That would be me. Aero does a good job at softening things like Donphan and Registeel for Stoutland to come in and sweep later. Also, it's great against Hail, because after their bulky Water is gone, nothing can take +1 Stone Edges.
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np: UU Stage 3 - We Are The Champions
- Thread starter JabbaTheGriffin
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That would be me. Aero does a good job at softening things like Donphan and Registeel for Stoutland to come in and sweep later. Also, it's great against Hail, because after their bulky Water is gone, nothing can take +1 Stone Edges.
Aerodactyl is very underrated and useful in this metagame, especially in the sand. With the spdef boost and amazing speed, Aerodactyl can actually counter some of the most powerful special attackers in the tier (Chandelure, Alakazam) that don't hit it super effectively. However, offensive Aerodactyl sacrifices the ability to counter some incredibly dangerous pokemon for very little reward. Hone Claws Aerodactyl is hard-countered by almost every relevant physical wall in UU, and between LO and SR damage, can't switch in on much at all. This set, in my opinion, plays to Aerodactyl's strengths:
Aerodactyl (M) @ Leftovers
Trait: Pressure
EVs: 248 HP / 84 Def / 176 Spd
Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
- Taunt / Substitute
- Roost
- Rock Slide
- Toxic / Earthquake
Fast taunt and very high special defense are the main things you should be taking advantage of. If you can make room for heal bell on your team, Aerodactyl can even stay in and taunt toxic bulky waters without really minding a scald burn (yes, he avoids the 2HKO from most bulky waters). Of course, you need to watch out for stuff like Cobalion who sets up all over Aerodactyl, but this should be paired with Hippowdon anyway!
Aerodactyl (M) @ Leftovers
Trait: Pressure
EVs: 248 HP / 84 Def / 176 Spd
Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
- Taunt / Substitute
- Roost
- Rock Slide
- Toxic / Earthquake
Fast taunt and very high special defense are the main things you should be taking advantage of. If you can make room for heal bell on your team, Aerodactyl can even stay in and taunt toxic bulky waters without really minding a scald burn (yes, he avoids the 2HKO from most bulky waters). Of course, you need to watch out for stuff like Cobalion who sets up all over Aerodactyl, but this should be paired with Hippowdon anyway!
Another underestimated threat in this metagame, especially with the dropping of something like Machamp into UU is Calm Mind Mew. The set:
Mew @ Leftovers
252 HP, 252 Def, 4 Spe
-Calm Mind
-Psychic
-Aura Sphere
-Roost
This set is almost impossible to 2KO after a Calm Mind boost, so the only way to beat this defensive monster is through status or extremely powerful Super-Effective attacks. Taunt can go somewhere and make this a mono-attacker if you want to beat Chansey and co, but Aura Sphere is so nice to take out Dark-types. 404/328 Physical defense and a way to boost Special Defense is great, and 100 Base Speed uninvested is still pretty fast. No wall will outspeed you, not that it really matters. If you take out your opponent's phazers and Heracross/Darmanitan, you will sweep.
Mew @ Leftovers
252 HP, 252 Def, 4 Spe
-Calm Mind
-Psychic
-Aura Sphere
-Roost
This set is almost impossible to 2KO after a Calm Mind boost, so the only way to beat this defensive monster is through status or extremely powerful Super-Effective attacks. Taunt can go somewhere and make this a mono-attacker if you want to beat Chansey and co, but Aura Sphere is so nice to take out Dark-types. 404/328 Physical defense and a way to boost Special Defense is great, and 100 Base Speed uninvested is still pretty fast. No wall will outspeed you, not that it really matters. If you take out your opponent's phazers and Heracross/Darmanitan, you will sweep.
Well....Technically spiritomb and sableye can both WoW a lot of the physical sweepers....Plus they don't get hurt by Machamp's dynamic punch. So they would kind of be a counter to machamp I guess.
Of course, you would have to run max defense on both of them to even survive a hit from machamp. Sableye would get 2 KO'd even then, and while spiritomb does have a nice base 108 defense stat, it could still find itself pushed back by a no guard stone edge.
Of course, you would have to run max defense on both of them to even survive a hit from machamp. Sableye would get 2 KO'd even then, and while spiritomb does have a nice base 108 defense stat, it could still find itself pushed back by a no guard stone edge.
The biggest issue I see with Sableye is that he is pretty much reliant on hitting a 75 accuracy move to have a chance against other physical threats aside from Machamp because of no guard. And even then, a good number of Machamps have lum berrys.
Spirtomb may not be the top of UU, but he is still a fine spin blocker.
I've been using Trickband tomb for about 3 weeks now and trying to convince others of his viability. He beats Alakazam, Victini, Missy, and chandy. He gives mew (though many do carry taunt/wow)/Uxie/Azelf/Mesprit headaches through threat of pursuit, sucker punch, or getting tricked a choice band. Sucker punch+SR is a KO on Darm I believe. I have not run calcs on flygon yet but I have sacked Tomb to kill on threatening to clean up my team. The same with Stoutland and various LO (rain) sweepers. The set I run also has WoW to burn donphan, hitmontop, and machamp specifically. I wont begin to list the pokemon that dont want a choiceband.
