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The problem with a Swift Swim ban is that it assumes that all the pokemon will have an alternate ability, which won't always be true.
Let's say, for instance, that Sand Veil/Snow Cloak is also banned. If we ban Swift Swim, we'd end up completely banning Beartic of all things, which is clearly inconsistent with what the bans should do, banning broken pokemon.
?__? You would be allowed to use Ludicolo and any other pokémon which has access to Swift Swim... You just wouldn't be allowed to use Swift Swim. Same thing with the Moody ban (and now, Moody Clause); no pokémon can use the Moody ability, and yet you are allowed to use Suction Cups Octillery.
(In case you forgot, Ludicolo has Rain Dish and Own Tempo)
He meant that he didn't want us to "test" Swift Swim by reintroducing it into the metagame and then hard-ban the broken ones. This would probably ban Sniper Kingdra, Rain Dish Ludicolo, and so forth - something he doesn't want.
I agree with this wholeheartedly. Either keep them all or ban them all.
That being said, I do also agree with Aldaron's Proposal. Think about it this way... In sandstorm we have Excadrill and in sun, Venusaur. Both can sweep unprepared teams, but there are ways of dealing with them that a competent battler should be able to devise. (Even though there are other Sand Rush/Chlorophyll users, none quite match the power of these two.) But in rain, back before Drizzle + Swift Swim was banned, you could pretty much run a team of Politoed, Kingdra, Ludicolo, Kabutops, Ferrothorn and [Dragonite/Thundurus] and you'd be all set. Kingdra, Ludicolo and Kabutops would often just decimate teams on their own. Nowadays, this doesn't happen anymore and I personally view all three weathers (Hail who?) as being roughly equally threatening. I believe that even though the implemented solution was a complex ban, it was the simplest way to make this happen.
Just wondering why banning Drizzle as a whole isn't a good idea. Can anyone please explain this to me? It's the only weather that boosts the second most dangerous offensive type's attacks and can provide a speed boost to some Pokemon with STAB on these attacks (not anymore). The power boost is what makes it incredibly difficult to handle. Thundurus can forgo Thunderbolt for Thunder now and forget about running Life Orb. Mixed Dragonite now gets two incredibly powerful STABs (3 if you count Surf) and is really difficult to just knock out. Things like Ferrothorn can even set up on stuff designed specifically to stop them like Magnezone. That's just absured. I feel Thundurus isn't the one that's broken, but Rain is. I'm open to change my mind, however as I'm on the fence about Thundurus. I'm not entirely sure if it's Rain or Thundurus that's broken. I always find it easier to deal with outside of rain, though and that's probably the reason.
If we just ban Drizzle, we pretty much eliminate a play style. RainStall isn't broken and relies on rain. Once Drizzle is gone, a playstyle like RainStall will be pretty much useless.
I agree. The fact that a playstyle is completely eliminated is quite irrelevant, but it's an entire sector of strategy we'd be removing.
I'm just gonna throw this out here. IF we do in fact ban Drizzle, rain teams will vanish. This leaves sand teams to run amok, thus resulting in the same complaints, and the same results. The same would probably happen with sun, and hail still gets ignored, cause let's face it, it sucks Ash's Pokeballs. This just leads to an excruciatingly gradual elimination of weather teams. And the point in that is very minimal. That's the "new" mechanic of 5th gen just up and gone. And the logic there, is nonexistent.
I mentioned this, but why not just make a separate tier for weather teams? It'd work fine on its own, and people could chose whether or not to challenge them or accept their challenges. This does remove it from direct OU play, but it COMPENSATES between both sides of the argument. It's a win-win scenario, as Politoed doesn't end up banned, nor does Drizzle or Swift swim, and those against the three don't have to worry about them in standard. I figure this is the most diplomatic solution.
Oh, wake up. Sand teams are balanced offense teams composed of one anti-weather mon, Excadrill, and four other Pokemon who work well in all weather conditions. We're basically playing the same types of teams as we did in Gen 4 + Excadrill and Landorus. The Sand itself is harmless as it ever was and doesn't do anything besides boost those two Pokemon, which probably aren't even broken.
