Marijuana Legality/Morality Discussion Thread

[v]

Hi. In a few threads that I posted in lately, there have been minor debates about drugs, and in my mind one in particular: Marijuana. I feel as though I've spent some time on either side in my lifetime, so I can provide some semblance of a balanced context for this discussion.

This argument exists in two dimensions: Morality and legality of marijuana use.

From a moral perspective, it's easy to see why a lot of people think marijuana is morally reprehensible. It's pretty inarguable that when you're high, your judgment is worse, your motivation is wrecked, and afterwards you feel like a tired mess. It makes you not function as well as you do sober. There is the notion of marijuana as a "gateway drug," or a substance which causes the user to slowly get into hard drugs such as cocaine or heroin. I personally think it's horse shit, but it's a common concern.

Many people will point to quotes in a variety of religious texts, but unless you're a Rastafarian or Scientologist, I'm guessing the only rules against weed in particular is the "no drugs" rules, as a quick google search has not yielded anything specific.

As for why potsmokers think smoking weed is okay, it's because it's fun and harmless. It doesn't really fuck you up too badly. You can still do most anything high, so long as you can find the motivation within you. It's not that we think smoking weed is "the right thing" necessarily, but that we don't see any problem with on.

On the legislative side, anti-weed people often think of marijuana as a drug in the vein of cocaine and heroin, something addictive that takes over the user's life. The gateway drug idea also comes into play here. Many who believe marijuana should be illegal fear it as a gateway drug more than anything.

Pro-weed guys think "I wanna get high, and the government shouldn't tell me I can't."

Obviously, there's a lot I haven't established or mentioned, but I was just hoping to get the discussion off on the right foot to avoid a lot of the Bitter Bud Battling that so often erupts between stoners and straightedges.

Also, Reefer Madness.

 

[Ditto]

You would post this :P

 

[VKCA]

There is the notion of marijuana as a "gateway drug," or a substance which causes the user to slowly get into hard drugs such as cocaine or heroin. I personally think it's horse shit, but it's a common concern.

the worst
especially those god damn "90% of [x drug] users started with marijuana" good grief fuck off

I'll post more when I'm not high

 

[Curtains]

I really dont care about people smoking weed. I dont smoke weed (to some peoples disbelief) and really wouldnt care if my close bros started too. The only thing that pisses me off is when pro-weed advocates make up bullshit to try to justify why it should be legal. Weed should not be legal, here is why. When you have drug dealers in the hood and in the burbs that make a living of selling weed they their primary source of income is now in jeopardy because of a national surplus of weed. Now people will have to try to find other ways to make money which in this economy is tough. Crime will shoot through the roof. Additionally I don't like the notion of 1/3 the nation being high at one time. This could be a nightmare for businesses. No shirts, no shoes , high , no service. Also the use of other drugs will rise becuase what are teens gonna want to sneak next? Its only human nature.

 

[Nilf]

Smoke weed regularly, and don't want it to become legalised. As soon as it becomes legal, 25% tax on top of what it is now, dealers no longer deliver to my door, bunch of wankers start smoking and thinking they're hardcore. It's already really easy to get hold of, so putting it in my local corner shop does me no favours.

Police don't really care here, you can pretty much smell if coming off a few houses on every street anyway (do live in a student area though).

 

[NatGeo]

If marijuana had legality on par with what's in place with alcohol I personally think more people would be happy with that than not. It's pretty much the same in terms of legal issues, and honestly it's not that bad for your health to warrant the blanket ban it has right now in the US. I would be a little bit worried for the increase in abusers as opposed to casual users, but that's probably a minor thing (again, similar to how drinking works). Yes I do know people who smoke weed but other than that they're pretty good people. (I haven't smoked weed but I'mm slightly liberal sooo)

edit: forgot about all the tax revenue america could make to troll dealers troloololololol

 

[Killah]

