Gliscor (Classic)

GtM

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name: Classic
move 1: Earthquake
move 2: Toxic / U-Turn
move 3: Roost
move 4: Taunt / Stealth Rock
item: Leftovers
ability: Sand Veil
nature: Impish
evs: 252 HP / 184 Def / 72 Spe

Why this set deserves to be on-site

  • Whilst Toxic Orb + Poison Heal has advantages, it only provides an extra 6.25% recovery per turn and immunity to status in comparison to Leftovers. Since it also restricts Gliscor's movepool quite a bit, I think it's worth posting a standard set without Poison Heal.
  • Gliscor is a great pivot on many teams against powerful fighting types like Conkeldurr and Terrakion, whilst also checking other powerful physical attackers nicely. As such, it can force switches often, and can capitalise on this by setting up Stealth Rock to support a team or using Roost to instantly heal off a lot of prior damage.
  • The ability to Roost allows Gliscor to deal successfully with opponents by wearing them down, either with Life Orb recoil or reducing the PP of viable attacking options. It provides Gliscor with the same amount of HP it would regenerate over 8 turns with Poison Heal (net vs Leftovers) and prevents it from being worn down by powerful neutral attacks.
  • Be aware that as Gliscor roosts against slower opponents, it loses it's Fighting resistance. Whilst it makes this Gliscor slightly worse at dealing fully with Conkeldurr, you can normally force it out anyways, and using Taunt to prevent Conkeldurr from boosting makes it much less of an issue. Meanwhile, Gliscor also reduces its Ice weakness when Roosting, which can be helpful.
  • Overall, the ability to Roost and instantly heal off a lot of damage makes Gliscor more useful against Dragons likes Dragonite and Haxorus, where he can tank an unboosted hit and heal up, but makes him worse against slow opponents who can capitalize on Gliscor's vulnerability to Fighting and Ground attacks after it Roosts.

Additional Comments
  • Taunt is used primarily to stop any status users who might want to capitalise on Gliscor's lack of Poison Heal and hit it with Poison or a Burn. Gliscor outspeeds the vast majority of them and can thus make status less of an issue than it may first appear, combined with Gliscor's immunity to Thunder Wave. It also stops Skarmory, Ferrothorn and Forretress from setting up alongside you. On the other hand, Stealth Rock can be used if you lack other places to slot it on your team, and Gliscor makes a fairly good user thanks to his bulk and decent speed.
  • Toxic allows Gliscor to pester opponents that take little damage from its Earthquake, and helps Gliscor fulfill a role as a stallbreaker. U-Turn can also be useful for maintaining Gliscor's role as a bulky pivot, and can also break Air Balloons and Focus Sashes if need be.
  • Sand Veil is also useful in reducing the accuracy of an opponent's moves to 80%, which is especially useful against opponents like Conkeldurr that can only hit you hard with Stone Edge (now 64% acc) most of the time. Given that Sandstorm is a dominant force in the metagame, this ability sees more use than might first be apparent, especially if you provide your own support. It also allows Gliscor to heal up more reliably, occasionally getting a Roost for free if the opponent's attack misses.
  • Ice Fang can be handy for beating opposing Gliscor and Landorus, but doesn't have a lot of use outside of that.

Teammates and Counters

  • Fast sweepers such as Infernape and Mienshao like Gliscor's ability to deal more successfully with physical threats such as Conkeldurr and Terrakion, and also appreciate the extra residual damage that Stealth Rock provides.
  • Toxic Spikes support from Tentacruel or Forretress allows Gliscor to stall out certain opponents more successfully using Roost and Taunt.
  • Any special attacker with super-effective moves can threaten Gliscor and its sub-par Special Defense. Scald in particular is a nuisance since it either kills or Burns Gliscor.
  • This set largely has the same counters as any other set, but has the advantage in that it can simply set up Stealth Rock as a counter switches in, before you switch to your own response.
 
Probably nice to see this on-site, though I'd like Stealth Rock slashed. Roost is the big draw of this set, and Stealth Rock is easy to fit on through other members of the team. Plus, mono-ground with Taunt is an excuse to get shit on by Thundurus, while at least you can force it to attack you or capitalize on it trying to set up on you with Stone Edge or something.

EDIT: EVs definitely should be looked at because that is indeed the very definition of Speed Creep. I usually don't object to it, but when it's trying to creep against itself, that just turns into something silly.
 
Done. I've slashed in Ice Fang instead of Stone Edge since it's consistent with the other analyses.

Speaking of which, shouldn't Stone Edge be mentioned in the OO on Gliscor's page, for hitting Thundurus / Volcarona if they switch in or try to set up? I'm surprised it's not mentioned at all when it was almost the default over Ice Fang in 4th Gen.
 
While I do like this set, Roost carries a few unwelcome side effects that should be mentioned. The EVs are speed oriented, which is mostly fine, but speed creep is a bad idea on Roost Gliscor.

