np: OU Suspect Testing Round 5 - Sandstorm (Excadrill/Thundurus Banned)

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tehy said:
Kefka, if someone knows you have a chandelure, they're not getting rid of their chandelure counter, so how are you getting rid of any of those?\

And jelly rapes volcarona, people are just stupid and use scald over night shade for no adequately explored reason. Seriously, logically i'd hit anything i'd hit with scald with either night shade,will-o-wisp, or taunt.
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Nightshade Jelli has the same problems as Siesmic Toss Blissey though. Morning Sun Volcorona will laugh at you, while chest rest has more issues but will still come out on top after muscling you down. Or if you have my luck, you'll face someone who's volcorona actually uses solarbeam, and then you're out on your ass.

Save for heatran and blissey (and pory2), chandy's counters do not like facing the wrong chandelure set.

tehy said:
Well, claydol is a personal favorite, from back in gen 3 emerald battle factory when i spammed quakeslide swagger psych upping. And i need a spinner/recoverer, but i've settled on wishporeon plus pain split forry.

Edit: It doesn't learn recover? Could've sworn it did.
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Yeah, no recover on claydol. D=
Pain Split forry can work rather well. Vaporeon, I have avoided like the plague due to Rotom-W being everywhere at all times of the day. Claydol does nothing offensively and doesn't actualy wall anything either, save for terrakion, and landorus. I have no idea how he takes acrobatics from that gliscor set, and he also strongly dislikes rotom-W. He handicaps any weather team he's a part except for hail. He's a psychic type that actually becomes setup fodder for BU Conkeldurr of all things. Etc, etc...

Go for it if you think it can work. I might be missing something.
 
tehy said:
Kefka, if someone knows you have a chandelure, they're not getting rid of their chandelure counter, so how are you getting rid of any of those?\
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This isn't a good argument because this can be said of ANY sweeper.
If you can't get rid of the counters, then that's your fault, not the pokemon's.
 
Not if the sweeper lacks hard counters, and only has checks.

Not to mention, a slow sweeper extremely weak to hazards and that takes SS damage, and can't really boost its special attack, monstrous as it is.
 
tehy said:
Not if the sweeper lacks hard counters, and only has checks.

Not to mention, a slow sweeper extremely weak to hazards and that takes SS damage, and can't really boost its special attack, monstrous as it is.
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Checks, counters, you still need to get rid of them before you sweep and it's your job to do it.

I wouldn't say EXTREMELY weak(that's Volcarona), just weak <,<
And 80 base speed, believe it or not is enough at +1 to out speed most things and even without investment, it's Sp.Attack already surpasses that of Starmie who can hit pretty hard with a LO.
 
After seeing starmie totally unable to break jellicent with LO thunders, i respectfully disagree.

Oh yeah, and you have to get rid of special defense hippowdons. And special def vaporeons, because i'm going to start using that too.
 
tehy said:
After seeing starmie totally unable to break jellicent with LO thunders, i respectfully disagree.

Oh yeah, and you have to get rid of special defense hippowdons. And special def vaporeons, because i'm going to start using that too.
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IIRC, LO T-bolt 2HKOs...and Sp.def Hippos and Vaps? Not common enough for me to actually worry too much. Even then, Rotom-W/Virizion/etc. say hi.


EDIT: LO T-bolt fails to OHKO Max/Max Jelli(Who even runs that?), but LO Thunder does 49.01% - 57.92% which is a guaranteed OHKO with SR, even with Lefties.
 
T-bolt tries to 2hitko and phails miserably, thunder can maybe do it, but it's so often accompanied by rain that i get the lefties healing.

Spdef vappy is actually really good as a sp.def wall, although i may replace it with blissey(although vaporeon's roar definitely gives it an edge)
 
Kefka Palazzo™ said:
IIRC, LO T-bolt 2HKOs...and Sp.def Hippos and Vaps? Not common enough for me to actually worry too much. Even then, Rotom-W/Virizion/etc. say hi.


EDIT: LO T-bolt fails to OHKO Max/Max Jelli(Who even runs that?), but LO Thunder does 49.01% - 57.92% which is a guaranteed OHKO with SR, even with Lefties.
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Anyone who wants to survive two modest specs draco meteors from latios?

As for the thunder, it always did about half or less to me. Maybe people just don't use modest?
 
Then i usually get low damage rolls, i suppose.

As for that, i couldn't fit a steel on my team-i needed a special wall and a spinblocker in that spot. A lot of bulky ghosts can do that, but they usually lack good recovery-the only replacement was spdef spiritomb, and only because of sucker punch and pursuit.
 
alphatron said:
Nightshade Jelli has the same problems as Siesmic Toss Blissey though. Morning Sun Volcorona will laugh at you, while chest rest has more issues but will still come out on top after muscling you down. Or if you have my luck, you'll face someone who's volcorona actually uses solarbeam, and then you're out on your ass.

Save for heatran and blissey (and pory2), chandy's counters do not like facing the wrong chandelure set.

