd strongest Earthquake in the game, backed by Life Orb, doesn't 2hko. You literally need boosted or STAB fighting attacks to stand a chance of KOing, and all chansey needs to do in that scenario is wish and switch out. It's hilarious that people are saying "wobby is broken because you can't switch out" when the worst it'll do is cost you a pokemon before dying of Toxic or residual/switch-in damage. Chansey, on the other hand, makes 80% of the offensive pokemon in the tier almost entirely useless, but it's not broken because you can switch out to one of the other 20%...at which point Chansey uses one of its 5 teammates to wall it.
Like I said, I don't have an opinion one way or another on wobby, but the double standards being applied to the arguments here are what bear commenting.
wut
In any case I haven't been able to play this metagame that much yet, but right now it seems like its a Staraptor/Chansey/Wobbtrio spam fest. :/
sry my quote was for flareblitz i fixed it!!!
Sorry, but I haven't seen a single WobbTrio in my entire UU battling scene. Am I just in the wrong timezone, or something?
no kidding...
The best partner for Wobbuffet is MixDoom, in my opinion. Sure, it can't actually trap Umbreon like Dugtrio can. But Umbreon is rare, and unlike Dugtrio it actually benefits significantly itself from the removal of Chansey. MixDoom is also significantly anti-metagame in its own right, creating big problems for Celebi, Mew and Victini. A strong Sucker Punch is also always nice to have, what with the glut of Staraptor. The best part of pairing MixDoom with Wobb is that Hitmontop is the main thing that stands in Houndoom's way, and Hitmontop dreads Wobbuffet. Just have something to dear with Milotic and you're golden.
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