np: OU Suspect Testing Round 5 - Sandstorm (Excadrill/Thundurus Banned)

[Kefka Palazzo™]

Rotom-W can be handled by Celebi, Shaymin, Roserade, drought teams, lanturn (also stops thundurus if you need him to do something else or even mail blissey on a stall team(as blissey generally sucks).

There are some other options but I won't bother mentioning them. When you try to bring up the one good thing a crap poke can do, people attack you as if you're saying that the pokemon is amazing or something. Like what happened on the server yesterday with camerupt as a volc counter.

This. That Camerupt hate was uncalled for D:

Anyway, have any of you been using Gyarados? Despite having trouble with Ferro, Rotom-W, and Skarmory, it's absolutely amazing.
I've been using the BulkyDD set and it destroys everything, especially Rain teams that can't take the boosted Waterfalls.

 

[WinstonShnozwick]

Anyway, have any of you been using Gyarados? Despite having trouble with Ferro, Rotom-W, and Skarmory, it's absolutely amazing.
I've been using the BulkyDD set and it destroys everything, especially Rain teams that can't take the boosted Waterfalls.

I love Gyarados, once I discovered his bulkydd set, I just grew to it. I made some very special changes to my bulky gyara in particular, he's one of a kind. Does very well for the team. Even if he isn't killing things he makes a great ground/fire/fighting switch in and team player with intimidate. My set has no troubles with ferrothorn and skarmory at all (it lures and kills them), but Rotom W will always be irritating. Washing machine from hell resists gyara's STABS, I suppose I could try stone edge, but bounce is godly to me.

 

[alphatron]

DD natural gift baits in and ohkos rotom-W!

If on a rain team, it won't be able to take more than one boosted waterfall after switching in a first time. Stone edge doesn't really cut it. Been playing Fire Emblem 6 lately so I should be nicer to pokemon's rng but still.

Anyone been using harvest exeguttor?

 

[WinstonShnozwick]

What berry for Natural gift? I don't think it is a great option, because you don't have an item vs teams with rotom, and it only works once, and seems pretty narrow to counter rotom w.

Harvest Exeggutor? Pretty old stuff. I tried him in OU 2 testing rounds ago when I hated stall and blissey. He shafts blissey/chansey/jellicent/stall so awesomely its not even funny. However, he's not for OU, try UU or RU. I released my personal set for him a while ago here;
http://www.smogon.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3695698&postcount=1642

 

[xero_k]

Seriously, the only problem with BP is espeon. Why even suggest a complex ban, if he is banned together with bp noone is going to use him anyway.

Ignorance is bliss? You repeat words we've all heard many times without any supporting facts or points. Also, that's a very personal thing. More specifically, you and anyone who only uses Espeon for that function on BP won't use it. People like me? Sure will. "No one" is a bad choice of words, I'd rather I, nor anyone else here have your personal opinion (unsupported by even the simplest of facts that'd be relevant) be projected onto everyone else.
What's the point of intelligent posts which detail counters to BP chains AND Espeon's ability when people basically ignore them for the sake of their inability to adapt? What's your counter argument to the laughingly large availability of Haze, which is unaffected by Espeon's ability?

Rotom-W can be handled by Celebi, Shaymin, Roserade, drought teams, lanturn (also stops thundurus if you need him to do something else or even mail blissey on a stall team(as blissey generally sucks).

There are some other options but I won't bother mentioning them. When you try to bring up the one good thing a crap poke can do, people attack you as if you're saying that the pokemon is amazing or something. Like what happened on the server yesterday with camerupt as a volc counter.

Or Relicanth as a check to many Dragonite sets, Volca, and sometimes Ttar. Originality: Underrated.

 

[Kefka Palazzo™]

Or Relicanth as a check to many Dragonite sets, Volca, and sometimes Ttar. Originality: Underrated.

Heh, never actually thought of Relicanth. What set do you use? I might consider him for my team.

Speaking of underrated pokemon, I was using Golurk earlier and even though I was told he was pretty good...I've had no success with him yet.
Slow as shit, so-so defenses, and always seems to fail to OHKO important threats.
Y U FAIL ME GHOST-ROBO?!

 

[xero_k]

Heh, never actually thought of Relicanth. What set do you use? I might consider him for my team.

