np: OU Suspect Testing Round 5 - Sandstorm (Excadrill/Thundurus Banned)

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Has anyone else been DC'ing a lot today?
I've tried ~20 battles on my alt and I've DC'ed almost every damn time. I've sat right next to my Wifi modem box thing. I've tried 4 different internet connections, including my own, my neighbors' and a nearby cafes'. I checked for a virus or a PO bug, and my computer said there were none.
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I had this problem alot. For some reason using a desktop computer seemed to work. Also update to the 1.23 client if you haven't.

Also if you like Scizor / Rotom try throwing in some spikes and a scarf Landorus or LO Meinshao. Works force a crapload of switches and then clean up lategame with something like deo-s.
 
FFS I know Rotom-W is cool, especially with Scizor, but ive seen it in more than 10 battles in a row now, all hail the new Ferrothorn!
 
Erm, what's so great about Scizor + Rotom-W? I know Scizor's fire weak is resisted, but I can't think of anything else.

What about Rotom-W + Nattorei?
 
Bring in Rotom on something it forces out (Heatran for example). Volt switch the switch in. Likely that Scizor or another U-turner will be able to force them out. Ect. get up some spikes / SR for entry hazard fun. Also make sure to pack a good stall breaker and possible spinner. I don't use Scizor for momentum teams because it is weak to spikes and that takes too much effort to remove.
 
So, you guys are talking about Choice Scizor + Choice Rotom-W?

Having two choice users in OU is a big deal, though, and I don't think it's a very good idea for your team.

Furthermore, using Rain is a good idea with these two, and Politoed's best sets are Scarf and Specs, so half of your team having choice items isn't a very good idea.
 
The rotom-W does not need to be choiced to simply run volt switch as one of it's moveset options.

The reason the combo is annoying is because it easily keeps momentum in your opponent's favor. You switch in something that can handle Scizor? Whoops, he just u-turned out to Rotom-W. That Heatran you just switched in now has to get the hell out of there. In the rain, this is especially annoying. I'm seeing people mentioning that Celebi and Shaymin with hp fire are great ways to stop the combo. They aren't. Hp fire doesn't ko Scizor at that point.

Outside of rain, it's...not really worth complaining about. Though I've started carrying Gastrodon recently, so that's probably it.

I've said this before, but it's not really worth editing your team for a team member who needs to stop a certain dedicated threat. You aren't going to win them all and it isn't possible to cover all of your bases with just six pokemon. This isn't to say that you shouldn't carry counters. Just don't rush off to find a counter once a strategy gets popular.

Anyway, do you guys have any good heatran partners that work well in sunlight? The best I could think of and tried using were torterra and jumpluff. And I really don't like switching torterra into CBTar, Rotom-W, Politoed, Infernape, Darmanitan(I haven't seen the latter two in weeks...no wonder I was getting away with it for a while).
 
^


move 1: Thunderbolt
move 2: Hydro Pump
move 3: Will-O-Wisp / Hidden Power Fire
move 4: Pain Split
item: Leftovers
ability: Levitate
nature: Modest
evs: 112 HP / 252 SpA / 144 Spe

I don't see Volt Switch, but I think it could actually be a good replacement for Will-O-Wisp, so it might be worth trying.

How about running Jirachi + Rotom-W + Scizor? You won't have to run a spinner since you can restore Scizor's health with Wish.

What are people's opinions about CB Scizor? Is it just not as good as bulky SD Scizor?
 
alphatron, you probably need 2 partners with that Heatran since that's a dynamic group of Heatran counters. I'd say Latias (such a great defensive typing) to absorb Fighting and Water attacks from the Fire and Water mons and a bulky Fighting Type for Ttar. There is the obvious Conkeldurr but Thick Fat Hariyama aint too shabby either (no Drain Punch, unfortunately, but packs an Ice Punch).
 
On the contrary, I think CB Scizor and LO Scizor are way better than bulky SD Scizor. Why?

It's because bulky SD Scizor is weak as dirt. After I while, I realized that the things CB and LO Scizor would normally counter or check didn't need to switch out of it anymore. Why switch out my gengar when I can live through the incoming bullet punch and hp fire him? Nasty plot azelf? Takes about 37% of it's health from bullet punch. Specially bulky scizor is a counter to latios? Specially bulky scizor fails to counter life orb latios in any kind of weather, even after the draco meteor. If latios has more than 40% of it's health, then it fails to check it too.

