Data State of the Game - 6/10/2011

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...I'm somewhat in favor of being able to change natures with evolution. For one thing, as we've seen with Scratchet, a mon and its evolved stage might play VERY differently. Secondly, we have anime precedent, i.e. stuff like Charmander-Charmeleon.
 
I think if we are to "sell" nature changes, it shouldn't be as ridiculously cheap as 1 MC. I'd suggest making it cost as much as the base stage of the Pokemon. That way it's KINDA like buying a new Pokemon, but without having to evolve it and buy it moves and stuff.
 
Agree 100%
with the one nature for all system, it' harder to train pokes that change with evolution, just like Volcanora and it's prevo, Gallade and Kirlia, Hydreigon and his, etc..., you also have the precedence of Charmander changed into a "bad" Charmeleon

Still, with a nature change, wouldn't 2 TC be a better price, it seems not as cheap, and still fair (the same as the first stage poke you don't want to re-buy (and train again)

edit: ninja'd (twice)
 
I dislike nature changes on the whole. It changes a fundamental aspect of your pokemon, ruining the 'rp' element of asb, and Ash hardly had control over the change in nature of his Charmander.

Just prepare in advance, your prevo might suck for a while. Deal with it.
 
Why would you make the price of the nature change the same as buying the Pokemon all over again? I suppose we could go with "Price of the Pokemon's basic form -1 in TC". So a Pokemon that costs 2 TC would pay 1 TC to change its nature, while a Pokemon that costs 4 TC would pay 3 TC for the same privilege. I don't really see the merit in that, though; it should just be a 1 TC cost in my opinion.

The way I see nature changes is as a convenience thing. Ultimately, this is anime style battling. We're not running around the real world with our Pokemon fighting battles and doing good for all. Sure, we're pretending that we have these things, but there needs to be a certain level of convenience in order to maintain our audience and make battles practical. People will make mistakes. This is the same reason we have moves instead of, say, just telling our Charizard to fly around the arena, beat the opponent with his tail, and then using a super big fire attack to finish. We have a data audit thread where things can change in response to new issues that are discovered. We have moves, we have abilities, we have actions, rounds, etc. All of these things exist to facilitate immersion in the battling, and with all due respect, lacking something convenient such as a nature or Hidden Power type change is nothing short of aggravating.
 
1. I agree with this. Substitute is far too abusable, and placing a set amount of HP for each Sub to have (15 or so) is definitely a good idea.

2. 5 Rounds is indeed to long (and I say this owning the best Sun abuser in ASB), but 6 actions is far too short. Something between 9 and 12 seems appropriate.

3. I have no experience with these moves, so I'm not really adequately prepared to make a statement about them. Sorry :/

4. The player in me wants to say yes to this, but honestly reffing is far too strained already to make this work.

EDIT: I also disagree with nature changes. If we can make the fundamental nature of our Pokemon change, why can't we just unbuy moves? Why can't we just exchange our Pokemon? In addition, it would be far too easy to abuse this to just tailor a Pokemon to any given situation. With regards to Ash's Charmander, that was an exceptional case. If we were to allow this I would add an RP requirement to it. We simply can't allow you to just give your Pokemon a few counter and say 'change your fundamental nature now'. It doesn't work. With some RP involved it could be possible.
 
I am in complete agreement with Dusk. It's one of those "acceptable breaks from reality" that we need to have to allow mistakes to be fixable.

On that subject, I propose a small, but potentially very major, ability change: Traunt to be changed from "Innate" to "Can Be Disabled". The main reasoning behind this is that the way it is now, Durant actually gets worse upon unlocking its DW ability, assuming "all abilities" which is quite common. Slakoth and Slaking also benefit, and it allows them a little leeway when it comes to strategies and being effective in general.
 
I actually think a nature change after evolution would be ok, since it's like say a pokemon's puberty, it changes, a RP is something that sound appropiate

PS: concerning Truant, then why would you actually have it active, while i agree in durant, Slaking become a real monster (125/6/4/3/3 stats) whit no drawback
 
Rising_Dusk said:
Why would you make the price of the nature change the same as buying the Pokemon all over again? I suppose we could go with "Price of the Pokemon's basic form -1 in TC". So a Pokemon that costs 2 TC would pay 1 TC to change its nature, while a Pokemon that costs 4 TC would pay 3 TC for the same privilege. I don't really see the merit in that, though; it should just be a 1 TC cost in my opinion.
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Because there has to be some sense of permanence. To me, a nature change is no different than being able to magically go back and change your starting moves. You make decisions and you deal with them. The reason I'm suggesting the same cost as re-buying the Pokemon is because that's essentially what you're doing, except you get all your old moves/counters for free. It's cheaper than now and still has a sense of significance.


