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np: OU Suspect Testing Round 5 - Sandstorm (Excadrill/Thundurus Banned)
- Thread starter JabbaTheGriffin
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That's alright, i have an awesome spinner and spinblocker so that isn't happening. Besides, my getting up SR and SS is almost always what happens(Especiallly if you have a d-nite as i might just sac myself for an SR), you doing all that isn't.
And i never said hippo could beat it, i just said it could break its multiscale.
And if you notice, i said lefties d-nite was actually dangerous as hell. I merely said that non-lefties sets are lolbait.
And i never said hippo could beat it, i just said it could break its multiscale.
And if you notice, i said lefties d-nite was actually dangerous as hell. I merely said that non-lefties sets are lolbait.
You should not be comparing Salamence to Dragonite as they function completely differently. Salamence is used for its higher initial speed and Intimidate to get that Dragon Dance off while Dragonite utilizes Multi-scale to survive a strong hit and strike back with a boosted attack. However, Dragonite is slightly more reliant on spin support due to its ability being nullified by Stealth Rock. That being said, if Dragonite runs Roost (which it probably will), then it can reactivate Multiscale even with Stealth Rock on the field. And that is why Dragonite can be much more threatening than Salamence, who is owned by Ice Shards and the like. Dragonite also has much more bulk, so even without Multiscale active, it can take a hit or two, unlike Salamence. /end
What is the set you prefer for Virizion ? The physical one or the special one ?
I prefer the physical one. I hate the accuracy of Focus Blast. And as seen as it's his best special attack, it seems unreliable. Giga drain is nice to recover health, but it's not that strong. At least, with CC and Leaf Blade, I have reliable STAB despite his health is depleted quickly with Life Orb.
What do you think ?
I prefer the physical one. I hate the accuracy of Focus Blast. And as seen as it's his best special attack, it seems unreliable. Giga drain is nice to recover health, but it's not that strong. At least, with CC and Leaf Blade, I have reliable STAB despite his health is depleted quickly with Life Orb.
What do you think ?
You're probably the only person on the ladder with a Hippowdon, Tehy. Even then, a well played mixnite rapes your stall team, and you don't have to be a genius to use it with team preview revealing your whole team. >.>
On another note, I've been having fun with Scarf Kyurem. Spikes abuse+Blizzard from 394 Special Attack = win. Also count in the fact most of it's initial switchins have hard counters like Heatran for Specially Defensive Jirachi. Hail is actually really underrated and fun to use once you get the hang of it.
On another note, I've been having fun with Scarf Kyurem. Spikes abuse+Blizzard from 394 Special Attack = win. Also count in the fact most of it's initial switchins have hard counters like Heatran for Specially Defensive Jirachi. Hail is actually really underrated and fun to use once you get the hang of it.
I've found stockpileopotomus to be pretty good when I tried it out a while ago. If he gets up to +2 he's a bitch to take down, and slack off is great. Roar + SR shuffling is superb for denting down the opponents team before you send out any of your next 5 pokemon. Taunt shuts him down but if he gets going..
I prefer the special set. It is an excellent switch in to pokemon such as Rotom-W, and you can set up a couple Calm Minds. Also, Grass + Fighting Stab works better specially then it does physically. You also aren't hampered by burns and such; Giga Drain is always nice for restoring HP as well.
The whole point of using Dragonite over Salamence is to abuse Multiscale with Roost... >.>
It is not inferior if it is played completely differently.
Actually, an LO all-out-attacker set, if it lacks outrage, is walled by hippowdon, even if he has to switch in. The DD set is still beaten down pretty damn hard.
And the set i use was originally stockpile hippowdon, who is a fucking god of sex. After a stockpile he's nearly unbreakable, and forget about it after two. Beaten down by status, though.
And the set i use was originally stockpile hippowdon, who is a fucking god of sex. After a stockpile he's nearly unbreakable, and forget about it after two. Beaten down by status, though.
But i said that already. Before you even posted.
tehy's saying that Dragonite is great with Multiscale activated. Once Multiscale is broken, then it is inferior to Salamence. Leftovers and / or Roost keeps Multiscale activated - Lum or LO Nite has their Multiscale broken by Sandstream damage, so they are inferior to Salamence.
They're not inferior. -.-
When will people ever get over that logic? The difference between mixmence and mixnite in the lead position is that mixnite can actually take a hit and hit back harder, whereas salamence is relying on its crappy speed (well, for this metagame) and lesser attacking stats (Dragonite can afford to go all out, where as Salamence can't on its EVs).
I don't understand the last statement at all. Salamence has higher special attack than Dragonite, and you're saying that Salamence can't afford to go all out? I don't understand. Are you saying that Salamence can't go all out on it's attacking stats because it has to invest in speed? Wouldn't speed just make Salamence better? Once again, I don't understand.
Huh? When has Dragonite ever hit harder? Dragonite's niche over Salamence will always be it's defenses. Sticking LO on a Multi-Scale Poke is near pointless because you're going to be trying to play around it like you have a balloon or something and avoid getting hits so you can get off that one revenge kill.
And you forget the difference where Salamence might not need to take a hit cause it's still outspeeding quite a couple things that Dragonite won't be able to, most notably being Haxorous, Specs Rotoms, Hydreis, and Heatrans.
If you're going to use a Mix-Nite, then it's inferior to Mence. If you're using a Bulky DD-Nite, then it's far SUPERIOR to Mence. Don't pull that bullshit where there's a certain 'logic' to which is better always.
And you forget the difference where Salamence might not need to take a hit cause it's still outspeeding quite a couple things that Dragonite won't be able to, most notably being Haxorous, Specs Rotoms, Hydreis, and Heatrans.