You can't even kill tyranitar with bullet punch or bug bite, and he'll just live through the damage and kill you with fire blast.

I find the set to be terrible. It can turn weak walls into setup fodder and boost up in their faces, severely damaging the enemy team in the process before it goes down. But the weak walls I'm talking about aren't all that popular outside of blissey and ferrothorn. Whenever I used sp.D Scizor, he was good against stall teams that tried to handle him as if he were a CB/Lo Scizor. He also perfoemed well against a couple of slow boosting pokemon who needed a lot of boosts to be able to sweep (not gyarados or volcorona), but he failed against just about everything else.

Not to mention, unboosted bullet punch doesn't even break through chandelure's subs. >_>

Not all rotom-W run the standard smogon set, nor is anyone forced to. Most of the rotom-W I've seen run Volt Switch over pain split or thunderbolt now.

@Pocket: I've already been using latias, but I kept missing the fact that heatran couldn't get by simply by relying on her. I'll look into my fighting type options.
 
6 Sword Dances? Really? A pokemon stat is maxed at +6, and SD gives +2 in Atk, so Scizor attack would be maxed after 3 SDs.

Also, CB acts like a +1, meaning you will only deal 50% more damage than without it, while after a SD you would do 100% than without it.

Im not saying that SD Scizor is superior, just that your argument fails...
 
Pombo said:
6 Sword Dances? Really? A pokemon stat is maxed at +6, and SD gives +2 in Atk, so Scizor attack would be maxed after 3 SDs.

Also, CB acts like a +1, meaning you will only deal 50% more damage than without it, while after a SD you would do 100% than without it.

Im not saying that SD Scizor is superior, just that your argument fails...
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You're too narrow-minded. CB Scizor has an immediate offense advantage, while SD Scizor aims to increase it's offense, which still isn't enough, so it fails at it's goal. In the offense category, CB Scizor has an immediate advantage without needing to set up (coupled with the fact that it has more moves available), and it therefore wins. SD Scizor may also not even be able to set up. CB Scizor has the opportunity to do more damage throughout the game with U-turn abuse. In fact, +2 SD Scizor has almost the same attack has CB Scizor.

I'm trying to make a team that takes advantage of Rotom-W + CB Scizor. So far I have Scarf Politoed, Wish Jirachi, CB Scizor, Rotom-W and Latios. I can't decide on the Latios moveset and the final slot. Any suggestions?
 
Remember you should probably invest at least a good 200 EVs into special defense on any Scizor if you actually don't want a joke counter to Latios. Running 248 / 32 / 224 on a CBer lets you take a draco meteor decently so you can pursuit or BP if it isn't a specs user. If you run just LO with 4 hp you can't switch in at all where at least you can soak up a meteor with specially defensive.
 
But with that set, bullet punch won't ohko and a non choiced latios will then try to pick you off with hp fire.

On that latios set, I'd personally go with LO Recover and three attacks. Draco meteor, thunder, and surf. If you don't want to run recover, then dragon pulse (dragon STAB when you don't want to cut your attack) and psychic/psyshock are good choices.

The last pokemon should be either a celebi or a virizion imo, as they both handle the few pokemon who both Scizor and Rotom-W can't easily work together to take down.
 
You are not going for the bullet punch, you are switching in on a meteor or surf and trapping with pursuit. This way you don't have to switch in again if they flee. If you take a meteor and then they switch out of bullet punch you can't switch in again.
 
I am of the opinion that the move Baton Pass is broken in Overused (in addition to Underused), in part due to Espeon's newfound access to Baton Pass. SmashPass is hard enough deal with as is, but dedicated Baton Pass teams require either some luck or very niche/dedicated Pokemon or moves to be stopped reliably.

Bottom line, I shouldn't be forced to use otherwise deadweight Pokemon/moves to defeat a strategy that requires minimal skill to use.
 
Eggbert said:
You are not going for the bullet punch, you are switching in on a meteor or surf and trapping with pursuit. This way you don't have to switch in again if they flee. If you take a meteor and then they switch out of bullet punch you can't switch in again.
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In that instance, it only works on choiced latios then. But at least it works.
 