I really dont care about people drinking alcohol. I dont drink (to some peoples disbelief) and really wouldnt care if my close bros started too. The only thing that pisses me off is when pro-alcohol advocates make up bullshit to try to justify why it should be legal. Alcohol should not be legal, here is why. When you have moonshiners in the hood and in the burbs that make a living of selling beer they their primary source of income is now in jeopardy because of a national surplus of alcohol. Now people will have to try to find other ways to make money which in this Great Depression is tough. Crime will shoot through the roof. Additionally I don't like the notion of 1/3 the nation being drunk at one time. This could be a nightmare for businesses. No shirts, no shoes , drunk , no service. Also the use of drugs will rise becuase what are teens gonna want to sneak next? Its only human nature.

sorry I just had a flashback to the '30s

 

[Nastyjungle]

pro legalization and also think that the whole gateway drug thing is kinda bs
getting high isnt really even an issue because its fun and basically harmless like vader said

but people who say it isn't addictive (for some) are full of shit
just like there are people who can control their drinking there are people who can control their stoning
but there are people i know who are absolutely dependent on it

 

[Firestorm]

The number one reason marijuana is illegal in the United States and Canada is due to Big Tobacco lobbyists. It's in the tobacco industry's best interest to keep marijuana illegal for obvious reasons and they're ready to do anything in their power to keep it that way. Morality really has little to do with this. It's relatively harmless compared to both tobacco and alcohol which are both legal and widely available to adults.

And yes, the industry would be huge. In British Columbia, marijuana is estimated to be the third largest industry in the province (no official stats as it's still technically illegal).

 

[mattj]

wow I didn't realize this post was so big

Obviously, anyone who knows me knows I'm a fairly conservative Christian. I have never drank, smoked, or done drugs. So that's the angle I'm looking at this from.

There are no places whatsoever where the Bible specifically says "Thou shalt not smoke Weed/Marijuana/THC." This is for obvious reasons. Why would the Bible specifically name every substance that God doesn't want you to abuse. The Bible isn't a text book, or an organized list of "thou shalt nots". For the most part, whether you accept it as authoritative or not, it's a record of history.

However, there are several places where the Bible condemns being inebriated for recreational purposes. The substance being used is alcohol (the most common and accessable drug of the day), but (arguably) these scriptures can be applied to anything that significantly lessens your mental capabilities, for recreational purposes. Most of them are pretty self explanatory:

And be not drunk with wine, wherein is excess; but be filled with the Spirit;

For the drunkard and the glutton shall come to poverty: and drowsiness shall clothe [a man] with rags.
...
Who hath woe? who hath sorrow? who hath contentions? who hath babbling? who hath wounds without cause? who hath redness of eyes?
They that tarry long at the wine; they that go to seek mixed wine.
Look not thou upon the wine when it is red, when it giveth his colour in the cup, [when] it moveth itself aright.
At the last it biteth like a serpent, and stingeth like an adder.
Thine eyes shall behold strange women, and thine heart shall utter perverse things.
Yea, thou shalt be as he that lieth down in the midst of the sea, or as he that lieth upon the top of a mast.
They have stricken me, [shalt thou say, and] I was not sick; they have beaten me, [and] I felt [it] not: when shall I awake? I will seek it yet again.

Woe unto them that rise up early in the morning, [that] they may follow strong drink; that continue until night, [till] wine inflame them!

I could quote more, but I think you get the gist. Don't get inebriated. It's bad. Yadda yadda.

That being said, the Bible is also pretty clear that each of us gets to make our own choices and that we are all responsible for our own actions.

I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, [that] I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live:

As much as I'd love every person everywhere to follow the dictates of the Bible, it's not my place to force or even coerce anyone to do anything. We are each the captains of our own destinies. For that reason, I don't really care whether or not you, or anyone else smokes weed. I won't, because I'm convinced that the Bible condemns recreational inebriation, but I'm not your judge or your boss. Do what you will. Have fun.

However, even though I believe that smoking weed to get high is immoral, and that we can all do whatever we want, I oppose the legalization of marijuana for recreational purposes because of the impact that I fear it will have on drug related deaths throughout the United states.