The way I see nature changes is as a convenience thing. Ultimately, this is anime style battling. We're not running around the real world with our Pokemon fighting battles and doing good for all. Sure, we're pretending that we have these things, but there needs to be a certain level of convenience in order to maintain our audience and make battles practical. People will make mistakes. This is the same reason we have moves instead of, say, just telling our Charizard to fly around the arena, beat the opponent with his tail, and then using a super big fire attack to finish. We have a data audit thread where things can change in response to new issues that are discovered. We have moves, we have abilities, we have actions, rounds, etc. All of these things exist to facilitate immersion in the battling, and with all due respect, lacking something convenient such as a nature or Hidden Power type change is nothing short of aggravating.
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I'll say it again, I see this as no different than being able to go back and change your starting moves if it turns out yours were not the best choices. Grow up, deal with it, wait for the next change in how base stats are treated to get a nature change.

Spenstar said:
On that subject, I propose a small, but potentially very major, ability change: Traunt to be changed from "Innate" to "Can Be Disabled". The main reasoning behind this is that the way it is now, Durant actually gets worse upon unlocking its DW ability, assuming "all abilities" which is quite common. Slakoth and Slaking also benefit, and it allows them a little leeway when it comes to strategies and being effective in general.
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IIRC you can choose not to unlock your DW ability. Besides that, Truant is meant to be a drawback, and changing it to "Can Be Disabled" would mean that Slaking would just have these monster stats

HP: 125
Atk: Rank 6
Def: Rank 4
SpA: Rank 3
SpD: Rank 3
Spe: 100

without a drawback.
 
On the subject of detrimental abilities (though a less severe case). I suggest changing Rivalry to disable/enable. It's an annoying ability that isn't meant to be detrimental but can be under quite a few circumstances in All Abilities battles.
 
Venser said:
Because there has to be some sense of permanence. To me, a nature change is no different than being able to magically go back and change your starting moves.
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This is a poor example that actually furthers my own point. Consider that choosing the wrong moves doesn't cripple your Pokemon forever; you can spend MC to go back and buy the moves you actually want after the fact. There's no permanent damage done to your Pokemon. Natures and Hidden Power types are not like this, they are currently irreparable issues with your Pokemon that to 'fix' force you to spend countless tokens re-buying your Pokemon and getting it back to where it was with the nature and Hidden Power type that you want. With buying new moves, you're only adding to your arsenal, and are not wasting anything. We can already effectively 'change' natures and Hidden Power types with immense token expenditure used to re-buy a Pokemon, this would simply cheapen it and make it a more convenient aspect of the game. If it takes spending 2 TC to do it, fine, I'm more concerned with getting the action available rather than the price to do it.
 
I actually agree with smashlloyd, I think that nature change either shouldnt be possible or should have more than just a small TC cost tacked on to it. I think nature should be one of the heavier and more important decisions when u design a poke, and as such shouldnt be able to be changed on a whim. I think that with a TC cost and a Roleplaying section that would take some time would make nature choose a very heavy decision, but not one thats forever crippling if a mistake is made.
 
Why can't their be some sort of RP for a surgeon or something that can make changes to your Pokemon for a certain cost? You could make it shiny, you could change its nature, or maybe even a gender change. I don't know, plenty of people have a ton of TC, and while these things may not happen in the anime, there are real people who go and get major aspects of themselves changed for a lot of money.
 
I agree with having a RP about this. Something which the trainers and Pokemon would have to go through together in order to get a certain change of the nature of the Pokemon or something. You could try to orchestrate Ash's Charmeleon's circumstances, and maybe there is a 50% chance of it working. There shouldn't just be a pathetic 1 TC for a nature/gender/whatever change.
 
@Dusk: It sounds like we're on the same side here and are arguing about semantics :P I totally think it should be available, I just don't think 1 TC is enough to justify it.

Regarding an RP, uhhh can someone fill me in on what happened to Ash's Charmeleon? All i can remember is that it wouldn't evolve so he let it train with the Charizards? Or something?
 