It is still adamant CB, just with 200 EVs less in attack. It will still be able to revenge kill a somewhat weakened LO Latios, especially with sand and LO damage. It's a 100 times more effective that the regular CBer against Latios.

I've only faced a few baton pass teams and I've lost to them all when I didn't have my Quagsire. Mew can pass nasty plot, swords dance, and rock polish as well as taunt. This is when I though I could stop baton pass by having a Skarmory on my team but if you don't have a Quagsire your only chance is really to just setup a strong sweeper (gl if they have taunt mew) and damage their team before they can get and acid armor and speed boost to Espeon. Espeon does all the sweeping and it's actually nearly unstoppable with the mentioned boosts.
 
Queen Kyurem said:
The newfound annoyance of the Rotom/Scizor combo and Toxicock, combined with the proven brokenness of Manaphy + SS + possibly Thundurus, only serves to reinforce my thoughts from the beginning:

Fuck Drizzle.

That is all.
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I agree that banning Politoed(nothing else gets Drizzle and therefore there is no justification that the ability is broken as only a single pokemon in OU gets it) would be the best option to deal with the constant Rain team complaints but it seems that nothing short of the Second Coming of reachzero is going to make Smogon to ban a weather. You'd think with all the complaints Rain as a playstyle is getting people would be citing support clause left and right to say Toed is broken but I guess 5th Gen is the bend over backwards to keep weather OU generation.
 
Eggbert said:
I've only faced a few baton pass teams and I've lost to them all when I didn't have my Quagsire. Mew can pass nasty plot, swords dance, and rock polish as well as taunt. This is when I though I could stop baton pass by having a Skarmory on my team but if you don't have a Quagsire your only chance is really to just setup a strong sweeper (gl if they have taunt mew) and damage their team before they can get and acid armor and speed boost to Espeon. Espeon does all the sweeping and it's actually nearly unstoppable with the mentioned boosts.
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I agree with this. BP is insanely hard to stop now with magic mirror espeon. Skarmory has a chance if instead of trying to phaze it, you predict the espeon switch in and just BB.

Quagsire and setting up something like DD nite alongside them also work to an extent. Apart from that, the only thing that isn't completely outside the realm of OU (lol haze lol) is probably prankster taunt as they get taunted before they can BP to espeon.
 
Queen Kyurem said:
I was about to cite PO as an example of doing something right by banning Toed, but I checked and he was legal again on their server. When did this happen?
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Checking their site, it looks like they're nearing the end of their process for deciding whether to ban it or not. Currently they have it up to a vote that anyone with a rating higher than 1000 can vote in, but all votes are weighted by the formula: http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3508/5793483795_7229762385_b.jpg. Apparently, they are going to make a final decision on Wednesday.
 
Baton Pass has always been "really good" but also insanely hard to pull off. Espeon is the only reason why it's viable in BW OU at all, and it's not a difficult pokemon to kill off. Its defenses and defensive typing are pretty bad. Too much strong offense for BP to reliably set up.
 
jrrrrrrr said:
Baton Pass has always been "really good" but also insanely hard to pull off. Espeon is the only reason why it's viable in BW OU at all, and it's not a difficult pokemon to kill off. Its defenses and defensive typing are pretty bad. Too much strong offense for BP to reliably set up.
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It actually sets up pretty reliably in my experience. Gliscor walls a lot of the major physical threats in OU. Vaporeon and Mew can also come in on quite a lot of things and get those defenses set up and once that gets going, it's pretty much game over.

Baton pass's weakness in the past has always been smeargle having to set up ingrain early on. That's where it had the highest chance of failing. You don't need to do that anymore with magic mirror espeon which gives you a slot for a less useless pokemon. Also I don't see many things with roar/whirlwind outside skarm anymore really. A lot of things use dragon tail which gets blocked by sub.
 
I lose to baton pass teams when I lose the offensive race, which happens every now and then. The only baton pass team I fought which had me completely helpless was one in which my opponent's passer pokemon could phaze as well. And I faced that guy on the ladder about three times. Consistently lost. Hey dragonite, what are you doing, using dragontail on espeon for? Espeon used roar! Get that shit outta my face.

Probably would have had a better chance had I been carrying a...you guessed it! Tyranitar! (Houndoom would have worked too. Oh well).
 
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