Why do people fail to realize how little the impact of the actual weather has, and insist that because it's called Sand and is used a lot, it's a problem? -__-
Oh, wake up. Sand teams are balanced offense teams composed of one anti-weather mon, Excadrill, and four other Pokemon who work well in all weather conditions. We're basically playing the same types of teams as we did in Gen 4 + Excadrill and Landorus. The Sand itself is harmless as it ever was and doesn't do anything besides boost those two Pokemon, which probably aren't even broken.
Why do people fail to realize how little the impact of the actual weather has, and insist that because it's called Sand and is used a lot, it's a problem? -__-
Yeah, sand teams are balanced. Like 85% of the weather teams out there are. These teams are similar, but there are a few missing elements from fourth. Priority isn't as dominant anymore, and Explosion sucks. The sand, in the long run, does loads. You take, what was it, 8% damage per turn, and it drops the accuracy of nearly ten moves. The boosts that Landorus and Excadrill get make them quite broken actually. Sand Rush is basically the ground-type version of Swift Swim, and Sand Power gives a much more powerful STAB in Earthquake, which is ridiculously powerful coming from a Landorus anyways.
Here's some proof;
LANDORUS + Sand Power + Earthquake
vs. Max Def + Max HP Reuniclus = 354 Damage or 83%
vs. Max Def + Max HP Cofagrigus = 227 Damage or 71%
vs. Max Def + Max HP Politoed = 354 Damage or 92%
vs. Max Def + Max HP Ferrothorn = 243 Damage or 69%
Not the best examples, but some of the more common defensive Pokemon that would be used against Landorus. All of which are a 2HKO. Politoed is factored in if Sandstorm was in effect while it was in, and Landorus was sent out. These are with no items for either side, but with a Life Orb or choice Band, which I wouldn't doubt they are likely to carry, 3/4 of these examples become OHKOs.
EXCADRILL + Sand Rush
Max Speed in Sandstorm = 604. With a Choice Band or Life Orb, I daresay that's broken.
Banning Drizzle is definitely the most straightforward option here. Drizzle is truly the source of the problem here, and creating fancy complex bans in the attempt of hindering Drizzle is definitely not the way to go. We want to ban one thing, a Pokemon or an Ability. The source of the over-centralization here is Drizzle, not Swift Swim. Sand teams are so popular partly due to the fact that they handle Drizzle teams the best.
Drizzle is honestly, completely over-powered. When someone has Drizzle Politoed on their team, they make it rain for the entire battle. This means a 1.5x boost to Water attacks, 0.5x decrease to Fire attacks, and 100% accuracy boosts to Thunder and Hurricane. All of these effects stay for the remainder of the battle, unless one carries one of the few auto-weather Pokemon or a Pokemon with the moves Sunny Day, Sandstorm, Hail. Basically, that means you need to be playing weather in some way or else you are at a disadvantage for the entire battle.
That being said, you could, of course, create a team based on countering Drizzle without weather by using certain anti-Drizzle Pokemon such as Gastrodon and Ferrothorn, but focusing too much on countering one weather creates weaknesses to other teams (for example, Drought teams wreck non-weather teams 9 times out of 10, given that both are played by decent players). Speaking of the various weathers, Drizzle Politoed also holds an automatic advantage over all other OU auto-weather Pokemon.
So basically, the mere presence of Drizzle in OU, in tandem with the presence of Drought (the Fire-type version of Drizzle with less nerf bans), is an incredibly over-centralizing one. Drought has straight up proven in UU that it is an over-centralizing force. Reflecting upon what we've learned from this generation's UU metagame, we should ask ourselves, "what stops Drought in OU that was missing in UU?" The answer is plain and simple: Sand Stream and Drizzle. That means a grand total of 3 OU Pokemon are what's stopping Drought from being broken in OU. That is the essential meaning of over-centralizing. Drizzle, on the other hand, has been slapped by a silly complex ban, but still remains a force in the OU metagame. Banning Drizzle is a win-win situation as it distances ourselves from the "slippery slope" of complex banning and it removes the very source of Drizzle's over-centralizing power instead of nerfing various aspects of it... this soruce, of course, being the ability Drizzle itself.
