np: OU Suspect Testing Round 5 - Sandstorm (Excadrill/Thundurus Banned)

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Well now that what was essentially the central focus of the metagame: Excadrill is gone things will probably change for the better and sand teams will look like something other than Tyranitar, Excadrill, Rotom-w/Gliscor, Filler, Filler, Filler

Thundurus *shrug* There are still other options for a rain/offensive team sweeper.

If only I could have weatherless Manaphy/Garchomp in OU...
 
YTP said:
but thundurus was my favorite pokemon. wynaut sucked xD. the only reason it got banned is because big brother wobbufett got bannd :( it never even got a chance

thundurus isn't uber omg. people checked it a lot and i never got swept by it. i ran cb abomasnow and life orb mamoswine and i never had problems.

in short, thundurus is innocent. the real culprit is polifrog. it always made thundurus too strong for the n00bs.
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noobs dont get voting rights
(or theoretically they shouldnt)
so noobs wouldnt have a say
 
Thunderpunch is absolutely necessary to 2HKO Jellicent. Like I said, I am looking for a Rapid Spinner that ACTUALLY spins - not a Rapid Spinner that can only spin if there's no spinblocker.

Yea, Hi Jump Kick or Close Combat are definite options over Drain Punch if I really don't need the healing and need more destruction.

Excadrill is by far the bigger suspect than Thundurus. If the Rapid Spin Excadrill was the only set for the mole, then it has plenty of checks and not ban-worthy. However, the all-out attacker with either Return or X-Scissor drastically restricts the number of mons that can handle it. The all-out Excadrill pretty much forced people to tailor a poke slot specifically for Excadrill.

Thundurus is really manageable. People cite about its Prankster abilities, but it's sacrificing crucial coverage for Taunt / Thunder Wave / Substitute. The most dangerous set (NP + 3 attacks) is easily checked by having a solid electric resist or immunity / special sponge with a revenge killer. Just play around with resistances to check mate it.

EDIT: GigaPUNCH!

Thundurus *shrug* There are still other options for a rain/offensive team sweeper.
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Exactly, shouldn't have been banned :p

If only I could have weatherless Manaphy/Garchomp in OU...
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second this, but is not worth the hassle of the ensuing disputes between pro- and anti- combo bans.
 
Predicting everyones favorite metal bug will rise back to #1. Without Thund and Exa around his cb set checks most sweepers (Alakazam, Terrakoin, Latios, Venusaur, Landorous, Reuniclus, etc). Him and Rotom will be major pains this round. Not that they already wernt.
 
Pocket said:
Thunderpunch is absolutely necessary to 2HKO Jellicent. Like I said, I am looking for a Rapid Spinner that ACTUALLY spins - not a Rapid Spinner that can only spin if there's no spinblocker.

Yea, Hi Jump Kick or Close Combat are definite options over Drain Punch if I really don't need the healing and need more destruction.

Excadrill is by far the bigger suspect than Thundurus. If the Rapid Spin Excadrill was the only set for the mole, then it has plenty of checks and not ban-worthy. However, the all-out attacker with either Return or X-Scissor drastically restricts the number of mons that can handle it. The all-out Excadrill pretty much forced people to tailor a poke slot specifically for Excadrill.

Thundurus is really manageable. People cite about its Prankster abilities, but it's sacrificing crucial coverage for Taunt / Thunder Wave / Substitute. The most dangerous set (NP + 3 attacks) is easily checked by having a solid electric resist or immunity / special sponge with a revenge killer. Just play around with resistances to check mate it.

EDIT: GigaPUNCH!


Exactly, shouldn't have been banned :p


second this, but is not worth the hassle of the ensuing disputes between pro- and anti- combo bans.
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Try Foresight+Rapid Spin Hitmontop or Blastoise.


Giga Punch said:
Well now that what was essentially the central focus of the metagame: Excadrill is gone things will probably change for the better and sand teams will look like something other than Tyranitar, Excadrill, Rotom-w/Gliscor, Filler, Filler, Filler

Thundurus *shrug* There are still other options for a rain/offensive team sweeper.

If only I could have weatherless Manaphy/Garchomp in OU...
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I don't think with weatherless, Garchomp and Manaphy come back OU, Garchomp has PERFECT coverage and Manaphy +3 Tail Glow.
 
NoUserName said:
Try Foresight+Rapid Spin Hitmontop or Blastoise.




I don't think with weatherless, Garchomp and Manaphy come back OU, Garchomp has PERFECT coverage and Manaphy +3 Tail Glow.
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Aldaron just made an unofficial Clear Skies tier with Garchomp, Manaphy, Excadrill, and Thundurus unbanned. We should be able to learn a lot about how they'll all fare in weatherless situations from it.
 
Thorhammer said:
Aldaron just made an unofficial Clear Skies tier with Garchomp, Manaphy, Excadrill, and Thundurus unbanned. We should be able to learn a lot about how they'll all fare in weatherless situations from it.
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No, because this is a weather metagame, not a non-weather. Weather is an important factor to take into account.
 
tbh, I'm glad Excadrill is gone. Thundurus getting banned wasn't surprising, but I really didn't think it was broken. Drizzle just gave everyone the illusion it was. I've always found np thundurus to be easier to deal with before everyone started using it with Drizzle+Thunder to 2KO stuff that it only 3KOs with Thunderbolt. What's the argument for those that want to keep Drizzle?
 
