or sd again, and now youre at +4...and not even jellicent avoids the 2hko from a +4 flare blitz in rain
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np: OU Suspect Testing Round 5 - Sandstorm (Excadrill/Thundurus Banned)
- Thread starter JabbaTheGriffin
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Thanks, this is my point about SR. With it I have some personal preferences to not like this move, but it obviously don't count here. And I liked the nerf suggestion, hehehe.
I have noticed how many the current metagame has Stealth Rock as one of its cornerstones, and how the idea of banning it will be a polemic discussion. Certainly it will be allowed on Smogon metagame for Generations, but I really was wanting to discuss this relation between the presence of SR and the lower variety of viable options that comes in consequence.
And, that's all.
I'm enjoying the many nominations for Excadrill, and definately weather, but I'm pretty sure nothing will be banned just like the last few rounds. People like to hang on to easy strategies. :/
I was pretty interested in seeing Volcarona/Reuniclus on the noms. Sure, they are very powerful, at times quite irritating to deal with. Very excellent pokemon in their own rights. But they are quite counterable IMO.
Dragonite being nommed didnt surprise me, but I'd rather prefer multiscale being banned. I hate Dnite, but he isn't the problem, it's surviving every hit in the metagame not named Mamo ice attack/cloyster ice attack that is the problem with him.
Deoxys S is surprising to people who only see the SR lead version. % of the time, he usually only sets up and dies, and that one is definately easy to work around. But I've encountered the attacking leads before and they are DEVASTATING. Almost always, you can lose a pokemon to that, and then a wrong switch could get you killed if he carries the coverage move to hit you. And it's pretty handy how being faster than everything just takes the game right out of your hands if it's oneshotting you.
Evasion stuff, I believe that all evasion should be gone. Sure, brightpowder and lax incense are bad, but who cares? Would you honestly use those half shitty items anyway? Any miss due to luck is still uncompetative, no matter how bad. (out of your hands ones that is, if you use low Acc moves it's something you can deal with) Mostly, Sand Veil and Snow Cloak should be gone IMO. It blows my mind how they were missed, and they definately can unfairly power pokemon still. (Gliscor substalling, Froslass in UU)
I was pretty interested in seeing Volcarona/Reuniclus on the noms. Sure, they are very powerful, at times quite irritating to deal with. Very excellent pokemon in their own rights. But they are quite counterable IMO.
Dragonite being nommed didnt surprise me, but I'd rather prefer multiscale being banned. I hate Dnite, but he isn't the problem, it's surviving every hit in the metagame not named Mamo ice attack/cloyster ice attack that is the problem with him.
Deoxys S is surprising to people who only see the SR lead version. % of the time, he usually only sets up and dies, and that one is definately easy to work around. But I've encountered the attacking leads before and they are DEVASTATING. Almost always, you can lose a pokemon to that, and then a wrong switch could get you killed if he carries the coverage move to hit you. And it's pretty handy how being faster than everything just takes the game right out of your hands if it's oneshotting you.
Evasion stuff, I believe that all evasion should be gone. Sure, brightpowder and lax incense are bad, but who cares? Would you honestly use those half shitty items anyway? Any miss due to luck is still uncompetative, no matter how bad. (out of your hands ones that is, if you use low Acc moves it's something you can deal with) Mostly, Sand Veil and Snow Cloak should be gone IMO. It blows my mind how they were missed, and they definately can unfairly power pokemon still. (Gliscor substalling, Froslass in UU)
yes attacking deoxys s lead is kinda devastating.
i switch out of my tyranitar to my gliscor thinking it carries super power, only to watch it set up stealth rock. so maybe it carries ice beam i think, only to watch it set up spikes.
the next battle i see deoxys s again, its going to set up stealth rock huh? so i lead with tyranitar to ohko with crunch. it has superpower.
the next battle i see deoxys s. okay. now ill lead with rotom-w since it can take superpower and ice beam.
it has life orb and psycho boost.
the sheer unpredictability and its versatility makes deoxys-s quite threatening.
i switch out of my tyranitar to my gliscor thinking it carries super power, only to watch it set up stealth rock. so maybe it carries ice beam i think, only to watch it set up spikes.
the next battle i see deoxys s again, its going to set up stealth rock huh? so i lead with tyranitar to ohko with crunch. it has superpower.
the next battle i see deoxys s. okay. now ill lead with rotom-w since it can take superpower and ice beam.
it has life orb and psycho boost.
the sheer unpredictability and its versatility makes deoxys-s quite threatening.
Ah, I did forget about Haxorus being one of three pokemon that can reliably kill Dragonite.
Sandstorm? Dnite has leftovers. gg
Very creative :P
Gigalith should function very well in RU IMO. I've used him there and he's a damn good suicide lead. Set up SR, hit someting hard with EQ or Rock slide, then explode. Mental Herb + Sturdy = Impossible to cockblock stealth rock. Check the RU subforum or make a new discussion there for him? (i love him too)
Evasion Clause is universal, so... Garchomp banned of DPPt Ubers ?__?
EDIT-- Lol I'm a bit too late for the party.