There are plenty of sources that argue that marijuana, along with other drugs, account for thousands of deaths every single year.
http://drugabuse.gov/infofacts/driving
http://www.webmd.com/mental-health/news/20051201/marijuana-raises-risk-of-fatal-car-crash
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/4498419.stm
https://www.ncjrs.gov/ondcppubs/publications/pdf/marijuana_myths_facts.pdf

Yeah, yeah, you can chalk those sources up to "Reefer Madness Redux" all you want, but the fact is, people do die because of marijuana use. Debate the numbers, or reasons, or whatever you want, but its an undeniable fact.

My only problem whatsoever with legalizing marijuana for recreational use is the fear that, because of the already terrible system we have for handling the drugs that are already legal, if we introduce a new legal drug, we're only going to see accidents and deaths rise.

I'm completely convinced that the Bible condemns recreational innebriation, and therefore recreational cannabis use. I'm also for people being able to do whatever it is that they want to do. But I'm not at all convinced that our government is in any position to handle a new legal, recreational drug. If we could come up with a system that would get the number of alcohol related deaths and accidents down, I'd be more than happy to vote in favor of personal, recreational marijuana use.

That's just my opinion.

 

[verbatim]

Personally, I haven't tried it, and therefore cannot comment on its effects. I can however, support its legalization for the sole purpose of dealing a blow against the drug cartels in Mexico. They have way more power than I'm comfortable with and if they ever get into a trading deal with terrorist groups (in exchange for Afghan opium perhaps?) things could get out of hand. The mexicans are very skilled at crossing the border without getting stuff inspected.

Thats a worst case scenario but either way, the Mexican cartel is killing farmers down there and that hurts my conciseness.

Edit: I was wrong, theoretically the worst case scenario is the terrorists getting a nuclear weapon in through the border. As it turns out, all the machines necessary to fabricate an H-bomb can be bought on the open market and the designs aren't as closely guided as you might think. The only real barrier is getting the uranium/plutonium.

Back on topic, anyone who'd overdose on drugs probably wouldn't care about legality, so I doubt drug-related deaths would rise that much if we legalized marijuana.

 

[popemobile]

whatever the bible says has absolutely no bearing on whether or not pot should be legal

 

[verbatim]

That's true, separation of Church and state and what not.

 

[Ride The Lightning]

Marijuana should be legal (and taxed, imo). If abusive drugs were legal, you wouldn't be taking them if you didn't before the legalization, because if you wanted to, you would already be doing them.

 

[verbatim]

Also, could someone good with numbers come up with an estimation of how much money the U.S. government would take in if marijuana was legalized with heavy taxes. It'd be interesting to see how much it helps the deficit, though my hopes aren't high.

 

[Alan]

Jesus Christ: Attorney at Law

I don't really care either way if it's legal or not. I only smoke casually so it's not like it would be life changing if it became legal and realistically I wouldn't probably pick it up if it did become legal. It would probably solve some problems and create other problems. Lesbionest, it's not like legalizing weed is going to make the world hunky dory (although it would probably make Wall St. a lot less crowded [ZING]). It's not going to cause the downfall of society either. People are probably smart enough to realize the importance of self control, and it would probably be treated a lot like alcohol. You're going to have people who can control their usage and people who smoke like 25 j's a day. Yeah, it probably is true that lots of people who end up homeless giving blowjobs for crack probably used weed, but I'm sure they drank before that so there goes that argument, as far as I'm concerned. I'm pretty libertarian about social stuff though so if you're not hurting anyone I don't really see a problem with it. I feel like I had more to say, but I don't.

 

[mattj]

Back on topic, anyone who'd overdose on drugs probably wouldn't care about legality, so I doubt drug-related deaths would rise that much if we legalized marijuana.

No one overdoses on pot. I'm talking about people smoking a joint, getting in a car, and running over schoolchildren. If you make it legal, you make it more accessable (example, alcohol). If you make it more accessable, you make it more widely used. If you make it more widely used without properly regulating it, you'll end up with more deaths via accidents.

whatever the bible says has absolutely no bearing on whether or not pot should be legal

yes?

