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np: OU Suspect Testing Round 5 - Sandstorm (Excadrill/Thundurus Banned)
- Thread starter JabbaTheGriffin
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It doesn't seem like it's the last one, from Jabba's post and some earlier discussion about the suspect system it seems like from now on it won't be up to the community to vote on suspects, so maybe a return of the Smogon council?
A return of the Smogon Council? I am liking the sounds of this. It is too easy for a person that doesn't understand the metagame to get voting rights with copy paste team.
I really hope it isn't the return of Smogon Council :/ Or if it is something a kin to Smogon Council, it better not be 9 members voting on the remaining suspects, who are mostly controversial. Smogon Council is even more prone to individual bias and bandwagoning imo. I'd want to see 45+ members to be making a decision for the community, and we definitely have enough competent players to fill that many seats.
Weather should be serperated definitely, because drizzle is much bigger threat than sun or even hail is.
The option to create a weatherless ou metagame might sound apealing to some people, but i don't think that this all-in-one-weather-suspect will get even a simple majority. With a serpaerate voting we will see how broken every weather is, and will probably lead to a balanced "weather-tier".
The option to create a weatherless ou metagame might sound apealing to some people, but i don't think that this all-in-one-weather-suspect will get even a simple majority. With a serpaerate voting we will see how broken every weather is, and will probably lead to a balanced "weather-tier".
Maybe because if you ban sun and rain without banning sand, you will see Landorus and terrakion in nearly every team as they kind of abuse of sand, especially if you don't have rain or sun to counter them anymore ?
imagine a metagame with one or two less auto weathers, it will be the era of the remaining weather. for instance, take sun for example. it's arguably the least effective weather (disregarding hail for apparent reasons). however, if ss and drizzle were to be banned, everyone will be using the sun and everyone else will be trying to counter the sun. for me, an auto weather is a good counter measurement against other auto weathers. as much as i believe the weathers should stay, i would rather have all auto weathers gone rather than to have one or two less auto weathers for a more centralized meta.
Separate the weather abilities. Let's be honest here, it's pretty clear the majority of people only have an issue with Rain and/or Sun in the game, whereas they would be perfectly happy if Sand, Hail (and probably Sun) stay so long as Excadrill is banned (not that I agree with an Excadrill ban). This is all based on observation in this thread as well as the nomination thread.
I personally don't want to see any weather banned from this metagame, but if there is a vote on them, then each weather should be voted on individually, not together.
I personally don't want to see any weather banned from this metagame, but if there is a vote on them, then each weather should be voted on individually, not together.
I don't know about you but I don't considered Terrakion a sand abuser, and both are stop by none weather sweepers. Mach Punch, Aqua Jet, Bullet punch all take care of Terrakion easy. Any Scarfer can take them as well, unless they run a scarf themselves which greatly limits them. They are threats but they are not game breaking one bit.
- "Rome wasn't built in a day."
Yes I do predict that if we were only to ban one auto-weather i.e Drizzle, another auto-weather would soon rise in usage and possibly dominate the Metagame. However, I personally feel that Sandstorm is much less of a threat without the presence of Excadrill and let's face it, I doubt hail will be rising from the ashes of disparity to dominate the OU Metagame any time soon. I think that without Drizzle, Drought will become the leading auto-weather competitor and will possibly become OP, but whilst it's nice to talk about all of this in theory, we do need actual proof.
Yes it will take more time, but this way each weather can be viewed separately and therefore we can obtain a fair judgement on whether or not a particular weather is broken.
Lastly, I feel that if we were to group all of the auto-weathers together, it would surely effect the outcome of the voting as I think that the majority of those who oppose weather, at this moment in time, feel that Drizzle, and Drizzle alone is broken.
Therefore in my opinion, all the auto-weathers should be listed separately in order to obtain the most accurate and reliable results. If indeed in time another weather is proven to be broken, it will eventually get banned too - so let's not worry about the 'what ifs' and 'buts' and actually focus on the improving the current Metagame.
Yes I do predict that if we were only to ban one auto-weather i.e Drizzle, another auto-weather would soon rise in usage and possibly dominate the Metagame. However, I personally feel that Sandstorm is much less of a threat without the presence of Excadrill and let's face it, I doubt hail will be rising from the ashes of disparity to dominate the OU Metagame any time soon. I think that without Drizzle, Drought will become the leading auto-weather competitor and will possibly become OP, but whilst it's nice to talk about all of this in theory, we do need actual proof.
Yes it will take more time, but this way each weather can be viewed separately and therefore we can obtain a fair judgement on whether or not a particular weather is broken.
Lastly, I feel that if we were to group all of the auto-weathers together, it would surely effect the outcome of the voting as I think that the majority of those who oppose weather, at this moment in time, feel that Drizzle, and Drizzle alone is broken.
Therefore in my opinion, all the auto-weathers should be listed separately in order to obtain the most accurate and reliable results. If indeed in time another weather is proven to be broken, it will eventually get banned too - so let's not worry about the 'what ifs' and 'buts' and actually focus on the improving the current Metagame.
