np: OU Suspect Testing Round 5 - Sandstorm (Excadrill/Thundurus Banned)

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Shrang and Armarilo said pretty much everything I needed to say but id like to nitpick this line

Any set running more than 2 support moves is stopped cold by any any decently fast Taunter or Prankster+Taunt user. Any fast Sub user will also use it as a setup bait. Un-STAB'd Dragon Tail coming off 90 base attack will fail to break most Subs, losing its phazing properties.
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O.k, your Prankster Taunters are

Thundurus (suspect)
Tornados
Whimsicott

All of those pokemon are not enjoying taking a Dragon Tail to the face AND will hate taking an Ice Beam. So, you are left with Taunters. Right, Lugia has 110 base speed, seriously, your fastest Taunter is Deoxys S and then its, err, Mew. Taunters are hard to find in OU, finding one to outspeed Lugia and take repeated hits (like something not scared of Ice Beam/Dragon tail is pretty hard.

Lastly 90 Base Atk is not as bad as you make out. Granted, Dragon tail is unSTABed, but that attack stat is the same as Virizions or Scrafty so don't dismiss it so lightly
 
I'd bring down Ho-Oh before I even considered bringing down Lugia. Seriously, a Multiscale set with Recover can laugh at your +6 Reuniclus.
 
Lugia in OU is just broken. It is way too bulky, especially with Multiscale. I mean Dragonite can already take Ice attacks with Multiscale...imagine that power on a pokemon with no 4x weaknesses, better HP, and better defenses. Oh, and it can phaze too, and get instant recovery.
 
Why the **** would you even consider bringing Lugia down into OU? You really can't take it down with anything other than Wobbufett+Tyranitar/Scizor. As everyone else has said before, the SubRoost and CM sets would absolutely decimate OU. Who cares if its typing isn't that great? Rotom-W can't even 2HKO with Volt Switch. Starmie can't even @2HKO with Thunderbolt blahblahblahblahblah. Oh, and Lugia might not be as good a special wall as Blissey, but it's also probably the best physical wall bar Skarmory as well. When you have something thats top 3 in both physical and special defense, you have something damn near impossible to take down. Lugia's 110 base speed is nothing to scoff at either. Even with no investment, it instantly becomes the fastest dedicated wall in OU, which is really good for Dragon Tail/ Whirlwind. Lugia's typing allows it to take the common fighting attacks that plague OU with ease. Hell, the thing can take Outrages and Draco Meteors from Ubers. It'll surely be able to fend off the onslaught of the Dragonites, Latioses, Salamences, and Hydreigons just as well. So you've basically got something that checks the two most common offensive types in the game.
 
TheMasterOfOz said:
Lugia in OU is just broken. It is way too bulky, especially with Multiscale. I mean Dragonite can already take Ice attacks with Multiscale...imagine that power on a pokemon with no 4x weaknesses, better HP, and better defenses. Oh, and it can phaze too, and get instant recovery.
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It'd be like sticking Dragonite in RU. You just can't think about it. -.-

So, I've been using Shaymin lately. I remember back in DPP where there was a period towards the end when Shaymin was popular (particularly the LO set). Whatever happened to that? It didn't change and still has dat Seed Flare to wreck Rain teams and easily lure out Ferrothorn (you can pretty much set up anything you want at this point >.>). Best part is watching Sandstorm teams flail when trying to beat the hedgehog. lol
 
MetaGross66 said:
It'd be like sticking Dragonite in RU. You just can't think about it. -.-

So, I've been using Shaymin lately. I remember back in DPP where there was a period towards the end when Shaymin was popular (particularly the LO set). Whatever happened to that? It didn't change and still has dat Seed Flare to wreck Rain teams and easily lure out Ferrothorn (you can pretty much set up anything you want at this point >.>). Best part is watching Sandstorm teams flail when trying to beat the hedgehog. lol
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Dragon types happened. Shaymin's best set is the SubSeed set, which gets walled hard by dragons. All out offensive sets with HP Ice is just... underwhelming.
 
Ridiculously fast and powerful shit of this Gen, along with legal Latis makes Shaymin's life miserable. It's not really a bad Pokemon, it's just in a metagame where everything is stacked against it.

The "good speed stat" threshold jumping from 100 to 108 is probably a good part of it too.
 
Lugia in OU is just plain shit >.> You're trying to get a better version of Dragonite into OU? What the hell is your reason, Rayquaza_?

In fact, the only way you can prove Lugia to be not broken, is to show us some logs on how it is NOT broken. >.>

Shaymin doesn't really stick as an offensive Grass IMO, Virizion has Fighting STAB, better SpD and better Speed.
 
Well 1st he stated its been a years, you should be able to counter it.... garchomp was in OU for a year, and obviously its uber because he barely had checks under SS. Blaziken has been there, and you know people only had checks Not counters. seriously bringing anything from uber to ou is retarded.
 
I think the best we can do is to send Lugia to OU and test it, instead of theorymon. It is better to test and to raise Ubers again instead of not to test it.
 
NoUserName said:
I think the best we can do is to send Lugia to OU and test it, instead of theorymon. It is better to test and to raise Ubers again instead of not to test it.
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Or we could not. Lugia is clearly too broken for the tier, and if we're going to test it, we might as well test like Mewtwo in OU.
 
lugia-for-ou-plox discussion had been brought up couple of times before and they were all shut down, always. personally, i don't really care but to be honest, we can be testing a whole other mons and concepts instead of "wasting" it on lugia.
 
