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Gen V Initial RU

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While Cofagrigus is by no means a bad poke in this tier, it certainly has its counters. Yanmega and Porygon-Z, two major threats, don't have much trouble taking it out with Air Slash/ Dark Pulse, respectively. The fact that it has no recovery outside of Rest without Sleep Talk isn't a plus for it either.
 
However it does beat Medicham very easily since Pure Power is the only reason medicham hits so hard in the first place.
 
waterwarrior said:
Psycho Cut does not make physical contact, so Medicham's ability does not become Mummy. And HJK... well, that's a different story.
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Most run Zen Headbutt, though.

Also, Cofagrigus only really counters Medicham once. Once Medicham switches out it gets pure power again and Cofagrigus lacks recovery making it a lot harder for it to beat Medicham repeatedly.
 
I like the thought of Gastrodon paired with Linoone. Silk Scarf +6 Extremespeed KO's 90% of the tier. The other 10% is what team support is for. Gastrodon is there to Block and Yawn to get that crucial one turn of set-up.
 
It's not related but it looked like the best place to post this.

RU just got a little more love with a tag on the RMT forums so if you posted a team there go change the tag. If you don't like red, you can kill me (and Mekkah, he agreed with it) xD
 
Thanks for that zdrup that's great news!

On with metagame discussion, how does everyone feel about Hail teams?

I'd had some success with them, and there are a ton of abusers in the tier atm, particularly Walrein, Cryogonal, Glaceon, and Articuno. I also find it easy to keep Stealth Rock off the field, and Entei is a huge boon to hail teams. Really there aren't many threats to a well constructed Hail team except for heavy offense teams centered on Yanmega and Venomoth or SmashPassers.
 
Hail teams have huge trouble with poliwrath. I'm not talking about the swift swim belly drummer though, what messes up hail is pretty much any other set. It has an ice resistance, a water immunity, and supereffective stab. Pair a bulk up circle throw rest talk set with toxic spikes and something to kill any misdreavus and it's near impossible for a standard hail team to take down. However my personal favorite set is sub focus punch waterfall and encore. It massacres most hail teams. Stallrein in? Encore the sub/protect, set up your own sub, and spam focus punch. You get a free kill. It's incredibly good outside of killing hail too. You score free subs against stuff like Claydol (SR, Rapid Spin), Blastoise (Scald, Rapid Spin), basically any support mon or slow water type.

Another thing that is complete theorymon but seems like it'd work is a rest/talk/curse/dtail lickilicky. With cloud nine it blocks hail and it has the SpD to tank some blizzards. Phazing to rack up sr damage combined with curse boosted dtails wears down the opposing team.
 
Medicham paired with a Pursuit user has become quite common. Maybe it's the rise of hail teams lately? I don't know but any fast, powerful Fighting type puts Hail teams under a lot of pressure. Gallade (special bulk), Primeape (U-turn), Medicham (Trick) and even Sawk.
 
Don't forget hitmonlee! Reckless hjk and rapid spin are the main reasons to use it (though mach punch is cool too), but it hits like a nuke while outspeeding medicham so it's not fully outclassed as an attacker.

Bulk up Gallade is really cool too.

From my experiences with lc, I wonder if a ZHB/HJK/Ice Punch/Recover Medicham could work. Drain Punch could work too. It may not work the same because Meditite was all about eviolite abuse but it certainly forces switches so it'd get a chance to recover, though you'd probably be better off attacking. Just ideas.
 
Yeah Hitmonlee is another great fighter! Foresight + Rapid Spin and HJK is very cool. Has good special bulk too.

Recover would help Medicham against Hail stall. I found that Drain Punch is important for situations when you absolutely need to use a Fighting attack but can't risk HJK. HJK/Drain Punch/ZHB/Recover could work since Gligar isn't very threatening and you're never winning against Tangela anyway. Don't know if Medicham has the bulk to be successful with it but it does have a lot of support options.
 
I never really understood why Rapid Spin is used on Hitmonlee, he really appreciates four attacking moves, and the Pokemon switching into Hitmonlee are Ghosts. It's not like you're using Torkoal or Blastoise and your opponent is more willing to switch in other non-ghost Pokemon unless they are forced to switch the Ghost into a predicted rapid spin.
 
Well why is Hitmontop used? Because it actually has access to Rapid Spin. OK Top is leagues ahead in terms of usefulness since Hitmonlee doesn't have the same bulk or ability but it has enough of a movepool and it isn't dead weight with a great Attack stat and great STAB. Which is more than a lot of Rapid Spinners can boast.
 