Speaking of underrated pokemon, I was using Golurk earlier and even though I was told he was pretty good...I've had no success with him yet.
Slow as shit, so-so defenses, and always seems to fail to OHKO important threats.
Y U FAIL ME GHOST-ROBO?!

For Dragonite specifically, you want Adamant 252/ 252 and a Choice Band. Dragonite / Multiscale is OHKO'd by Head Smash unless it has bulk invested. The best that Dragonite can do is EQ, which only has a 13% chance to OHKO with Choice Band or a DD boost. That's with no investment in bulk on Reli's part.
The moves for that are Head Smash, Waterfall, EQ, and a filler move, Double-edge is okay as another way to exploit Rock Head, I guess.

If you want a little more flexibility, Reli's defense gives him a fairly easy time getting a Rock Polish off, just replace the filler move in the previous set. As for items, a life orb could work, or a lum berry. It's a fairly open slot. Likewise with speed, the previous set can be used with a scarf instead, but it misses the OHKO on MS Dragonite; in return, it can challenge other threats like Tran and Ttar a bit easier.

Always use Rock Head and Head Smash, that's the main advantage Relicanth has. As a side note, if you can successfully use a swords-passing Ninjask or Scizor (if those exist), Relicanth really enjoys the extra power. Don't over estimate its Head Smash; the move wrecks things like flying dragons and fires, but if it's going neutral, physical bulk will hold off Relicanths lack-luster attack stat... You may do a nice chunk, but possibly not enough, and Relicanth's defenses don't worth well against special attacks that are un-resisted, or you know, grass moves.

Edit: The Choice Band is to get through Multiscale; if it's at anything less than full health, it'd take MAJOR defensive bulk to survive an unboosted Head Smash; with the CB it's basically a OHKO if it hits Dnite, and without the CB, it just misses out on the Multiscale OHKO. Regrettably this also means the SubDD set is the one that's going to screw it over. The fairly rare special variant is a pain too, since Reli isn't reli prepared for special hits...

 

[Prankster]

Relicanth is cool and all but it doesnt really check volc all that well. it is near OHKOes by a +1 Bug Buzz, and if your fighting volc, you always assume that he is at +1 since he will prey on your weak attacks and set up (Ex. Latioses draco meteor after the -2 drop.)
HeadSmash miss also cost me a few games.
Actually, an underated poke that Ive been trying is Corsola. It gets regenerator from dream world and it can set up rocks, toxic, and even hurt some pokes with scald. My most important move, Mirror coatsash, will kill many special sweepers. Plus, it gets healed back to full after a couple of regenerator switches and still cause mayhem.

 

[xero_k]

Relicanth is cool and all but it doesnt really check volc all that well. it is near OHKOes by a +1 Bug Buzz, and if your fighting volc, you always assume that he is at +1 since he will prey on your weak attacks and set up (Ex. Latioses draco meteor after the -2 drop.)
HeadSmash miss also cost me a few games.
Actually, an underated poke that Ive been trying is Corsola. It gets regenerator from dream world and it can set up rocks, toxic, and even hurt some pokes with scald. My most important move, Mirror coatsash, will kill many special sweepers. Plus, it gets healed back to full after a couple of regenerator switches and still cause mayhem.

I concede to the miss thing, that REALLY sucks -.-. As for Volca, if it doesn't OHKO and the aforementioned miss doesn't come up, it goes down. Relicanth benefits from double-switches since it can beat a lot of things straight on. But yes, assuming Volca is +1 is generally the way to go. Reli dislikes special attacks anyway.

 

[Kefka Palazzo™]

Mirror coatsash

Stealth Rock, Spikes, Toxic Spikes.

 

[NoUserName]

Stealth Rock, Spikes, Toxic Spikes.

You can use Espeon to reflect them back, eeeer What am I saying?
Nobody uses Espeon outside BP chains! /irony off

 

[badabing]

Dragonite (F) @ Leftovers
Trait: Multiscale
EVs: 252 HP / 80 Def / 16 SDef / 160 Spd
Careful Nature (+SDef, -SAtk)
- Dragon Claw
- Substitute
- Roost
- Dragon Dance

Fact: Average kills a game: 4 - So many pure 6-0's with this guy just gives him such a high kill ratio -