Basically, he evolved and changed completely, from the Charmander everyone knows and loves into a Charmeleon which didin't obey and ignored Ash, frequently roasting him.
 
Venser said:
Regarding an RP, uhhh can someone fill me in on what happened to Ash's Charmeleon? All i can remember is that it wouldn't evolve so he let it train with the Charizards? Or something?
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An anime question? Ooh, I can answer that. Basically, when Charmander evolved (in March of the Exeggutor Squad) it just didn't want to do anything Ash said. There was no real reason for it, it just changed how it felt. And It didn't start obeying until Ash helped it out all night after it was frozen (in Charizard Chills). So as for the first change, there wasn't really anything Ash did to change it, it just changed, but he did have to work to change it the second time.

I believe that a nature change should not just be something you buy. Having an RP to do it would be fine by me though. However, what RD said about Hidden Power I think is a decent idea. It is not as severe a change as a Nature, and is just like re buying a move. I would make it the same cost as buying it originally, but otherwise I am perfectly fine with just buying that.
 
I agree with nature changes; when I intially bought some of my Pokemon I was sort of stuck in game logic in terms of stats and made some choices in Nature that I kind of regret.
But I also agree 1 TC is ridiculously low. If the alternative is buying a whole new Pokemon and starting over then the cost should at least be roughly equivelant to that, and I'd be inclined to say more. Maybe unwise for me to say given I have a couple of Pokemon who's natures I want to change, but it seems logical to me.

Hidden Power I'm undecided, but I guess similar logic applies in terms of being able to change it. Maybe it should cost 2TC though, the same as buying Hidden Power the first time.
 
RE Hidden Power and Nature Changes:

A one-time Nature Change will be allowed because of the significant game changes to Speed natures. This will be allowed because it is a significant mechanics shift that could not possibly have been forseen.

Changing Hidden Power is right out, since it effectively allows Hidden Power to be tailored to an upcoming match. Hidden Power is something innately part of the Pokemon.
 
I'm against nature changes for purchase. I think maybe each player gets say, 4 free ones on joining, and thats it barring huge mechanic changes/nerfs/boosts, etc. The reason is that being able to change natures whenever you want is something that could be abused. Say you know an opponent in an upcoming match has most of his mons with high SpD, but low Def. This might cause you to make all your mons Adamant to take advantage of that, something I think is absolutely not what ASB is about.
 
Re: Nature changes

I am with Destiny Warrior in that nature changes should only be given out when there are changes to the stat system (eg, rank 5 cutoff moves down, speed natures work differently).

When you buy your mon, you should consciously check to see what stats it has in its current form and what stats it will have when it is fully evolved and choose a nature accordingly. Often there will be one or two natures that stand out as good choices. If you happen to pick a nature that's really crap, then let that be a lesson to you.

However, bearing in mind that you picked your nature under one version of the stat system, it makes sense that you might have picked a different nature under a different version of the stat system, so one free nature change should be given for changes to the stat system (but no 'collecting' such nature changes lol).

Re: Hidden Power changes

Pretty much as above. You pick a crappy hidden power, let that be a lesson to you.
 
The Hidden power is something i only think should be changed after movepools changes, for example, I got HP fire, I wanted a fighting attack, but Reuiniclus get's Focus Blast, and that's kind of enough, but then you don't have anything to take stuff like scizor or the ice-bug, it might be hard for a few battles, but then it's worth it, the same with budew, she will get HP with 6 BP, that makes Roserade's technician get it to 9 BP, it's planning, and something you should thing about when purchasing, but HPs are a "free" coverage move for an attack you don0t have so if you get the attack (or a similar one) in the future i don't see why you shouldn't be able to change it
 
Gerard said:
The Hidden power is something i only think should be changed after movepools changes, for example, I got HP fire, I wanted a fighting attack, but Reuiniclus get's Focus Blast, and that's kind of enough, but then you don't have anything to take stuff like scizor or the ice-bug, it might be hard for a few battles, but then it's worth it, the same with budew, she will get HP with 6 BP, that makes Roserade's technician get it to 9 BP, it's planning, and something you should thing about when purchasing, but HPs are a "free" coverage move for an attack you don0t have so if you get the attack (or a similar one) in the future i don't see why you shouldn't be able to change it
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You also only choose your Hidden Power when you actually purchase it, so unless it comes innately with the Pokemon (Shellos and Burmy pretty much.) then you can wait until you've built up your Pokemon more before deciding.
 
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