If you're going to use a Mix-Nite, then it's inferior to Mence. If you're using a Bulky DD-Nite, then it's far SUPERIOR to Mence. Don't pull that bullshit where there's a certain 'logic' to which is better always.
You guys obviously didn't get what I was saying. -.-
Salamence has to run this much EVs in both attacks to equal Max Atk/Max Sp atk Dragonite.
Salamence (M) @ Life Orb
Trait: Intimidate
EVs: 244 Atk / 172 SAtk / 92 Spd
Rash Nature (+SAtk, -SDef)
Now, it hits 259 Speed. That's enough to outpace the 244 Speed bracket, but what else is it outspeeding and beating that Dragonite can not beat?
Now, if you give it Speed which it desperately needs to beat things like Haxorus and Hydreigon, Dragonite is hitting harder than it.
You're right that Dragonite is losing against things like Haxorus and Hydreigon (not sure about Specs rotom, though). However, it shouldn't even be fighting those two in the first place and E-speed hurts them a lot.
You see what I mean now?
Hmmm, actually, Salamence can run a naughty nature, get the same amount of attack and 9 points less special attack (319), so the difference in Special attack isn't as large as the gain in speed which now maxes out at 372 before his attacking stats become totally inferior to Dragonite's. That's enough to outspeed Heatran (Timid still beats you), and that's it I guess. Just thought i'd throw that out there.
Salamence has to run this much EVs in both attacks to equal Max Atk/Max Sp atk Dragonite.
Salamence (M) @ Life Orb
Trait: Intimidate
EVs: 244 Atk / 172 SAtk / 92 Spd
Rash Nature (+SAtk, -SDef)
Now, it hits 259 Speed. That's enough to outpace the 244 Speed bracket, but what else is it outspeeding and beating that Dragonite can not beat?
Now, if you give it Speed which it desperately needs to beat things like Haxorus and Hydreigon, Dragonite is hitting harder than it.
You're right that Dragonite is losing against things like Haxorus and Hydreigon (not sure about Specs rotom, though). However, it shouldn't even be fighting those two in the first place and E-speed hurts them a lot.
You see what I mean now?
Hmmm, actually, Salamence can run a naughty nature, get the same amount of attack and 9 points less special attack (319), so the difference in Special attack isn't as large as the gain in speed which now maxes out at 372 before his attacking stats become totally inferior to Dragonite's. That's enough to outspeed Heatran (Timid still beats you), and that's it I guess. Just thought i'd throw that out there.
But if you're running max special attack and attack, you're running a life orb mixed set, in which speed is still preferable to bulk, unless you have magic guard.
And thank you pocket for that, that IS what i meant. And mixmence can still hit harder, since it can just invest maximum in special attack.
Besides, base 80 speed means some WALLS can probably outspeed you, like gliscor and (Admittedly under used) deoxys-D. Also many tyranitars. Mence can outspeed them.
And thank you pocket for that, that IS what i meant. And mixmence can still hit harder, since it can just invest maximum in special attack.
Besides, base 80 speed means some WALLS can probably outspeed you, like gliscor and (Admittedly under used) deoxys-D. Also many tyranitars. Mence can outspeed them.
It's actually preferable that Tyranitar outspeeds you (but most don't ;]) since Multiscale cushions Stone Edge and you can get the KO with Brick Break or EQ+E-speed. Gliscor outspeeds you and then is doing what? Ice Fang is doing 65% average I believe and that is without MS. IMO, that's just pitiful. Both of them aren't beating Deo-D anyway, so idk about that point. Outspeeding things doesn't matter with MS. It's actually preferred that you are slow enough to take the first hit and KO back after. Dragonite does that fine.
btw, any opinions on scarf kyurem? My last few posts were totally ignored. XD
Lol, "pitiful"? Gliscor has SD you know.
And the only t-tars that outspeed you are probably the ones you don't want to anyways.
Scarf kyuremu has power, but constantly switching in someone with that typing requires heavy spin support, and it's not fast enough to be a revenge killer either.
And the only t-tars that outspeed you are probably the ones you don't want to anyways.
Scarf kyuremu has power, but constantly switching in someone with that typing requires heavy spin support, and it's not fast enough to be a revenge killer either.
I just threw together a crummy hail team to try scarf Kyurem. If you can keep SR off the field it's actually pretty good with Forretress for spinning, especially since it can actually hit all of its switch ins except Jirachi. I ran Draco Meteor / Blizzard / Dragon Pulse / Focus Blast with Modest and 100 Hp / 252 SpA / 156 Spe to beat adamant max Dragonite and politoed. The problem is that if SR isn't off the field and they do have Jirachi then Kyurem isn't doing anything. Abamasnow itself is also pretty good with sub seed and focus punch to lure in ttar and Heatran.
Yes, pitiful. lol
It's not setting up on Dragonite since DM KOs.
I use scarf Kyurem as a cleaner, not a revenge killer, but it can do that az well. It still hits hard with Blizzard and 394 special attack. Spikes makes Jirachi cry. lol
Eggbert, yes. That's what I meant. I'm also using that same abomsnow. XD Heatran solves many of hail's problems like volcarona. My spinner is an excadril. Jellicent isn't switching in, and sand insurance is awesome.
It's not setting up on Dragonite since DM KOs.
I use scarf Kyurem as a cleaner, not a revenge killer, but it can do that az well. It still hits hard with Blizzard and 394 special attack. Spikes makes Jirachi cry. lol
Eggbert, yes. That's what I meant. I'm also using that same abomsnow. XD Heatran solves many of hail's problems like volcarona. My spinner is an excadril. Jellicent isn't switching in, and sand insurance is awesome.
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