With the addition of Multiscale, Dragonite is one of the best pokemon in BW OU right now. What many didn't consider at the time of me creating this set a couple months ago was abusing Multiscale with Substitute and Roost. Originally this was jolly nature with 16 speed and the rest in Special Defense but it was proven that Careful nature and 160 speed is more beneficial. With the ability to stall ice beams and hp ices and get the initial set up, I have gotten more pure sweeps with this pokemon then any other pokemon in my entire pokemon career. I see myself all the time simply sacrificing my entire team so I can just set this guy up vs stall teams and sweep. If you have faced this team and haven't lost to this guy, I would be very suprised. This is the reason I play pokemon, theres just sets that can stun you and make you want to use them over and over and this is one of them.

this probably ought to be stickied. gg

 

[NoUserName]

Looking at the posts I see that Baton Pass is disliked to a significant degree. If in the future it becomes suspect again, I can see it being put through some form of complex ban, even if complex bans are discouraged. Moving on to another suspect, whats your opinion on Deoxys-S. It seems that a substantial amount of players think its broken. Personally, I don't think its broken as of now. Somehow I always end up checking it due to having a strong hitter that can either OHKO or 2HKO it. I have to admit it is very unpredictable, your safest switch-in is probably a Psychic/Steel. Its unpredictability is probably the only characteristic I see that pushes it in the Ubers direction. Speed is another arguable one I guess. Would be glad to hear your thoughts on any other characteristics that push it in that direction.

I thought it is not broken by any means until I saw sets with Psycho Boost, even I think that thing is far from being broken.

Also the alien only can do well an objective at the same time.

Not all is Speed when it cannot break defenses to almost every wall and cannot switch safely to 99% sweepers.

Ok, lets change gears a bit. Lets discuss the #2 pokemon in the metagame, Rotom-W. The thing is annoying as fuck I tell you. Jesus I have tried everything against it, Gastrodon, Ferrothorn, Latias, Chansey, Celebi, all of them have there problems, and none of them like a burn or a tricked choice item.

I think I am playing against the thing totally wrong, because it personally screws me over about half the time I see it. So just asking, how do you all deal with it? Any specific combination, fancy battle plans, lures, whatever, I need some other way of dealing with the dam washing machine. At this point, I am willing to listen to anything, at one point I even considered a choice Celebi on my team just to deal with it.

(BTW, I am not insinuating Rotom-W is broken, I am enough of a man to realize its me who is at fault here.)

Also Virizion and most Grass with decent Sp Def, except x4 ones, Dragons too bar physical ones. I had troubles
with it, is useful, but ugly as hell, this is one of few pokemon which I hate aestethically.

A curiosity of this pokemon is it cannot learn Surf, but if you throw a washing machine to an amount of water
it'll float xD

Heh, never actually thought of Relicanth. What set do you use? I might consider him for my team.

Speaking of underrated pokemon, I was using Golurk earlier and even though I was told he was pretty good...I've had no success with him yet.
Slow as shit, so-so defenses, and always seems to fail to OHKO important threats.
Y U FAIL ME GHOST-ROBO?!

I think it will be better when it will get No Guard for Rock Polish sets or the others(Iron Fist does not boost too the weak Shadow Punch, bar Focus Punch)
One of its troubles is the lack of decent physical Ghost STAB.

I haven't tested it enough however, but maybe it is not a OU material, try it in UU.
SubPunching I think it is the better set now, but CB sounds interesting.




By the Way, Have any of you tested Escavalier?

 

[Chieliee]

Escavalier is meh. It's a good switchin to Lati@s, but that's about it.

IMO it's a must for TR teams though.

 

[NoUserName]

CB Megahorn destroys everything, and Knock Off is useful, but it is soooooooo slow, even, it cannot outspeed some paralyzed things.

And the typical, It cannot do nothing to Steels! besides Rock Smash which sucks.

 

[Razza]

this probably ought to be stickied. gg

I dont quite understand how that dragonite set works, i remember facing a similar version before and it just subbed and roosted against my scizors bullet punch till it ran out of pp (or they switche dout i cant quite remeber)

 

[Taylor]

I paired CBHaxorus with SubNite and it worked well with the first dragon luring in Steel-types and hitting them hard. SpecsLatios is also a solid partner if you find physical Dragon-type moves are not the way to go.

