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np: OU Suspect Testing Round 5 - Sandstorm (Excadrill/Thundurus Banned)
- Thread starter JabbaTheGriffin
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Dumb question, I'm assuming that you'll push the date back for the Suspect Testing, right?
Reflect Type Latias does pretty much run train on Sand Teams. Most Sand Teams have NOTHING to deal with a Calm Minding Levitating Steel-type or even Rock-type for that matter. Take out their Fighting-type early and if they lack ScarfTar or Superpower, that's kinda game over.
Common Sand Pokemon are T-tar, Hippo, Exca, Lando, Gliscor, Jirachi, Rotom-W, Scizor, & Ferro. If you copy Jirachi, Excadrill, or Ferrothorn's typing, they need Physical Fire, Fighting, or Grou-*trollface* to counter it, which is something Sandstorm teams usually lack outside of that one Fighting-type they might carry. After 2 Calm Mind, even if She picks up Excadrill's Ground-typing, Rotom-W isn't doing enough damage to take her out with anything but Tricking Specs onto her.
When she snags Jirachi's typing, she doesn't mind get Paralyed as Jirachi's only going to 30HKO her and will eventually PP stall Jirachi from her never wasting PP due to Flinch & Paralysis. Ferrothorn can't Leech Seed her if she copies his Grass-typing first. Excadrill can't touch her outside of that initial X-Scizzor if she's still Psychic or Dark-type. Landorus is in the same boat as Exca.
If a team diverts from the copy & paste Sand Teams we all see then yeah, they can stop Latias, but she generally laughs at OU Weather. She stops Drizzle & Sun teams pretty hard with just her Dragon-typing anyway outside of Toxic. It's a gimmick, but if you support it well & scout well, it's a gimmick that blows a giant hole in most of OU.
Common Sand Pokemon are T-tar, Hippo, Exca, Lando, Gliscor, Jirachi, Rotom-W, Scizor, & Ferro. If you copy Jirachi, Excadrill, or Ferrothorn's typing, they need Physical Fire, Fighting, or Grou-*trollface* to counter it, which is something Sandstorm teams usually lack outside of that one Fighting-type they might carry. After 2 Calm Mind, even if She picks up Excadrill's Ground-typing, Rotom-W isn't doing enough damage to take her out with anything but Tricking Specs onto her.
When she snags Jirachi's typing, she doesn't mind get Paralyed as Jirachi's only going to 30HKO her and will eventually PP stall Jirachi from her never wasting PP due to Flinch & Paralysis. Ferrothorn can't Leech Seed her if she copies his Grass-typing first. Excadrill can't touch her outside of that initial X-Scizzor if she's still Psychic or Dark-type. Landorus is in the same boat as Exca.
If a team diverts from the copy & paste Sand Teams we all see then yeah, they can stop Latias, but she generally laughs at OU Weather. She stops Drizzle & Sun teams pretty hard with just her Dragon-typing anyway outside of Toxic. It's a gimmick, but if you support it well & scout well, it's a gimmick that blows a giant hole in most of OU.
The set I posted was mainly to be used late game after your opponent's team has taken a bit of damage, kind of like SD Lucario. Yes, it does require its revengers to be disposed of before actually attempting to do anything, but I'd say it's worth it. Most teams will carry, at most, one of the pokemon capable of easily switching in and revenging Infernape (not counting scarf users).
What Infernape offers sun teams is a fast pokemon who can revenge and act on his own both inside and out of your weather (weather wars).
If you're looking to simply throw Infernape on a team without the hassle, then yeah, the set you posted works wonders.
Latias doesnt have to deal with status that often if he has sub which he almost always does. The only heatran sets that counter latias are tormentran and other sets that have roar but if they dont latias can just set up on it. And no one uses perish song except occasionally on toed.
I've seen a couple ScarfTar use Ice Beam before
You could say the same thing about Crunch, Pursuit, Stone Edge, or Superpower...
You really cant. Ice Beam is coming off of 95 base SAtk and requires you to spit EVs and doesn't get stab.
Speaking from experience, because it lets you laugh at physically defensive ground types without a Choice Scarf. Hello, Gliscor... Hi there, Donphan... 'sup Landorus w/out any boosts...
Thing is, I would always switch my Gliscor out of TTar (the first time in a match), because I know that most TTar carry Ice Beam. If anyone gets "surprised" with a TTar Ice Beam, then they must be pretty new.
Donphan is pretty much unseen in OU; it's definitely not worth using a moveslot for. Besides, 252 Ice Beam does 77.6% MAX to 252/0 Donphan, meaning you'll stomach an EQ anyway.
Landorus will rofl at you if it's the common Scarf variant, or if it has a Rock Polish up. Also, Landorus is not a "defensive Ground-type"; it gets 2HKOed by Stone Edge anyway (and sometimes even Crunch).
tl;dr
ScarfTar shouldn't go mixed.