youre obviously kidding yourself if you think sand is not the problem here. the nullified leftovers recovery alone is a pain in the ass. then you've got your excadrills and landorus' which are so easy to just throw on a team and kill shit while your opponent must have some stupid counter that is usually forced onto a team rather than actually fitting in it. the biggest clue to why sand is so great is when youre faced with "normal team vs. sand team" and theres no reason to pick a normal team over a sand team. sand is obviously superior to normal teams (and a majority of rain teams which is why you dont see many rain teams at the top of the ladder), and its only going to get better if rain gets banned.
for reference i want all weather banned, not just sand
What kind of "variety" and "balance" are people expecting if weather gets banned? The next big thing will probably be Dragons and Steels, and people will just get tired of it and ban alot of Dragons.
What kind of "variety" and "balance" are people expecting if weather gets banned? The next big thing will probably be Dragons and Steels, and people will just get tired of it and ban alot of Dragons.
honestly, there wouldn't be any for a bit. Individuals would have to start playtesting on their own to create a team that works for them. I agree. The powerful Dragons such as Haxorus, Salamence, and Latios would vanish, as people complain when they can't cover their weaknesses.
What kind of "variety" and "balance" are people expecting if weather gets banned? The next big thing will probably be Dragons and Steels, and people will just get tired of it and ban alot of Dragons.
People complain about dragons as is. Garchomp was banned and Latios was a suspect last round. As more dragons get banned, others will simply step up and take their place. Offensively, Dragon is, of course, an over-centralizing type, but that doesn't necessarily mean that all Dragon-types are broken.
Seriously, once Drizzle is gone, then eventually the Sand Streams will rule, and that will get sacked too, then eventually the Drought. Honestly, no one cares about Snow Warning, but pretty soon that'll get tossed out too until it's an anti-weather meta. Honestly, people will just find more to complain about so they can play the game the way THEY want it.
Seriously, once Drizzle is gone, then eventually the Sand Streams will rule, and that will get sacked too, then eventually the Drought. Honestly, no one cares about Snow Warning, but pretty soon that'll get tossed out too until it's an anti-weather meta. Honestly, people will just find more to complain about so they can play the game the way THEY want it.
This. Drizzle > Sand Stream > Drought + Snow Warning > Dragons > FWG because it's too "overpowered" as a core. Eventually, Kakuna is going to get banned, too.
I'm your average player and got near the top of the ladder with a simple balanced/offensive team. -.- My only checks to Sandstorm are a Rotom-W and a birdy Heatran. tbh, I don't think banning Drizzle will overpower Sandstorm now that Garchomp is gone and I rarely lose to Sandstorm teams with just my two checks. Drizzle is the root of the problem and probably should be banned. Sandstorm mons don't get both a boost to their STABs and a speed boost. They can only choose one and it's only a 1.3x boost to their STAB. Things like Gliscor and Skarmory are still good in this metagame with Drizzle allowed so what's stopping you from using them when/if it's banned?
Oh, wake up. Sand teams are balanced offense teams composed of one anti-weather mon, Excadrill, and four other Pokemon who work well in all weather conditions. We're basically playing the same types of teams as we did in Gen 4 + Excadrill and Landorus. The Sand itself is harmless as it ever was and doesn't do anything besides boost those two Pokemon, which probably aren't even broken.
Why do people fail to realize how little the impact of the actual weather has, and insist that because it's called Sand and is used a lot, it's a problem? -__-
Here's my reasoning on why Drizzle isn't broken. Agree, disagree, whatever, don't care anymore:
DRIZZLE. DOES. NOT. DO. ANYTHING. TO. YOU.
