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Stall Possible in D/P?

Warthog

Warthog

is a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Battle Simulator Moderator Alumnus
This is a bit more than a RMT but a disscussion if stall is possible in this metagame. Usually we figure out how to stall in these metagames, overtime, but this is my chance to think up ways to stall. Basic idea of any stall team, is to be able to switch into anything that your opponet throws at you and set up a barrier, Spikes, Toxic and Phazers slowly wipe away HP then a monster comes in and finishes the job.

now this team isnt perfect, as this is the first time of actually looking threw pokemon RMTs and seeing what may work in the metagame. I seriously added Bronzong and Mismagius, then decided to build a team around it.

Starmie @ Leftovers
Trait: Natural Cure
EVs: 40 HP 216 Speed 252 SATT
Timid (+SPD -ATT)
- Psychic
- Thunderbolt
- Rapid Spin
- Recover

Bronzong @ Leftovers
Trait: Levitate
EVs 252 HP 252 DEF
Impish Nature (+Def -SATT)
- Stealth Rock
- Toxic
- Reflect
- Earthquake

Mismagius @ Leftovers
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 236 HP / 20 Def / 252 SDef
Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
- Confuse Ray
- Pain Split
- Shadow Ball
- Will-o-Wisp/Thunder Wave

Carchomp @ Leftovers
Trait: Sand Veil
EVs 252 Speed 252 ATT
Jolly Nature (+Speed - SATT)
- Dragon Claw
- Earthquake
- Fire Blast
- Swords Dance

Suicune @ Leftovers
Trait: Pressure
EVs: 240 HP / 172 Def / 96 Spd
Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
- Calm Mind
- Rest
- Ice Beam/Roar
- Surf

Blissey @ Leftovers
Trait: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 HP 252 DEF
Bold (+DEF - ATT)
- Seismic Toss
- Heal Bell
- Ice Beam
- Softboilded
 
Sorry but CBTar comes and Crunches your team to hell....

I really think that Stalling ain't possible in D/P, you need to be more Offense Oriented (i'm not saying to not use any Defensive oriented Pokes...)
 
well those are the types of replies I want, so thanks.

and yeah, anything with Crunch will probably reck this. Ill see what i can do.

also, when ADV came out, everyone said stall was impossible as well.. it will just take awhile for me and others to test on D/P if this possible or not.
 
Before a stall team can come into play and be effective at stalling I feel that the metagame should be setted first before such a team can be made.
 
yeah I said that in my opening sentence.. I already know this, its just something I wanted to discuss because everyone here is looking at the aggro and over looking the control aspect of DP atm.

Torterra is possible pokemon I may add in here if T-tar ever becomes a problem. I liked the ST variation Ive seen on here before.
 
Now, I'm not all that familiar with even the Advance metagame, so help me out here. How is this a stalling team? I mean, you've got a team of counters, but you only have one Pokémon with a Spikes-type move, Bronzong with Stealth Rock. If you're planning on creating situations in which your opponent is forced to switch, I'd throw Toxic Spikes somewhere in here, too. Maybe a regular Spikes-user just for good measure.

If you only have one Spiker, and it faints and your opponent has Rapid Spin, the only other thing that really benefits from stall tactics is the burn from Mismagius's Will-O-Wisp.

Now, again, I'm not an expert on the existing metagame, so I'm probably way off-base here. How do battles with teams like this usually play out?
 
since I know GSC and ADV metagames well enough, Ill explain how stall works. Ill even give you an example of a stall team in ADV.

standard stall in ADV

Skarmory - Spiker/Phazer. DEF wall
Dusclops - blocks rapid spin, Def/SDEF wall
Suicune - counters Metagross/Mence/T-tar (all to an extent) Phy. Wall Phazer.
Claydol - Spinner, combined with Skarm covers all physical weaknesses.
Blissey - Special wall and healer.
Salamence/Zapdos - Sweeper.

you some how send in Skarmory, set three layer of spikes. You block Rapid Spin with Dusclops, get Suicune and Skarmory in again to phaze to deal some damage. You then switch when ever you are met with a threat, example being Zapdos on Skarm. You switch to Blissey, make it switch and you repeat the process over again.

as you pointed out, its a team of counters and nothing more. Thats the idea of stall.

now for D/P.. I took the same ideas..

Starmie- Spinner, counters Gyarados.
Bronzong- lays Stealth Rock, counter Chomp somewhat and has great resistances.
Mismagius- annoyer and blocks Rapid Spin. Doubles as a special wall.
Carchomp- sweeper
Suicune- phazer, although I dunno how well this would work in the DP metagame.
Blissey- Healer and special wall.

as you see I added the same elements to this team as I did the last. Nothing special. No glaring weakness off the top of most peoples heads.
 
Yes, but he was also saying stall does nothing by itself inherently. Spikes are needed badly and after your ghost goes down, nothing can stop them from Rapid Spinning all your work away time and time again.

That alone says nothing about the fact that there is no universal Skarmbliss anymore as Bliss dies to PZ Tri-Attack and Skarm dies to Cross Close Combat. The best respective walls in the game can no longer wall the best attackers in the game, something that has NEVER happened before in pokemon. You used to be able to send out Blissey and assume the special sweeper needed 3 or 4 calm minds to damage you, now an AG/Scheme Alakazam/Azelf can wreck you with Focus Bomb.
 
Yeah, a bulkier ghost and Spikes are needed before this well ever work. Dusknoir + Shed Shell Skarmory for Advance style Ghostspikes. This team does have a big weakness to Heracross, Alakazam, and CBTyranitar, probably others but those are the first that come to mind.