I'd remove Thundurus over Drizzle any day. Removing Drizzle is analagous to banning Baton Pass because a select few BPers "broke" the strategy.
 
Well stall is going to be a lot more stronger now. The best rapid spinner in the game is gone and in this metagame, it's really easy to set up hazards. Even with strong offensive mons, stuff like Sand Stall or Rain Stall seems to be dominate.
 
that talk has been going on for a while but most want to keep weather and rather ban the abusers of broken nature to reach the balanced weather metagame. it's been like this for as long as i can remember. also, with garchomp and manaphy in a weather less meta, just try out clear skies.
 
lordkira said:
that talk has been going on for a while but most want to keep weather and rather ban the abusers of broken nature to reach the balanced weather metagame. it's been like this for as long as i can remember. also, with garchomp and manaphy in a weather less meta, just try out clear skies.
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That was their point. There is an Unofficial Clear Skies meta. You can get an idea about the "brokeness" of the other Ubers from their. There was no need for that guy to argue with what Thorhammer said, or for you to agree with what he said.
 
Boondocker said:
Predicting everyones favorite metal bug will rise back to #1. Without Thund and Exa around his cb set checks most sweepers (Alakazam, Terrakoin, Latios, Venusaur, Landorous, Reuniclus, etc). Him and Rotom will be major pains this round. Not that they already wernt.
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I doubt Scizor will rise very much. Fire-types like Nape, Chandy, Tran and also Steels like Meta and Rachi will probably rise without Excadrill to come in and OHKO them. Gyarados and Zapdos will probably rise without Thundurus to OHKO/"overshadow" them respectively.

lordkira said:
this isn't clear skies
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qft
 
I'm entirely opposed to any possibility of actually banning auto-weather abilities from OU, the proposition being completely ridiculous as I argued when it was being discussed here recently, but I'm in favor of learning whatever we can. While what we learn from the Clear Skies tier may not perfectly fit what you want to find out, it'll be a lot closer to what you want to know than anything else.
 
Well i dont have the time to make a full RMT because school, work, and family issues.

But I made an Offensive Anti-weather team that countered most (if not all) offensive weather teams, even a few stall ones. It was also able to hold its own in non weather teams.
It consisted of Kingdra/Chandelure/Gliscor/Conkeldurr/Skarmory/Jellicent

Kindra outsped everyone on rain teams (Bar random scarfers)
Chandelure decimates any sun team
The rest countered sand teams

Wrapped in Hide tags for curious people.
Kingdra@Lum Berry
Lonely-252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Swift Swim
Outrage / Waterfall / Dragon Dance / Hidden Power {fire}

Chandelure@Air Balloon
Modest-4 Hp / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Flash Fire
Fire Blast / Substitute / Shadow Ball / Hidden Power {Ground}

Gliscor@Flying Gem
Adamant-252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Sand Veil
Acrobat / Earthquake / Swords Dance / Substitute

Conkeldurr@Choice Band
Brave-252 Hp / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Guts
Mach Punch / Superpower / Stone Edge / Payback

Standard Jellicent
Standard Skarmory

Now i didnt post all of this for feedback or a rate, but to show another form of Anti-Weather other than Stall.
 
Thorhammer said:
When "decent attacking capabilities" is on your list of reasons for why a ban is okay, that's a good sign that there's something wrong with that ban.
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I'm sorry, that terminology was personally misplaced. That was more descriptive of of the mon, more specifically, my personal use of it. I apologize for that and will edit accordingly.
As for how I see it... ehhh that's kind of why I said the part AFTER that. I didn't get high on the ladders where it may've been used more strongly. I rarely even abused rain with it.

Point is my opinions on these bans aren't that significant because I'm a bit unorthodox and not high on laddering, so I never saw them in as devastating of a light...

Edited.
Anyway, I can see where Exca limits options significantly. People gave fairly solid examples and arguments.
As for Thundurus? Okay, Prankster + Speed + Power.... issue is, most of the ones I saw occasionally used Twave, occasionally used Taunt, but otherwise I saw NP sets... is that what got it banned? I generally saw it as a waste of a powerful ability so I rarely used that. Lets see... He Did make Gastrodon more common -shrugs-I dunno, I see where he's a threat, but I don't see how proper prediction can't handle him. On the other hand: Twave, NP, Thunder/ thunderbolt, HP ice. Cripple possible non-immune attackers, maybe set up. I usually saw people skip the extra utility in favor of offensive coverage though. Focus miss? we call it that for a reason...
Oh yeah, right, in rain he's 'too good' -_____-
 
NoUserName said:
True, I didn't pay attention to "Excadrill is rather irreplaceable, especially as a Rapid Spinner."
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+2 Adamant Life Orb Earthquake Drillbur vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Bold Jellicent: 77.97% - 92.08%
+2 Adamant Rock Slide vs Gengar: 101.53% - 119.54%

Allllright!

You can also use Sandslash, who can abuse Sand Veil <3
 
i am slighty surprised Exca and thundu got banned, but not much. in the end of day i figured both were a bit too good for OU, but still dind't considered a Ban. shit happens i guess, and i hope people find decent enough replacements for their teams. i would probably bitch about thundurus ban since he was on my last team, but oh well....

i know this is really old news, but when you dont visit the site for months you kinda update yourself way after everyone else....


@intentional i c wut u did there kiddo.
 
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