If you imagine battles taking place in an actually stadium like in the home console games, all Drizzle does is sit on it's fat ass on the halfline, farting all over the field. That "all over" bit is important, because it means that both players get the advantages of Drizzle, regardless of who has the Politoed that starts it. The non-Drizzle user gets pseudo-STAB on Water attacks, resistance to Fire-attacks, 100% accurate Thunder and Hurricane, and the abilities Rain Dish, Hydration, and best of all Swift Swim activated, among others. This doesn't help the non-Drizzle user as much as much as the Drizzle user, since the person using it is using it to abuse it, but it's the truth.
You don't like how your team works under Drizzle? YOU CHANGE THE WEATHER OR YOU CHANGE THE TEAM. You use your Tyranitar/Hippowdon/Abomasnow/Ninetales (or even Vulpix/Hippopotas/Snover; nah just kidding, don't use them cause they're shit). Or, you run a weather move. Either/or. Not adapting to weather just because you don't want to use weather yourself doesn't mean that weather is broken, it means you should SUCK IT UP AND USE WEATHER. Or don't and be good enough to get around it. Or you could join one of the 5+ other Pokemon metagames that don't have weather domination.
Those whole 2 paragraphs above? Not even related to that bolded sentence up top, but this one is; I just thought I'd get that out of the way. You see, when Drizzle comes out onto the field (let's assume the opponent starts it), nothing happens to the Pokemon in-play. Next turn, you make a move with your Pokemon, your opponent makes a move with theirs, it goes in a certain order depending on what moves you and your opponent have chosen and the Speed stats of your Pokemon including item, ability and stat boosts, each move goes off unless the first to go takes out the second, and the turn finalizes. This repeats until the game ends with a victor. What did Drizzle do on each of those turns? NOTHING. Sure, your opponent's Pokemon might have done something different than usual thanks to Drizzle, but that's just it; it was the Pokemon doing it. Not Drizzle.
In this sense, Stealth Rocks is more broken than Drizzle, seeing as, improbable as it may be, without a Magic Guard Pokemon on the team you could theoretically be 6-0ed solely through SR damage. Sandstorm, Hail and Spikes could do the same, but at least for those you have the pool of Rock/Ground/Steel/Ice/Overcoat/Flying/Levitate Pokemon to choose from as well respectively, but SR? Nope, just the 3 fully-evolved Magic Guard Pokemon and their pre-evos. But this isn't about SR being broken, cause it isn't; it's about Drizzle being even less broken, so it's not broken either.
Also, pretty much every argument on a Pokemon being broken has said something to the likes of "This Pokemon O/2/whatever-HKOs that other Pokemon with SR damage". Why the hell aren't we just doing this with the weathers? SR and weather are close to mechanically identical, with SR directly damaging Pokemon (differing in how much based on certain criteria, such as typing) and weather boosting Pokemon (differing in how much based on certain criteria, such as typing). If you consider weather as a field condition, like it should be, then tiering becomes much simpler, as we skip all this "what's actually broken" shit and get straight to Pokemon bans. All those Pokemon that are broken because they are boosted by Drizzle? They are unlike the rest of the 649 Pokemon in the game that aren't broken by Drizzle, which means they should be treated like those few Pokemon broken regardless of Drizzle, and be banned. Simple.
Also, while reading this thread, one post has stuck in my mind for something within it. I can't be bothered to find said post and confirm it even exists, but I believe it said something along the lines of, "Drizzle makes OU-worthy Pokemon broken, and non-OU-worthy Pokemon OU-worthy, so Drizzle should be banned". OK, Imma gonna go ahead and break this in half:
1. Who decided that said Pokemon were OU-worthy? If they are broken under Drizzle, then they are broken and above OU. There is no "OU-worthy" for anything, not even for Starmie and Gengar, and to say that anything is inherently "OU-worthy" shows a bias unfit for a competitive decision.
2. ...And? Some Pokemon that would otherwise not be in OU are in OU thanks to Drizzle. This means there are more Pokemon in OU with Drizzle than OU without, yes? Isn't that a... good thing? Other than that, it's pretty much the same as the above point; why should these Pokemon not be considered OU-worthy if being under Drizzle makes them OU-worthy? They don't just get an arbitrary not-OU-worthy status just because whoever said this that I don't know says so.