Those are all checks, not counters. A counter has to be a pokemon that can take any move from Dragonite and then outspeed / take another hit. None of the pokemon you mentioned can take any move from CB Dragonite
Forgot to add that Deoxys S with Life orb will never kill dnite if it is at full health and wasnt hit on the switch in. Dnite tanks the first ice beam from multiscale, hits hard, and if Deo S isn't dead, KO's with Espeed next turn.
Good luck using Superpower with Multi-Scale... And are we going to discuss "counters" again?
And that every Pokemon can use every one of their sets, all of which are easily counterable in their own way?
Nope. But seriously, don't apply the same logic for Pokemon like Salamence and Jirachi. Look up what a counter is before making up conjectures on the spot (I mean, Superpower Dragonite. Why?).
Despite all the discussion about Thundurus, I can't say I'm appalled at the low amount of nominations for Thundurus, either.
EDIT: right. I'm forgetting things.
Nope. But seriously, don't apply the same logic for Pokemon like Salamence and Jirachi. Look up what a counter is before making up conjectures on the spot (I mean, Superpower Dragonite. Why?).
Despite all the discussion about Thundurus, I can't say I'm appalled at the low amount of nominations for Thundurus, either.
EDIT: right. I'm forgetting things.
thundurus wasnt nominated because it automatically gets nominated, because of round 4 results
I love CB Dragonite leads. They see my Ferro "durr imma fire punch," switch to sublure... fuuuuuuuuuuuuu...
This only works against stupid people I believe.
Im honestly suprised by the amount of excadrill hate all of the sudden,
well thats not entirely true because its been pretty consistant, but it gained a lot of momentum with little talk on this thread.
Im excited for Offical usage stats after these bans
im sure this wont fix the OU metagame for sure, but maybe when speed tiers normalize we will all have some peace and quiet
Doubtful though because the weathers will still be giving people problems and the same unorigional teams are going to be played with a substitute for thunderous and excadrills places, thats if they get banned though.
Honestly im in support of a ferrothorn ban, but once fire punch comes out i think well be okay
well thats not entirely true because its been pretty consistant, but it gained a lot of momentum with little talk on this thread.
Im excited for Offical usage stats after these bans
im sure this wont fix the OU metagame for sure, but maybe when speed tiers normalize we will all have some peace and quiet
Doubtful though because the weathers will still be giving people problems and the same unorigional teams are going to be played with a substitute for thunderous and excadrills places, thats if they get banned though.
Honestly im in support of a ferrothorn ban, but once fire punch comes out i think well be okay
Banning Stream/Stealth Rock would open up Dragons and power dual-types shared with Flying-type (Salamence, Gyarados, etc.). And with less residual damage to help keep everything under check, powerful sweeper sets become more dominent, and we'd be calling for their heads in an instant.
When Garchomp was banned, SS became Excadrill-based more so than in previous rounds, but the combination of TTar + Excadrill, while effective, requires two team slots and sand to be present for Excadrill to be considered a real threat. This game does not (should not) allow you to be able to run away with the opponent's team with just one pokemon/turn.
all of this discussion just makes me want to unban the two other suspects and be done with it. if not, then we seem to be restricting individual pokemon that may/may not be broken in their own rights, but by the laws of the game and how it's played today, "every reaction has a reaction" (yada) MUST be taken into account.
When Garchomp was banned, SS became Excadrill-based more so than in previous rounds, but the combination of TTar + Excadrill, while effective, requires two team slots and sand to be present for Excadrill to be considered a real threat. This game does not (should not) allow you to be able to run away with the opponent's team with just one pokemon/turn.
all of this discussion just makes me want to unban the two other suspects and be done with it. if not, then we seem to be restricting individual pokemon that may/may not be broken in their own rights, but by the laws of the game and how it's played today, "every reaction has a reaction" (yada) MUST be taken into account.
Striving to get rid of auto-weather indiscriminately is too drastic. We know Hail isn't doing anything, so leave it alone. Excadrill is up for a ban this round and is also Sand's main source of muscle. Without Excadrill, Sand Stream is fine. Tyranitar himself is as good as he's ever been without having entire teams devoted to him.
Drizzle and Drought are the real problems. We didn't have them in metagames past, and now that we do, Gen 5 OU is suddenly known as "the weather meta". Rain is just the worst of it all. We had so many Pokemon take the fall for it because we thought that was what we wanted and the end result was complete garbage. Sidestepping bullets only ran us into an entire flurry of them. Now it's our turn to fight back.
I feel a revolution coming on this round. I hope I'm right. Stop bitching and get excited everyone, this is what suspect testing is all about.
Drizzle and Drought are the real problems. We didn't have them in metagames past, and now that we do, Gen 5 OU is suddenly known as "the weather meta". Rain is just the worst of it all. We had so many Pokemon take the fall for it because we thought that was what we wanted and the end result was complete garbage. Sidestepping bullets only ran us into an entire flurry of them. Now it's our turn to fight back.
I feel a revolution coming on this round. I hope I'm right. Stop bitching and get excited everyone, this is what suspect testing is all about.
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