That's actually a little depressing too. I've used Donphan on every team I've made, in 5th gen as my Rapid Spinner because it is just that good. That sturdy ability did wonders for it and I often wonder why Donphan is as low as it is. It deserves alot more usage.
If it's because it's outclassed as a bulky ground type, that really shouldn't be the case. Ice Shard and Rapid spin differentiate it from other Ground types.
Reasons donphan doesn't see much use? There are plenty. You don't want donphan on your team when fighting rain teams, and unlike forretress, he can't sit there in attempts to rapid spin against ferrothorn. The SD/taunt gliscor that most teams carry will use you as setup fodder, as ice shard does a pitiful amount of damage. And you really don't want to give Rotom-W another free switch in (if you want to use Seed bomb for that one pokemon, you can go right ahead...but what else are you hitting with that non-STAB grass attack?) At the end of the day, ice shard on donphan is way too weak and you'll only be using it to kill off something that was nearly dead anyway.
Why would sand teams use donphan when they've got tyranitar for rocks and excadrill for spinning? Why would rain teams use him when they've got ferrothorn and starmie? Sun teams don't want multiple water weaknesses even if their weather weakens the type. And non weather teams are too busy using ferrothorn and some other pokemon to set up rocks/rapin spin.
Donphan just has no place here.
Why would sand teams use donphan when they've got tyranitar for rocks and excadrill for spinning? Why would rain teams use him when they've got ferrothorn and starmie? Sun teams don't want multiple water weaknesses even if their weather weakens the type. And non weather teams are too busy using ferrothorn and some other pokemon to set up rocks/rapin spin.
Donphan just has no place here.
That would be: loads of my opponents. They started getting a bit better when I neared my peak score, though.
Yeah, but there are other targets, too. So the Ice Beam is useful on it as an added bonus. 252/0? Fine, give it some residual damage of about 35%, and you're golden.
It works in two ways. 1) as it switches in or 2) as I *think* I said, if it isn't at +2 or scarfed.
hmm. I guess we'll have to agree to disagree there.
If Scarftar is going to go mixed it should be for Fire Blast in my opinion, mostly due to the fact that Ferrothorns are much more willing to switch into Tar once they discover that it's scarfed. It also lets Tar threaten Skarmory, which is handy for a lot of offensive teams. Otherwise I think Superpower more than suffices, although I guess Fire Punch / Ice Punch / Aqua Tail are options too.
I've found the second ttar set the be the most effective, the specially defensive one that is all physical. Fire blast is the only really useful special move, as Gliscor won't try and EQ you until you are at 50% or below. Alot of Skarmory are specially defensive and can roost off your fire blast anyway, especially with misses. Now that chomp is gone ice beam isn't that useful. SR / Pursuit / Crunch / Superpower lets you pretty much beat Lati@s reliably as even bulky Latias can't setup on you. Superpower nails Exca, Terrakion, ect while also hitting other ttar. Rock slide is also incredibly useful over SR (if you have SR elsewhere) for Volcarona who you can tank out even at +1 LO.
I use an all physical ScarfTar. I would like to run Ice Beam on it, just for Gliscor, but it just doesn't seem worth it. I chose ScarfTar mainly to get things such a Thundurus, Tornadus, Lati@s, etc. It does that beautifully. I have found it does what it is expected to, and I have plenty of other team members to take out Gliscor and Skarmory and its other checks and counters
Many people use Ice Beam on Scarf Tyranitar because it does more damage to standard Gliscor than Ice Punch. Because Gliscor is extremely popular, this purpose alone makes the choice reasonable.
252 Atk Jolly Tyranitar Ice Punch vs. 252 HP/184 Def Impish Gliscor: 62.15% - 73.45%
0 SpA Jolly Tyranitar Ice Beam vs. 252 HP Gliscor: 84.75% - 100.56
Base power really does make quite a difference.
252 Atk Jolly Tyranitar Ice Punch vs. 252 HP/184 Def Impish Gliscor: 62.15% - 73.45%
0 SpA Jolly Tyranitar Ice Beam vs. 252 HP Gliscor: 84.75% - 100.56
Base power really does make quite a difference.
I guess I'm the only person who uses Physical RP Tar :P. It's pretty effective for surprise value.
I wouldn't imagine it'd be very effective in a metagame filled with Excadrill, Gliscor, Conkeldurr, and Skarmory...could you maybe give some examples of how it plays?
IIRC, RD said something like if the server is down, your rating can't decay or something...
I don't think so, last pre-server crash I was at 1320, and then after the server went back up I found myself at 1280.
Well, this sucks.
I was planning to do a shit-load of laddering to reach reqs(I was at #320 or something so it wouldn't take THAT long), but I gotta go on the 13th and wont be back until the 25th >.<
I was planning to do a shit-load of laddering to reach reqs(I was at #320 or something so it wouldn't take THAT long), but I gotta go on the 13th and wont be back until the 25th >.<
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