Though my ability to construct a solid 6 man team is questionable Spiritomb does his job very well. And no, I dont think trick specs is better because I'd rather have certain threats dead (Zam, Victini, Chandy) then force them to switch out.
It can semi-reliably beat Alakazam, sure, but the others it definitely can't. It can't switch into LO / Sash Alakazam's Grass Knot / Shadow Ball and reliably beat it (LO 2HKOes with Grass Knot, Sash 3HKOes but gets an extra hit). If it uses Sucker Punch it gets Encored (idk why people don't use this on Zam more..) and then still loses. You obviously win if you switch into Psychic though.
It can't switch into LO / Substitute Chandelure since Fire Blast OHKOes (93.09% - 109.87%).
It can't switch into Victini because it also OHKOes (LO variant OHKOes, Adamant Scarf still almost always OHKOes with Stealth Rock) with V-Create.
I'm not quite sure who you've beaten with it.....but I'm not sure what kind of person doesn't spam Fire Blast / Substitute / V-Create on their respective Chandelure / Victini.
It can't switch into LO / Substitute Chandelure since Fire Blast OHKOes (93.09% - 109.87%).
It can't switch into Victini because it also OHKOes (LO variant OHKOes, Adamant Scarf still almost always OHKOes with Stealth Rock) with V-Create.
I'm not quite sure who you've beaten with it.....but I'm not sure what kind of person doesn't spam Fire Blast / Substitute / V-Create on their respective Chandelure / Victini.
SubZam with Life Orb almost never uses Grass Knot and since SB cannot 2hko Spiritomb,Spiritomb wins.
If the set with Grass Knot you are talking about is the 4 attacks LO set then sure Spiritomb could get 2hkoed if he goes for Pursuit instead of SP or SS but let's be honest how many players are going to use GK just to catch Spiritomb on the switch?
It is easy to lure one of Zam's main attacks(Psychich and FB)and bring Spiritomb in.It takes uber prediction to just go for the GK just to catch a Spiritomb switch in.
Finally why would anyone use SP against Zam when Shadow Sneak OHKOs?
If you decide to go for the priority hit and not for Pursuit then SS is the way to go.
And anyway Spiritomb is the best Zam check out there(would have said counter but some nitpickers won't agree)and it will 95% of the time beat him without much effort.
Other than this i agree with the rest that you said.
Spirirtomb needs Def/S.def investement in order to survive any hit from Chandelure/Victini(in addition of 'course to the max hp investement).
Grass Knot is really a valuable move for an all out attacker LO zam. It takes care of bulky waters and grounds quicker and more reliably than a STAB move can, and I've found it to be all around useful.
I know man i am just asking how many times was it the first move you used when your Zam got in?
Zam usually is better spamming Psychics,Subs or trying to catch many of his checks with a FB on the switch.
On the other hand, you have no way of knowing what kind of Spiritomb it is from team preview, and if you end up using Grass Knot on a SpD Spiritomb, you've just lost your Alakazam. That's the essence of Spiritomb - simply having one restricts your opponent's options.
That said, I can't see Spiritomb doing much to the rest of UU. Of the Pokemon LMK listed, sure it beats Alakazam and Missy; it did that last gen too. But switching Spiritomb into Victini is very brave (like Heysup said, V-Create KOes depending on spread), while switching into Chandelure is very dangerous too. If Chandelure Subs on the switch, it's gg Spiritomb. There haven't been many offensive Mew around and not that many offensive Azelf either with Alakazam in the tier. Uxie and Mesprit are both very uncommon, and both are likely to put up SR, TWave, screens, weather, etc and U-turn out to a sweeper. You don't need Spiritomb to kill them then; you are better off switching in an offensive Pokemon that can safely set up on them. The best Spiritomb can hope for vs. Chandelure and Victini is a 50/50, which is not good. Having to go for Sucker Punch vs. Darmanitan is also not encouraging - a choice-locked Sucker Punch is easy set-up bait.
So yeah, I don't see Spiritomb as a very useful Pokemon in the metagame. Certainly in the games I've played against it it's not done much. If there's more to Tomb than written here, I'd like to see it (I guess it can help deplete Machamp's Dynamic Punch PP with Pressure).
The only problem with alakazam and I stress only is his limited number of moveslots and use of only one item. If alakazam could he would run psyshock, psychic, grass knot, focus blast, shadow ball, substitute, and encore; not even mentioning calm mind.
I second the motions that spiritomb isn't great in the meta bar very specific pokemon which in such a diverse metagame is not a desired trait in a pokemon.
I second the motions that spiritomb isn't great in the meta bar very specific pokemon which in such a diverse metagame is not a desired trait in a pokemon.
The analysis has it as a primary move with no slashes.
So i cannot see why it wouldn't have it.Maybe in a few occasions it would run WoW or something else but the standard is SS.