 

[xero_k]

I made a troll team and tested out Murkrow some; It does stop stat boosts with Haze, which can buy time for Perish Song (they will start boosting again if they can, PS wrecks that). Sableye can really screw things up too; taunt screws utility mons (every Prankster Poke does that though...) WoW screws attackers, and I've used Trick with Iron Ball to nice effect. The issue, of course ends up being: Okay, I've maimed and crippled these pokes, now I need to hit them. I'll take this moment to suggest to anyone who uses these: if you're going to paralyze, burn, and taunt a team, make sure you have a good pokemon to really exploit it. HaxRachi if you want to be an evil s.o.b. KoH (Kiss of Hax) is another viable one... if you insist on being an evil s.o.b.

My non-ladder troll team asside, Sableye and Murkrow have a decent success rate in their roles, and they're immune to Stored Power. I admit, if Volbeat gets added to BP teams, TG will make Espeon's SP very annoying. Still, there's ways around it, and Murkrow is still a very big middle finger to it, no matter how many boosts it has.

 

[Prankster]

Regenerator, leech seed/wish support, and i mostly use it as a lead anyway for those pesky rotom washes

 

[X5Dragon]

I've seen someone with a +5 Nite and he barely did 50% damage to a Jirachi under rain. Now I don't know what exactly what kind of EV investment that Jirachi had, but I can assume that having Dragon Claw alone (also why not Outrage?) is not going to work.

 

[RotatingAtom]

I made a troll team and tested out Murkrow some; It does stop stat boosts with Haze, which can buy time for Perish Song (they will start boosting again if they can, PS wrecks that). Sableye can really screw things up too; taunt screws utility mons (every Prankster Poke does that though...) WoW screws attackers, and I've used Trick with Iron Ball to nice effect. The issue, of course ends up being: Okay, I've maimed and crippled these pokes, now I need to hit them. I'll take this moment to suggest to anyone who uses these: if you're going to paralyze, burn, and taunt a team, make sure you have a good pokemon to really exploit it. HaxRachi if you want to be an evil s.o.b. KoH (Kiss of Hax) is another viable one... if you insist on being an evil s.o.b.

My non-ladder troll team asside, Sableye and Murkrow have a decent success rate in their roles, and they're immune to Stored Power. I admit, if Volbeat gets added to BP teams, TG will make Espeon's SP very annoying. Still, there's ways around it, and Murkrow is still a very big middle finger to it, no matter how many boosts it has.

Hah, I just thought that I can't be the only one who realizes how good
Murkrow is;
Seriously, Thunder Wave, Perish Song, Haze, Roost... You can even use
FeatherDance for a pseudo-Will-o-Wisp, which as a bonus has priority as
well AND can hit Fire types, although physial Fire types are rare in OU.

Murkrow is a full stop to any BP team I've seen so far, and it's pretty much
the only one if you encounter a BP team built by someone who knows what
he's doing. Shoutout to shofu at this point btw.

 

[pele]

this probably ought to be stickied. gg

1: Who posted that?
2: It seems a lot like parashuffle Dnite, but without the chance to get free turns. It seems like it would go like
I attack
Dnite DDs
Dnite roosts
I attack
Dnite Roosts
I attack
continued untill one of us runs out of PP
3:This is also stopped hard by skarm, who without fire punch can WW you out. Also fails to do much against any steel type. You have to keep attacking to get a KO, but if you take the time to heal and get rid of MS, they can break it again.

 

[Kefka Palazzo™]

Regenerator, leech seed/wish support, and i mostly use it as a lead anyway for those pesky rotom washes

Hazards don't care if you heal up. As soon as you switch in, the sash will become useless.

 

[tehy]

To the rotom-w poster, roserade is a great rotom-w counter. It can wall it, set up hazards on it, regenerate off damage, put something to sleep, and hit pretty hard off of base 125 special attack, which is nearly latios's. Also, it outspeeds rotom-w naturally.

 

[tehy]

1: Who posted that?
2: It seems a lot like parashuffle Dnite, but without the chance to get free turns. It seems like it would go like
I attack
Dnite DDs
Dnite roosts
I attack
Dnite Roosts
I attack
continued untill one of us runs out of PP
3:This is also stopped hard by skarm, who without fire punch can WW you out. Also fails to do much against any steel type. You have to keep attacking to get a KO, but if you take the time to heal and get rid of MS, they can break it again.

Incredibly true, but the point is that it's supposed to be a last-pokemon sweep if skarm's the only counter. Personally, a big problem with that is that an excadrill rapes the shit out of it, so after it's become the last pokemon i'll just go to my exca and spam rock slide until i win.