@Alan, I could just be overreacting, but for me "People are probably smart enough to realize the importance of self control, and it would probably be treated a lot like alcohol." is the problem. I don't think our government is doing a good enough job of regulating the recreational drug that is already legal. Way too many people die from alcohol related accidents. Personally, I'm just afraid that legalizing marijuana would lead to more use and more deaths and accidents.

 

[iDunno]

The only reason why Marijuana is a "gateway drug" is because dealers who sell it try to sell other drugs to people as well who buy their pot. In essence, the reason why Marijuana is so dangerous is because it's illegal. If people bought it from legal vendors who had no affiliation with any other drug, it would become less of a gateway drug and less people would use it because it would be legal and therefore less appealing to use in the first place.

 

[Firestorm]

mattj, the majority of your post is not your opinion but is merely an interpretation of a religious text. That does not belong in this discussion. I do not think anyone is advocating that marijuana should be available to a 10 year old who walks into the corner store by their elementary school. However, adults should be able to purchase it as they already do tobacco and alcohol - both of which are more harmful to themselves and others.

As far as the dangers of driving or doing other dangerous activity while inebriated goes, education for awareness of that should be funded rather than anti-drug ads for pot which are just laughable now. Telling people not to smoke pot isn't going to do much good. Especially with the type of communication the US government and anti-drug groups are using now.

This is a good ad:

People who smoke weed are often under the impression it's safe to drive because there's less material out there about it. People who wouldn't drive drunk still drive stoned. It's true that it's safer, but it's not safe and communication needs to be made about that. Instead, time is spent on ads like this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0NZGPVBCrjY

What's the answer when half that kid's friends smoke pot and don't end up like that?

Reasoning behind the pilot ad can be found here: http://www.cpha.ca/en/activities/potanddriving/faq.aspx

 

[mattj]

mattj, the majority of your post is not your opinion but is merely an interpretation of a religious text. That does not belong in this discussion.

Many people will point to quotes in a variety of religious texts, but unless you're a Rastafarian or Scientologist, I'm guessing the only rules against weed in particular is the "no drugs" rules, as a quick google search has not yielded anything specific.

:x
I could have just misinterpreted what he was talking about here, but I thought he was talking about the religious aspect of the discussion. That's why I pointed to the Bible verses. He said he had searched and hadn't found anything on the subject. I wasn't like trying to be like "HEY GAISE! THE BIBLE SAYS THIS AND THIS SO YOU'D BETTER DO IT LOOL!"

 

[iDunno]

I found this on the related videos section of reefer madness

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LcPF59CoGvs&feature=grec_index

 

[tomtom5858]

I've never tried weed, and to continue to not smoke weed through my life. Frankly, you get high off of both tobacco and marijuana. Why one should be illegal while the other is not I beyond me.

 

[Ditto]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0zFbc5MzAxk

From Reefer Madness and helps mattj's point.

 

[doomvendingmachine]

Just before some idiot comes in and claims the opposite; you can be no more addicted to marijuana than you can be addicted to food or video games. Yeah, you can become addicted to any of those things, but it isn't a physical addiction with withdrawal symptoms; you simply go back to it because you enjoy it so much.

I've never done weed or any drug besides alcohol by the way, but I certainly don't judge anybody who does and would not be opposed to trying it at some point in my life.

 

[Sæglópur]

I'm definitely for weed legalization. There is no moral aspect to it. It should be okay just like drinking is okay. I do believe anything done excessively is/could be harmful to ones health, but why make something illegal that is going to be obtained anyway?
Same with hard drugs. I've never tried them but it just seems pointless to outlaw them when the people that seek them are going to get it anyway. (And also why the fuck should I care if someone is doing heroin, it's their life).
I also think people should be educated on drugs instead of lied to. There are so many people I've talked to who think smoking weed is just as bad as doing meth.
Also...why is salvia legal in most states and weed isn't? :s