Honestly, my memory may be a little fuzzy, but this whole Drizzle debacle started not with Aldaron's Proposal, but in fact the Moody ban. When Moody was finally recognized as the broken piece of shit that it is, we decided to ban it. Don't get me wrong, Moody ban was completely justifiable; every Pokemon that had it was broken, even the ever-so-craptastic Bidoof. But, because Moody set a precedent for Ability bans, we thought, "Hey, we don't like this rain thing with Kingdra and all that noise, so why not ban Drizzle? After all, it's what gives them the boosts", and that was countered by "No man, banning Drizzle would be disasterous, as it would remove Rain Stall and other shit like that, so let's ban Swift Swim", and THAT was countered by, "No, cause Luvdisc and Magikarp ain't broken with Swift Swim, so we should ban Drizzle", and then Aldaron's proposal came and was seen as a temporary compromise to see if it was truly broken. Oh, and there was also a bit of "Neither Drizzle nor Swift Swim are broken, since a Pokemon has to have the right combination of things in order to be broken with either, so we should just ban the Pokemon". That was where I was at the end of the round, and that's where I am now.
For the whole "Testing the individual Swift Swimmers back into OU" thing, I was kinda thinking about this for a while, and was wondering if we might be able to test them backwards at a quicker pace while continuing Suspect Testing (if we would need to at all). What I mean is, we take all the Pokemon that we know are shitty even with Swift Swim, like Magikarp and Luvdisc, and we throw them back into OU. We wait a week, and then have a quick vote on whether anything is too overpowering somehow. If not, then we add in the next-weakest Pokemon in the line and repeat the above. We continue until we reach a point where the newly-added Pokemon breaks OU, at which point we keep that Pokemon in Ubers, and we can either skip to the next one to check if it's broken too, or just preempt how that will end up and keep the other Pokemon above said broken Pokemon in Ubers as well. Either way, Aldaron's Proposal is repealed and the Pokemon found broken are banned as a whole. As far as I can tell, here are some Pros and Cons:
Pros:
1. Can relatively quickly get through SSers
2. Doesn't overwhelm us with shit we are already 99% certain are broken
3. With a list made beforehand, players looking to abuse the more possibly-broken Pokemon can prepare for their temporary unban before it happens.
4. Can be done alongside any standard Suspect testing that may need to be done.
Cons:
1. Said weakest-to-strongest list would have to be made, and even then might not be accurate thanks to being mostly theorymon.
2. Shorter period may not be enough to accurately size each Pokemon up metagame-wise.
3. Would have to assume that Drizzle stays in the metagame, or to prevent that, would have to make Drizzle exempt from suspect testing (which I'm guessing some would not like that).
There are more that I thought of, but I'm such a scatterbrain that I already forgot them.
Thoughts?
One, you might notice that my post got a little calmer after the beginning. I cooled down a bit while typing this, but I'm not gonna bother editing the beginning. And two, in my last post there was a bit of it that was referring to a post by Nkululeko that sounded pretty pointed and was a bit hasty and not very well thought out. I apologize for said part of said post, since I didn't really think it through and it was a bit stupid anyways.
Here's my reasoning on why Drizzle isn't broken. Agree, disagree, whatever, don't care anymore:
DRIZZLE. DOES. NOT. DO. ANYTHING. TO. YOU.
If you imagine battles taking place in an actually stadium like in the home console games, all Drizzle does is sit on it's fat ass on the halfline, farting all over the field. That "all over" bit is important, because it means that both players get the advantages of Drizzle, regardless of who has the Politoed that starts it. The non-Drizzle user gets pseudo-STAB on Water attacks, resistance to Fire-attacks, 100% accurate Thunder and Hurricane, and the abilities Rain Dish, Hydration, and best of all Swift Swim activated, among others. This doesn't help the non-Drizzle user as much as much as the Drizzle user, since the person using it is using it to abuse it, but it's the truth.