NoUserName said:
Suspect tier?
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No... they got rid of that a long time ago.

As for testing Lugia, thats just retarded, there are some pokemon who are clearly broken just from looking at what its OU comparables can do. For example, Politoed is already pretty dominant in OU, why one Earth would we bother testing Kyogre, its basically Politoed, except with 100 times the offense, defense, and a superior movepool, its clearly going to make statistics look like this:

1. Kyogre 100%
2. Gastrodon 60%
3. Ferrothorn 50%

Similarly, Lugia would basically do what Gliscor (fighting check), Skarmory (dragon check), and Latias (special tank) do... except all at the same time. Yeah, I'd rather not have Tyranitar and Scizor usage above 50%.
 
Are we seriously talking about Lugia again....

tumblr_lpzu5iArhE1qhafj6.gif


How about something metagame relevant please, like how does everyone feel about Vaporeon on OU? Is it worth it, what kind of success have people had with it if any? idk
 
When did we go from scouters to Lugia ?_?

On another note, if anyone wants to race the ladder today I'm going to suggest using some form of BP, Dual Screen HO, or Hazard HO.

Good luck!
 
i used specs hydration vaporeon with

252 hp 4 defense 252 spe.atk
modest @specs
ability: hydration
-hydro pump
-ice beam
-hp grass
-rest

to great success.
 
Oglemi said:
Are we seriously talking about Lugia again....



How about something metagame relevant please, like how does everyone feel about Vaporeon on OU? Is it worth it, what kind of success have people had with it if any? idk
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Vappy is ok, hydration rest is kind of annoying and it's offensive sets have a great surprise factor and hit really hard.
 
MetaGross66 said:
It'd be like sticking Dragonite in RU. You just can't think about it. -.-

So, I've been using Shaymin lately. I remember back in DPP where there was a period towards the end when Shaymin was popular (particularly the LO set). Whatever happened to that? It didn't change and still has dat Seed Flare to wreck Rain teams and easily lure out Ferrothorn (you can pretty much set up anything you want at this point >.>). Best part is watching Sandstorm teams flail when trying to beat the hedgehog. lol
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Shaymin only began to approach OU usage once Latias was banned and it didn't break the OU barrier until Salamence was banned.

So now we're back in a metagame with Salamence and Latias, except add Latios, Multiscale Dragonite, and little things like Drizzle weakening HP Fire and the dominant hyper offensive speed shifting toward 108-111, and its arch-nemesis Celebi getting Nasty Plot while Shaymin got absolutely nothing new to play with, so you're left with a pokemon that just doesn't make the cut for Gen V OU.

Kind of a shame since it was the only pokemon in Gen IV to be banned from UU and then make the OU cut-off
 
Well, Celebi has actually had Nasty Plot since HG/SS.

Anyway, I'd like to propose a modified version of that Rain-abusing Life Orb Vaporeon:

Vaporeon (M) @ Life Orb Trait: Hydration
EVs: 42 HP / 252 SAtk / 216 Spd
Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Hydro Pump
- Ice Beam
- Rest
- Toxic


Pretty much the same idea except Hidden Power is foregone for Toxic. The reasoning is that since Vaporeon has Ice Beam for Grass-type and Dragon-types, the only other type that would shrug off hits is Water. Toxic will cripple most, such as Jellicent, Gastrodon, Slowbro etc. and you can then stall them out with Rest. Don't worry about not getting coverage on Rotom-W or whatever, since a weather-boosted Hydro Pump hits it for almost exactly the same amount of damage as an effective Hidden Power. Toxic also gives Vaporeon an option to deal with massive special walls like Blissey or that CM+Roar Latias set should it come down to it. A lot of EVs have been distributed into Speed (enough to outrun Modest Magnezone and other base 60 pkmn), but it could either be made Timid with full investment or it could sacrifice some speed for HP.
 
I wish there's a way to fit Fake Tears on Vaporeon, since that would absolutely break special walls and conserve HPump PPs, but Rest and Hidden Power Grass are essential, and most of the time Vaporeon can rip holes without Fake Tears anyways.
 
Vaporeon devastates quite a bit; funny as how no one uses Water Absorb anymore. Hydration + Rest is so annoying; you bring Vaporeon down to like 3 HP only to have it rest makes you feel like a complete idiot. Rotom-W doesn't even stand a chance against Vaporeon, especially since they all run Volt Switch nowadays.
 
on the topic of hyper offense, which is easier? a full out special or a full out physical?

starmie-gorebyss-lucario-gengar-infernape-thundurus

or

terrakion/lucario/haxorus/conkeldurr/scafty/gyarados

edit: these arent actual teams. just examples of a single spectrumed sweepers.
 
Oglemi said:
Are we seriously talking about Lugia again....

tumblr_lpzu5iArhE1qhafj6.gif


How about something metagame relevant please, like how does everyone feel about Vaporeon on OU? Is it worth it, what kind of success have people had with it if any? idk
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I have not been having too much success with the standard defensive wishing vapor eon (be it on rain teams or not). I did, however, reach 1450-ish rating a while ago with a team that had an offensive vaporeon with hydration (though I did miss switching in on water attacks).
 
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