While Roosting, Gliscor loses it's Fighting, Bug, and Ground resistances, and Gains a Rock resistance and Grass weakness. There will be situations where Roosting will hurt more that it will help, mainly Scizor, Conkeldurr and Ferrothorn.

Also, Poison Heal will restore an equivalent amount to Roost in four turns, not eight.

I'm going to test this, but I'm not sure why I'd use this over Poison Heal Gliscor without Stealth Rock.
 
As I stated beforehand, Gliscor still has Leftovers. Thus Poison Heal only gives Gliscor an extra 6.25% per turn compared with not running Poison Heal. I'm not sure if that's the best way of comparing things, however...

Also, I'd like to note that access to Stealth Rock was the main reason I put this forward. I've made a few teams where I wished I had Stealth Rock support but had nowhere to put it, and I eventually decided to just put it on my Gliscor and see how it went. Thought I might as well make use of Roost whilst we're stuck with Sand Veil, then. :P
 
i still don't understand what this set accomplishes other than setting up stealth rock. excadrill beats you because air balloon is the standard item. conkledurr also beats you because you can't boost your attack, and it can drain punch as you roost. maybe SR / roost / ice fang / earthquake? then you for sure lose to conkledurr, although unless your opponent is dumb as fuck you lose to it anyways.........

basically i still just find that poison heal is superior in almost every situation because you don't need to 'waste' a move on recovery. that means you can run ice fang AND toxic/SD to beat conkledurr, and obviously excadrill dies too since you can break its balloon. i think this set is other options at best, but other people can approve it if they think it's worth it, i don't really mind

yeah just changing this to a full out rejection

QC Rejected 2/3
 
I don't understand why people still aim for the 244 Speed benchmark when Jolly Tyranitar is virtually inexistent in the current meta. This set especially shouldn't, as in order to beat Excadrill as reliably as Poison Heal Gliscor does, you're going to need all the bulk you can get.
 
kokoloko said:
I don't understand why people still aim for the 244 Speed benchmark when Jolly Tyranitar is virtually inexistent in the current meta. This set especially shouldn't, as in order to beat Excadrill as reliably as Poison Heal Gliscor does, you're going to need all the bulk you can get.
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Agreed, the speed EVs should probably be lowered to 44 to beat SpD Jirachi and other univested base 100s. This is a general rule that I think should be applied to all of Gliscor's sets, however, so I'm not going to change it unless the entire analysis is altered to fit this, to avoid inconsistency.

Also, I do see what everyone means about Roost being inopportune on a pokemon that's faster than everything it checks (other than Excadrill) If it's deemed that Roost isn't viable in this metagame then I'm happy for this set to be rejected. The inability to deal with as many opponents at once due to the crowded moveset is a turn-off.
 
Iconic said:
i still don't understand what this set accomplishes other than setting up stealth rock. excadrill beats you because air balloon is the standard item. conkledurr also beats you because you can't boost your attack, and it can drain punch as you roost. maybe SR / roost / ice fang / earthquake? then you for sure lose to conkledurr, although unless your opponent is dumb as fuck you lose to it anyways.........

basically i still just find that poison heal is superior in almost every situation because you don't need to 'waste' a move on recovery. that means you can run ice fang AND toxic/SD to beat conkledurr, and obviously excadrill dies too since you can break its balloon. i think this set is other options at best, but other people can approve it if they think it's worth it, i don't really mind
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I agree with this (we kinda have the same point Iconic) Gliscor's moveset is already crowded, and Roost/Stealth Rock hinders it's ability to check/counter the important stuff.

If this were to work, I'd make the set EQ / Taunt / Roost / Ice Fang. Taunt is too important to give up, and Gliscor has more important things to do than set up rocks. Deslash it, and U-turn, entirely and move them to AC. I tried U-turn, and found myself wishing I had Ice Fang every time.
 
I can't see why Roost would be unviable. Yes, Poison Heal is really, really good, but seeing as people use sets with Protect to get extra recovery on Poison Heal, I can't see why Roost is a waste of a moveslot. On one set, you are getting 12.5% recovery in that turn, on the other, you are getting 56.25% recovery. Yes, Poison Heal has status immunity, but since you have Taunt, you can fuck with Toxic users anyway. I reckon a rule of thumb would be if any defensive Pokemon gets access to a instant recovery move, it should use it. Stealth Rock should probably be the last option, and EQ / Taunt / Ice Fang / Roost should probably be the primary options, with SR slashed just in case you have no SR user.
 
Nah I'll have to disagree with Shrang here and say that SR should definitely be the first slash. Face it, Poison Heal just completely outclasses Sand Veil, even if it can't use Roost. Having an immunity to status means it can switch into SDef Jirachi and Blissey all day long, it has a free moveslot, and double lefties helps A LOT when you're dealing with Exca's Rock Slide flinches and switching into things like CB Stone Edge.

IMO, it should look like this:

name: Classic
move 1: Roost
move 2: Stealth Rock / Taunt
move 3: Earthquake
move 4: Ice Fang
item: Leftovers
ability: Sand Veil
nature: Impish
evs: 252 HP / 184 Def / 72 Spe

Ice Fang is a necessity for Exca's balloon as well as things like DD Mence and Dragonite.
 