You don't like how your team works under Drizzle? YOU CHANGE THE WEATHER OR YOU CHANGE THE TEAM. You use your Tyranitar/Hippowdon/Abomasnow/Ninetales (or even Vulpix/Hippopotas/Snover; nah just kidding, don't use them cause they're shit). Or, you run a weather move. Either/or. Not adapting to weather just because you don't want to use weather yourself doesn't mean that weather is broken, it means you should SUCK IT UP AND USE WEATHER. Or don't and be good enough to get around it. Or you could join one of the 5+ other Pokemon metagames that don't have weather domination.
Those whole 2 paragraphs above? Not even related to that bolded sentence up top, but this one is; I just thought I'd get that out of the way. You see, when Drizzle comes out onto the field (let's assume the opponent starts it), nothing happens to the Pokemon in-play. Next turn, you make a move with your Pokemon, your opponent makes a move with theirs, it goes in a certain order depending on what moves you and your opponent have chosen and the Speed stats of your Pokemon including item, ability and stat boosts, each move goes off unless the first to go takes out the second, and the turn finalizes. This repeats until the game ends with a victor. What did Drizzle do on each of those turns? NOTHING. Sure, your opponent's Pokemon might have done something different than usual thanks to Drizzle, but that's just it; it was the Pokemon doing it. Not Drizzle.
In this sense, Stealth Rocks is more broken than Drizzle, seeing as, improbable as it may be, without a Magic Guard Pokemon on the team you could theoretically be 6-0ed solely through SR damage. Sandstorm, Hail and Spikes could do the same, but at least for those you have the pool of Rock/Ground/Steel/Ice/Overcoat/Flying/Levitate Pokemon to choose from as well respectively, but SR? Nope, just the 3 fully-evolved Magic Guard Pokemon and their pre-evos. But this isn't about SR being broken, cause it isn't; it's about Drizzle being even less broken, so it's not broken either.
Also, pretty much every argument on a Pokemon being broken has said something to the likes of "This Pokemon O/2/whatever-HKOs that other Pokemon with SR damage". Why the hell aren't we just doing this with the weathers? SR and weather are close to mechanically identical, with SR directly damaging Pokemon (differing in how much based on certain criteria, such as typing) and weather boosting Pokemon (differing in how much based on certain criteria, such as typing). If you consider weather as a field condition, like it should be, then tiering becomes much simpler, as we skip all this "what's actually broken" shit and get straight to Pokemon bans. All those Pokemon that are broken because they are boosted by Drizzle? They are unlike the rest of the 649 Pokemon in the game that aren't broken by Drizzle, which means they should be treated like those few Pokemon broken regardless of Drizzle, and be banned. Simple.
Also, while reading this thread, one post has stuck in my mind for something within it. I can't be bothered to find said post and confirm it even exists, but I believe it said something along the lines of, "Drizzle makes OU-worthy Pokemon broken, and non-OU-worthy Pokemon OU-worthy, so Drizzle should be banned". OK, Imma gonna go ahead and break this in half:
1. Who decided that said Pokemon were OU-worthy? If they are broken under Drizzle, then they are broken and above OU. There is no "OU-worthy" for anything, not even for Starmie and Gengar, and to say that anything is inherently "OU-worthy" shows a bias unfit for a competitive decision.
2. ...And? Some Pokemon that would otherwise not be in OU are in OU thanks to Drizzle. This means there are more Pokemon in OU with Drizzle than OU without, yes? Isn't that a... good thing? Other than that, it's pretty much the same as the above point; why should these Pokemon not be considered OU-worthy if being under Drizzle makes them OU-worthy? They don't just get an arbitrary not-OU-worthy status just because whoever said this that I don't know says so.
Honestly, my memory may be a little fuzzy, but this whole Drizzle debacle started not with Aldaron's Proposal, but in fact the Moody ban. When Moody was finally recognized as the broken piece of shit that it is, we decided to ban it. Don't get me wrong, Moody ban was completely justifiable; every Pokemon that had it was broken, even the ever-so-craptastic Bidoof. But, because Moody set a precedent for Ability bans, we thought, "Hey, we don't like this rain thing with Kingdra and all that noise, so why not ban Drizzle? After all, it's what gives them the boosts", and that was countered by "No man, banning Drizzle would be disasterous, as it would remove Rain Stall and other shit like that, so let's ban Swift Swim", and THAT was countered by, "No, cause Luvdisc and Magikarp ain't broken with Swift Swim, so we should ban Drizzle", and then Aldaron's proposal came and was seen as a temporary compromise to see if it was truly broken. Oh, and there was also a bit of "Neither Drizzle nor Swift Swim are broken, since a Pokemon has to have the right combination of things in order to be broken with either, so we should just ban the Pokemon". That was where I was at the end of the round, and that's where I am now.