Morning sun volc in SS can't recover faster than i can attack, and i have taunt too, so i can kill a poisoned volcarona in three turns before taunt wears off.
As for chestorest, it will never come out on top, unless i lack hazards AND ss.

Yeah, no recover on claydol. D=
Pain Split forry can work rather well. Vaporeon, I have avoided like the plague due to Rotom-W being everywhere at all times of the day. Claydol does nothing offensively and doesn't actualy wall anything either, save for terrakion, and landorus. I have no idea how he takes acrobatics from that gliscor set, and he also strongly dislikes rotom-W. He handicaps any weather team he's a part except for hail. He's a psychic type that actually becomes setup fodder for BU Conkeldurr of all things. Etc, etc...

Go for it if you think it can work. I might be missing something.
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Thatsjustpeachy said:
Welcome to a stally metagame now with BP gone and exca gone and thundurus gone. We basically just switched from one poison to another. Going from having to fit a defensive wall(glis/skarm/etc) on every team to having to deal with a strong stall metagame. Once people realize how hard it is to rapid spin(no good rapid spinners imo since exca is gone) and how easy it is to get layers this metagame is heading to the toilet.
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BP wasn't banned (yet). But yea, this is going to be one dull metagame. I've already fought a ton of stall teams, and I've only fought a few battles. :(
 
Thatsjustpeachy said:
we all know the ban happiness of smogon will mean it gets banned eventually. thank god the ou voting is being frozen to prevent further damage
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While the state of the nominations thread and the Baton Pass simple majority caused me to lose faith in Smogon voters in general, this statement is slightly outrageous. Even without the suspension of the Suspect Process, we shouldn't assume that Smogon would do something as ridiculous as hard banning BATON PASS.

But I'm also glad for the suspension.
 
*sigh* And I thought the old weather wars were bad. Now instead of a bunch of weather wars, we have a bunch of stall wars. The meta has slowed down soooo much, it's starting to get really boring. I hope next round things will change...
 
Pippy said:
*sigh* And I thought the old weather wars were bad. Now instead of a bunch of weather wars, we have a bunch of stall wars. The meta has slowed down soooo much, it's starting to get really boring. I hope next round things will change...
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Things like Thundurus kept things fast. This is a predictable result of such bans. Stall isn't hard to exploit, use Prankster taunt >.>... also, interestingly, BP can exploit stall... -thinks for a moment- shit... I really hope this isn't going to go where I think it's going to go...
-Stall becomes common in metagame.
-BP can counter stall
-BP now counters a lot of the metagame.
-People mistake this as BP being overpowered.

or stallers decide to run haze -shrugs-

P.S. BP countering stall and causing the above effect is just a hypothesis, stall has ways of taking care of it, but as often stated, it depends on if some people want to adapt or not...
 
With BP stall is still beatable but with exca gone, standard sand has a harder time and with thundurus gone rain is hindered just slightly(it does have other weapons). People rather just ban stuff than adapt to the metagame. Have an HO team that doesn't work? Just ban excadrill, most people would do that instead of having to adjust to it. Your stall team getting pounded by BP teams? then just ban bp instead of changing your team to deal with it.

Sadly people don't know that there is something called A BAD MATCHUP, where your suppose to be at a disadvantage.
 
How has stall managed to get a hold at all? I don't play Gen5OU "weather tier" but I find it hard to believe that stall can be so good with the power creep in fifth gen. Mixape, Lucario, Mixmence, Haxorus, Latios can't just hit stall hard to break them?

edit: Volcarona, Terrakion, Hydriegon to name 3 more hard hitters.
 
I'm just going to roll my eyes when people talk about how banhappy Smogon is, looking at the controversial weather abilities we've all kept by a large margin, Volcarona and Dragonite, who are constantly bemoaned as 'annoying' and not getting anywhere close to a simple majority, Excadrill staying solidly OU for four rounds straight until the metagame was forced to develop around him, and the very small handful of things we've banned compared to the Pokemon that are still available, four of which were already Uber last gen, among those being Shaymin-S, Darkrai, and Manaphy, and Garchomp. Three Ubers form last gen are still here and rest solidly in the tier they've been assigned to presumably for good.

The other three?

Blaziken
Thundurus
Excadrill

Not to mention three of the Ubers we've banned thusfar were banned exclusively for their immense power under their desired weather effect. No, not Blaziken or Thundurus, just Excadrill, Garchomp, and Manaphy.

7 out of ~182 over a span of one year and five metagames (counting all Pokemon RU and above as competitively viable), "Oh no we might ban everything."

EDIT: Actually, the three Ubers I forgot about were all the current OUs: Salamence, Latios, and Latias. Good ol' Mew and Deoxys-D are doing their thing in UU.
 
Oh no, we might ban everything!!!!

"Is scared"

Seriously, i didn't think exca or thundy were necessary, but my team was designed to be pretty good against both so what am i saying eh?
 
^^ Six - Salamence, Latios, Latias, Wobbuffet, Deoxys-D, Mew

Although, I wasn't totally happy with the two recent bans, they are reasonable bans. I wouldn't call Smogon ban-happy yet, and hopefully with the new non-suspect testing process, there would be more control over the process.
 
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