I don't think it'll work though, since special attackers like Alakazam and PorygonZ are just going to boost and 1 or 2HKO Blissey, and then your whole team collapses. Attackers in general don't seem like they can be walled so easily, so I don't think the idea of a pure stalling team will work.
 
i think that you are right in your assessment that once the metagame settles down and certain pokes become standards stall teams will come back into play, but while people are experimenting to see what works well and what doesn't stalling will be quite difficult. i don't know nintendo or gamefreak's stance on internet battling but with the obviously more offensive oriented generation and the special/ physical split it seems that they are trying to keep the long drawn out battles to a minimum. it just makes finding that great stall team much sweeter. :-)
 
hmm thanks for all your input, I appreciate it.

Not gonna drop the idea yet, I suppose Ill just have to test this once Comp. comes out to the public. But from what I was just told by all of you, this isnt possible, at least as of yet. I expected as much. Ill just have to break it like vespa put it, when the metagame settles down.
 
The best kind of stall that has hardly been talked about is FakeOut/Protect abuse to screw with choice item users and rack damage up in a sandstorm or with toxic spikes.

If I were to pick any stall team (and I already have, something similar to ADH's Bleed is going to be my leading stall team), I would not focus on being as much a damage sponge as a damage avoider. There's a huge difference.

Volt Absorb, Electric Engine, Flash Fire, Water Absorb, Ground-type, Ghost-type, Dark-type, Steel-type, Flying/Levitate, Clefable's Magic Guard, Intimidaters, Sand Veil, maybe even Shedinja... all are more important than can be imagined in a world of OHKOs and 2HKOs. Well, that's my theory at least.
 
http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=17279

My stall team! They are surprisingly similar..

I think for stalling to work though, you are gonna have to work a lot harder, But I am not entirely convinced it wont be possible. Some other advantages to a stall team is they are generally most effective against counter offensive teams. Items like adherance scarf can put a halt on any hyper offensive team, but against stall an ASer is basically a waste of a pokemon.

Possibly some other GSC type moves that largely fell out of use in RS might be necessary to get around the sheer strength of some attackers.. Reflect, Lightscreen, Encore, Knock Off.. Crap like that..

Yeah, and you definitely need a fighting counter..

Have a nice day.
 
I'd suggest Spiritomb over Mismagius... it can tank better, and removes one of your Dark weaknesses. Just a suggestion.
 
Spiritomb also gets STAB on Pursuit, which can kill your opponent's spinner if its name is Claydol or Starmie. Good thing their spinner probably is Claydol or Starmie, since it's not like there are many others...stupid Defog.
 
You've got some serious problems with Weavile. He can easily come in on Starmie and Pursuit it. Mismagius can burn him, but he's got a 75% chance of a free switch-in which is why X-Act's suggestion of using Spiritomb sounds like a good idea.

You're relying on Bronzong having a Reflect up to take hits from Weavile and since it doesn't have Gyro Ball it can't do a great deal of damage to him. I'd consider dropping Toxic for Gyro Ball as Spiritomb's Will-O-Wisp should suffice to wear down opponents, admittedly not as well as poison though.
 
To take hits from Gyarados reliably you'll probably want to invest in Starmie's Defense more and use Thunderbolt on it over Psychic, otherwise Dragon Dance/Taunt/Waterfall/Earthquake sweeps you. I'd also put Rest on Bronzen Dong or get Wish Blissey to pass to it.
 
EVs: 172 HP / 200 Spd / 136 SAtk
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)

Those are Jumpman's EVs for Starmie from his last RMT thread.

You won't outspeed Gengar, but between Bronzong (if he's got Gyro Ball), Blissey and Spiritomb (if you use it) it shouldn't be a problem.

Consider Bronzong as your lead too. Many of the proposed leads can't hurt him much and you'll get an early Stealth Rock in.

Watch out for enemy Garchomp too. Suicune can't OHKO it with your current EVs and Bronzong is 2HKOed by a Fire Blast or Swords Danced Fire Fang, so getting up a Reflect might be a problem.
 
I suggest Dusknoir over Mismagius, because otherwise you have a glaring Heracross weakness. Swampert/Hippowdon and Skarmory over Suicune and Bronzong alleviates your Tyranitar weakness and cover the same functions as Cune and Bronzong.
 
I like Spiritomb over any other ghost due to the ubiquity of Pursuit. The downside is, I'm not sure if Spiritomb can cover both physical hits from Donphan and special attacks from Starmie...
 
hmm Spiritomb is that new Dark/Ghost correct? Then I may take a look into it. The only thing though, one of the reasons Ive chose Mismagius was its Levitate ability.

I like those EVs on Starmie that Jump provided, thanks.
 
Max HP/Defense Spiritomb takes 29 - 34% from a 276 Attack Donphan's Earthquake. The same Spiritomb takes 40 - 47% from a 299 Special Attack Starmie's Surf. You can probably make his defenses a little more equal if you want to take less from Starmie, or even invest a little in Attack.

Will-O-Wisp/Pain Split/Pursuit/Sucker Punch could work.

Here's his Serebii dex link.

http://www.serebii.net/pokedex-dp/442.shtml
 
Im going with what i think about stall in d/p. Its not really possible. If blissey is taking 50%+ from some special attacks and skarm is taking 50% from a very popular physical move then it wont be easy. You will have to be relying more on resistance than walls.
 
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