For the whole "Testing the individual Swift Swimmers back into OU" thing, I was kinda thinking about this for a while, and was wondering if we might be able to test them backwards at a quicker pace while continuing Suspect Testing (if we would need to at all). What I mean is, we take all the Pokemon that we know are shitty even with Swift Swim, like Magikarp and Luvdisc, and we throw them back into OU. We wait a week, and then have a quick vote on whether anything is too overpowering somehow. If not, then we add in the next-weakest Pokemon in the line and repeat the above. We continue until we reach a point where the newly-added Pokemon breaks OU, at which point we keep that Pokemon in Ubers, and we can either skip to the next one to check if it's broken too, or just preempt how that will end up and keep the other Pokemon above said broken Pokemon in Ubers as well. Either way, Aldaron's Proposal is repealed and the Pokemon found broken are banned as a whole. As far as I can tell, here are some Pros and Cons:
Pros:
1. Can relatively quickly get through SSers
2. Doesn't overwhelm us with shit we are already 99% certain are broken
3. With a list made beforehand, players looking to abuse the more possibly-broken Pokemon can prepare for their temporary unban before it happens.
4. Can be done alongside any standard Suspect testing that may need to be done.
Cons:
1. Said weakest-to-strongest list would have to be made, and even then might not be accurate thanks to being mostly theorymon.
2. Shorter period may not be enough to accurately size each Pokemon up metagame-wise.
3. Would have to assume that Drizzle stays in the metagame, or to prevent that, would have to make Drizzle exempt from suspect testing (which I'm guessing some would not like that).
There are more that I thought of, but I'm such a scatterbrain that I already forgot them.
Thoughts?
One, you might notice that my post got a little calmer after the beginning. I cooled down a bit while typing this, but I'm not gonna bother editing the beginning. And two, in my last post there was a bit of it that was referring to a post by Nkululeko that sounded pretty pointed and was a bit hasty and not very well thought out. I apologize for said part of said post, since I didn't really think it through and it was a bit stupid anyways.
I honestly don't understand your whole wall of text argument. Your basis is that Drizzle doesn't do anything and just sits there, so we shouldn't ban it. That argument is filled with so many flaws, I just can't choose any single one to snipe at this moment. At that, I leave you with my final words:
I'm confused by Ninja's 13 argument too. When I first read it I thought he was being sarcastic to add dramatic emphasis to his argument, but after reading it again and again, I'm wondering if he is being serious?
I honestly can't tell...
EDIT: Could someone help me out here. Is he being serious or not?
i simply ignore it.
every weather have pros and contros, that's obvious, the discuss stay in wich weather gives you the more advantages then the others. Drizzle is clearly in this case.
Water is tipically a defensive/neutrally typing, with drizzle it can becomes an offensive type over beeing a defensive one, plus we have 100% Thunder/Hurricane (that the team that don't play Drizzle NOT using.) and steels gain a resistance (neutrally in most cases) of fire.
Nobody is using sand to counter drought. Sand users tend to see them as free wins. It also isn't worth mentioning that drought was overpowered in UU because UU is an entirely different metagame. What exactly is stopping Kyurem from rampaging OU as he did in UU? Steel types? We had those in UU; Registeel was already a good example. Fighting/steel priority? We also had that in the form of hitmontop and medicham.
Drought's problems in OU don't end at enemy weather. Drought usually has to specifically fit something in to handle dragons (and my, how cresselia sucks so badly at this). The few good chlorosweepers have four moveslot syndrome and heatran on a balloon is a sudden stop for most of them.