You gave me a reason to use Hitmonlee, not to use Rapid Spin on Hitmonlee. What I'm suggesting is that wasting two moveslots just to effectively Rapid Spin is, well, a waste. This is especially true because Hitmonlee does not have the bulk to mispredict with Foresight and get hit hard by any neutral hit. If you mispredict the Ghost with Hitmontop, sometimes you don't even need to switch out.
 
If a team needs Rapid Spin then you gotta have it somewhere, Hitmonlee was fortunate (or unfortunate) enough to have that in its movepool so it's a burden it will always have to carry (lol unburden). It's not about picking Rapid Spin for Hitmonlee (why would any Pokemon pick Rapid Spin for its 4 moves), it's picking Lee for Rapid Spin. The pool of users is just too small so it will always get mentioned, and used, as a spinner. If Pokemon had feelings I'm sure they all would rather be sweepers than the spinner or waterboy.


Btw, without using Rapid Spin on him, do you think Hitmonlee is a good enough Pokemon on its own? Until Unburden is released, Hitmonlee is not very convincing when compared to the other fighters imo because its only niche is a Reckless HJK and Sucker Punch. I guess it has decent speed but I don't see much in it.
 
No other fighting-type can break down bulky Psychics like Hitmonlee. Bam it switches in, takes a bunch of damage, then you go out to your Pursuiter and it dies no question.

If you're desperate, you can even sac Hitmonlee to take one down. Let's take the bulkiest one, Cresselia. Cresselia can switch in and take a chunk from your HJK (25-30%) and Stealth Rock (12.5%) then Double-Edge (30-35%). Cresselia needs to switch in with more than ~75% to safely survive Hitmonlee's onslaught. If Cresselia every KOes Hitmonlee (or Hitmonlee KOes itself) Cresselia will be left in very easy KO range of Pursuit users.

Another reason Hitmonlee is so great is that it carries almost perfect coverage within priority moves. Mach Punch and Sucker Punch hit basically everything. I'd really reconsider using Rapid Spin on Hitmonlee with so many better options for Spinners - even offensive ones.
 
Nails said:
From my experiences with lc, I wonder if a ZHB/HJK/Ice Punch/Recover Medicham could work. Drain Punch could work too.
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This is the set I run and once the opposing teams Lampent is removed (worn down by ZHB, Golurk, Krow etc) it becomes fairly easy to clean with Drain Punch.

The two battles Ive played against hail played almost identically. 1. Wear down and kill Snover. 2. Wear down and kill Lampent. Ferroseed has been sacced at some point to take Blizzspam and set rocks. 3. Play around using Gastro and Cryo until I can get Krow in which then takes down a third pokemon. 4. Clean with Medicham/wallbreak with Golurk. The only trouble I've had with hail teams so far has been a Sub Rotom-F, but Medicham proved its awesomeness by tanking a Blizzard and one round of hail, recovering off damage with drain punch and clearing the remaining two pokes.
 
Texas Cloverleaf said:
This is the set I run and once the opposing teams Lampent is removed (worn down by ZHB, Golurk, Krow etc) it becomes fairly easy to clean with Drain Punch.

The two battles Ive played against hail played almost identically. 1. Wear down and kill Snover. 2. Wear down and kill Lampent. Ferroseed has been sacced at some point to take Blizzspam and set rocks. 3. Play around using Gastro and Cryo until I can get Krow in which then takes down a third pokemon. 4. Clean with Medicham/wallbreak with Golurk. The only trouble I've had with hail teams so far has been a Sub Rotom-F, but Medicham proved its awesomeness by tanking a Blizzard and one round of hail, recovering off damage with drain punch and clearing the remaining two pokes.
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With Stealth Rock down, Blizzard does 96% minimum to Medicham.....it's very unlikely that that would happen. Not to mention it can't survive another one after if it has a Substitute up.
 
Fortunately SR wasn't down because Cryo can stop most members of a hail team on its own and spin the rocks. And that's correct but Scarf Medicham doesnt really switch in :P My opp had 3 pokes left at that point so I think I just sacced golurk to get Medi in for free and he had nothing to take a Drain Punch at that point.

tl:dr version, Cryo is awesome ;)
 
now that the server has been updated, we can now use sableye and alakazam in ru for a little while. I think that if sableye isn't uu by the first suspect test it will probably be a suspect.
 
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