This is not the fact. If you ban rain and sun and excadrill, sand will still have some big benefits in comparison with a clear sky. I'm not talking wether they will be hardly broken or not ( they will be, but not too much) but the fact that the big majority of players will play sand "abuser" as Landorus and in a lower consideration, Terrakion.
If we want a new metagame, all the weather has to be banned. It doesn't have sense to ban rain and sun but not sand lol. I prefere to keep them all then rather then to see that 70% of the teams are sand.
And don't mess counters to centralised pokemon please. It is obvious that any players will have taken these priority moves in consideration in there build to let a good sweep to lando/terra
Separate them. I don't see the need to group them at all.
That is your opinion, I much rather see a meta that is balanced with no complex bans then the current one. Even if sand is everywhere. And if it is everywhere it won't be because of Landorus and Terrakion, it will because of T-tar and its just pure usefulness. My point being, lets not ban something that isn't broken so there is no reason to ban sand. Excadrill is the only broken pokemon in the sand, so once it is gone, sand is fine. (I will not go into detail on Excadrill because people have said everything I have to say about him numerous times)
Edit: Not going to continue this here anymore as no one else is in on this, if you want to keep debating I am more then willing to through pms, just so we don't bug anyone here.
Weather is weather. As some people have said in the past, it may inherently be better than other strategies. I personally don't have a problem with this, and think all weather should stay. However, since they are nominated, I say that they should be nominated as a whole, as banning one would just make the other more prominent, and the metagame less balanced.
Personally, I hope the voters are smart here and don't make any stupid bans. Thundurus is incredibly powerful, and if it goes, I won't really care, but anything else would just be a stupid ban at this point. The metagame is fine. Don't mess with it.
Personally, I hope the voters are smart here and don't make any stupid bans. Thundurus is incredibly powerful, and if it goes, I won't really care, but anything else would just be a stupid ban at this point. The metagame is fine. Don't mess with it.
I will consider Terrakion as a sand abuser if the others weather are banned. Because of this fucking *1.,5 in def spe which mean, Psychic,Hydropump or whaterver will not be an OHKO on a monster with 108 spe and 129 Atk.
Mach punch take care of Terrakion??? Even with a def fell if your Pokémon is not Conkeldur, it is not an OHKO. Aqua jet? It is the same if your Pokémon is not Azumarill and concerning BP there is only Scizor.
Don't forget the fact that if Excadrill is ban then people will use an other item than balloon, it could be LO or a berry. There will be no more Thundurus to use T-Wave now to stop him.
Concerning Nite, yes, if you want to ban him, just vote for Multiscale and not Dragonite, but I think it is too early for him like Volcarona.
This has gone too much, as MANY people have said. Let's talk about something other than weather, since if u read everything in this thread is there really isn't hard evidence that weather is broken. So I am done argueing as WE (people against banning weather) have already proven it is not broken. So I am done, and s lot of us (even ppl who want yo ban weather) agree. So unless something else is broken, smogon should close this thread and make a choice (and it was supposed to 9/25 I believe snd it's like 9/27)
I would argue that volcarona is better in the sun than without it
lol, again the fact is not wether it is broken or not but that weathers is centralizing all the metegame on itself and is randing 1/2 of the OU nearly useless lol.
I don't want to keep playing gliscor for sand ( still 2HKO by exca frustration) , gastrodon for rain and heatran for sun (you can also say dugtrio if you play yourself a auto-weather) for the rest of my life only because some selfish guys founds it "fun" to play lol
There will always be a popular team. The popular choice will ALWAYS "overcentralize" the metagame. See like page 179 or 180 for my post on "the cycle" and new worlds diversity. Honestly, we don't care if u don't want to see gliscor, ect. We ban things b/c there broken. Since there is always a popular choice it is no reason to ban it, b/c then that will overcentralize the game. So come up with something better b/c this argument is bs.
Volcarona is a very good pokemon, but i wouldn't consider it Uber. It has viable counter, that aren't niche pokemon like gastrodon, and there are still Stealth Rocks. If drizzle gets banned, Volcarona will be stronger, but lets see how this will work out.
Dragonite is even a little bit stronger, but multiscale is easily breakable.
It is the the competive challenge about this game to handle such threats, and if you can't, you need to build better teams and improve your playstyle. The suspect voting is not there to make the metagame easier.
Dragonite is even a little bit stronger, but multiscale is easily breakable.
It is the the competive challenge about this game to handle such threats, and if you can't, you need to build better teams and improve your playstyle. The suspect voting is not there to make the metagame easier.
So, don't be selfish and go back to gen 4 ^^
edit: sorry 4 double post
the metagame is fine as it is, I'm sure a lot of u would agree. So, u don't have 2 as it's ur opion and u feel we need 2. It's fine as it is b/c there isn't anything that is to hard to handle (broken)
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