I'll post in the subjective changes thread for Gliscor's speed to be lowered to 237, and if that's successful then I'll also change the EVs.

Also, without Taunt, Gliscor loses the ability to lock out Skarmory, Forretress, Ferrothorn and other defensive pokemon, and I think that's pretty important since so many teams run at least one of them.
 
Heh, Gliscor can't really wall Ferrothorn without Poison Heal since it has to eat a super effective Power Whip if it roosts.

But yea, I think being a makeshift check to DD Mence and Excadrill is more important than not being setup fodder for Skarm and Forry. Some of Gliscor's commonly used Poison Heal sets are already setup fodder for them, namely Sub-Protect and SD-Protect (the latter is set up bait for Skarm, but not Forry).

Regardless, SR should be the first slash since Poison Heal is too good to give up otherwise.
 
Super Mario Bro said:
Heh, Gliscor can't really wall Ferrothorn without Poison Heal since it has to eat a super effective Power Whip if it roosts.

But yea, I think being a makeshift check to DD Mence and Excadrill is more important than not being setup fodder for Skarm and Forry. Some of Gliscor's commonly used Poison Heal sets are already setup fodder for them, namely Sub-Protect and SD-Protect (the latter is set up bait for Skarm, but not Forry).

Regardless, SR should be the first slash since Poison Heal is too good to give up otherwise.
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I still disagree. The big draw of this set is Roost, and Stealth Rock seems like a waste of a move when you can fit it in elsewhere and Gliscor wants to be carrying too many other moves. I'd rather see it as second slash, because Mono-EQ Gliscor is way too easy to set up on.
 
Seven Deadly Sins said:
I'd rather see it as second slash, because Mono-EQ Gliscor is way too easy to set up on.
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I agree with you there. That's why I said that SR should be slashed with Taunt instead of Ice Fang. The decision of whether or not SR should be the first slash with Taunt is up to QC, but Ice Fang should be left alone.
 
How useful is roost's removing Gliscors flying type (beyond giving Conkeldurr an opening to drain punch you to hell and back). Also worth considering, without poison heal you can run sand veil, which makes Exadrills best option of hurting you (rock slide, which does not have 100% accuracy) an even worse option.
 
For the standard Poison heal Gliscor, people often run protect because it gives a free 12.5% recovery. On non-poison heal Gliscor this is not necessary. So, my point is everywhere the standard set runs protect, roost can go over it and that gives you same amount of moveslot to use.

If you need to counter Conkeldurr more effectively, you can run Sword Dance, EQ, Ice Fang, and Roost. If you want a defensive Gliscor you can run Roost, EQ, Toxic, Ice Fang/SR. Both of the sets are similar to the once on site except Roost over Protect. Yes you lose to status, but roost and sand veil should be enough to compensate for that
 
Okay, has this set been discussed? Is it worthy of a full set or should Roost + Sand Veil just be mentioned in the OO? I think it's worth discussing the merits and downfalls of Roost over Poison Heal so I'm inclined towards the former.

Also, should the set be renamed to "Roost" or "Sand Veil" or left as it is? I'm undecided.
 
Honestly, the problem with this set is that he's now essentially a excadrill and terakion counter. He's not as good at beating conk, and he can't stallbreak or toxic stall like other scors can. He can't even beat breloom as hard as he could before. Yeah, it's viable, but poison heal's extra moveslot gives him the ability to use 4-moveslot sets that need all the moveslots to be viable.
 
With Excadrill gone, there's two things that are worth noting about this set. First, Ice Fang is no longer necessary to break any Balloons (Gliscor isn't a good match against other Balloon users like Heatran). Second, with one of Gliscor's main reason's for popularity being gone and considering that Roost isn't very good against Conkeldurr, this set probably has less justification as a straight up physical wall over the conventional set. These two factors make me think that Stealth Rock or another option should be in Ice Fang's place now, to justify using a classic set over the standard. Thoughts?
 
Well wasn't Ice Fang primarily for Landorus / Gliscor / Dragonite moreso than for breaking Air Balloons? Facade would be more reliable if the sole purpose is to break balloons.

SR can replace Ice Fang. Another option is U-turn. Taunt + U-turn is a good way to set-up for your other mons.
 
This isn't a Poison Heal set, so Facade doesn't really get any points here.

That said, I'd like to see Toxic and U-turn slashed on in place of Ice Fang. With Excadrill banned, EQ-Toxic isn't terrible coverage any more, since Bronzong is shitting on this set regardless.
 
I have seen a SubSD Sand Veil Gliscor (probably max atk) with acrobatics+earthquake+flight gem
It 2HKOes skarmory with 2 Swords Dance, which is not as good as it can seem, but at least this gliscor is not set up fodder for skarm.

I dont see the real point of this set, because it lacks recovery, apart from surprising the opponent, but just nitpicking about the viabillity of sand veil.
 
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