Sub + LO with three attacks is practically his only set. He doesn't need anything else. Calm Mind and Grass Knot are nice to have, but at the end of the day, not necessary. Psyshock isn't even that big a deal, considering how little Chansey is doing now in the face of Sand/Hail and hazards. Even if she walls you, she won't for long. Get a couple of layers down and look who can't switch in.
If you look at it this way, Zam didn't change much fundamentally at all. His STAB still kind of sucks and lacks the oomph to get the KO's he's looking for. Flygon, for example, can switch right in as long as he has a scarf. Guessing for sash or LO isn't going to stop me from bringing in my special tank either. Even without any of those, you might find yourself staring down a Weavile or Stoutland itching to Pursuit you and there's nothing you can do about it. For all of the things Zam can do now, there are just as many ways to take him out, not even digging into the annals of RU/NU.
The only problem I seem to have with him now is that he's stealing usage from my poor little Mew. :( The Psychics of UU are all fighting really hard for their spot, and it'd be interesting to see how usage statistics play out next month with that tug o' war in mind.
Can't agree with that SJCrew - losing Grass Knot means you can't hit Suicune, Quagsire, Rhyperior, and more. Moreover, with Sash, you can attack with Psychic / Psyshock and point Focus Blast at Stoutland and Weavile. They cannot KO you, you OHKO back. Alakazam improved tremendously with Magic Guard. If you've yet to use it, I suggest you try out the Sash variant, substituting it as a revenge killer (use Psyshock to hit Calm Minders).
Agree there are a lot of excellent Psychic Pokemon in UU though. Slowbro is a superb wall, Xatu gets Magic Bounce, Mew is Mew, Azelf still has Levitate and coverage over Alakazam, etc.
Agree there are a lot of excellent Psychic Pokemon in UU though. Slowbro is a superb wall, Xatu gets Magic Bounce, Mew is Mew, Azelf still has Levitate and coverage over Alakazam, etc.
Alakazam is pretty scary if it's used right. If it comes in safely, it hits extremely hard, then just runs away / gets pursuited.
Chandelure is cool too, aside from Porygon2 (Flash Fire variants), there isn't much a SubCM variant cant hurt.
Also Machamp is sexy, but I wouldn't call it broken.
Roserade / Donphan / Hitmontop / Empoleon are all still awesome
Just what I think so far
Chandelure is cool too, aside from Porygon2 (Flash Fire variants), there isn't much a SubCM variant cant hurt.
Also Machamp is sexy, but I wouldn't call it broken.
Roserade / Donphan / Hitmontop / Empoleon are all still awesome
Just what I think so far
In your part of the ladder people dont use FB on alakazam? Tomb switches in to half his moveset. It isnt diffiicult to predict when he will use Psychic or FB. And I have NEVER seen anyone use encore. Ever. Yes, he can outpredict me but no point in going down that road because you can always create a situation where you are the winner of the prediction war. Why does it matter if I get 2HKO when I 1HKO Zam with priority? Or if he switches, I kill him. Yes, there is an element of mindgames (If he knows my moveset) but once again, if its all about who out predicts who the argument can go either way. In my experience, Tomb handles alakazam very well. YMMV
Never played against a LO Victini. Many victini opt to U-turn early in the match if they see a fire resist (which I normally have as tomb doesnt check fire pokes in general) the same with chandelure (no early FB spam). I can switch into victini once and thats really all I need to kill him. The same can be said for chandelure in a way. If I predict fireblast/sub I dont send in tomb usually unless I dont have a choice. Your scenarios all require me to switch in to them and it's important to remember that if they switch in to me they die. Having tomb on my teams has allowed me a much easier go of working against some of these threats. By himself he doesnt 100% counter each one but I cant find a pokemon with his particular utility. I did say he was highly specialized to neuter threats. If I have to sack tomb to kill Zam, Victini, and/or Chandy then so be it. That is why he is on the team.
He can fill that roll in addition to spinblocking, revenge killing, tricking, and burning other key threats. He has fit into some teams well and others not so much. I'm not using him on my current team and likely wont for a while because I have other ideas to try but when it comes to having a "niche" I think Tomb has a place. I'm not the greatest battler so you could likely design a team that doesnt need spiritomb at all but I like to play around and discover options to beat new threats. The only reason I started using tomb was because I had ScarfKrook but the prevelance of spinners was ridiculous and I still wanted a way to kill some of these psychics. I tried out tomb. Spinblocked for me, was a good pursuit trapper, burned common spinners/machamp (if necessary) while giving me a revenge option vs. some threats. And then there was trick which can go both ways. Just relating my experience.
Also, Sand is pretty annoying, especially Stoutland, which feels like a UU Excadrill to me. Sand teams pretty much make themselves. Hippowdon, Roserade, and a Bulky water, then throw in Stoutland and a spin blocker and whatever else tickles your fancy. Haven't seen much hail / rain yet so I cant really comment on that. Tornadus has also been pretty underwhelming, which isn't what I expected
Don't forget sandslash moo. Sandslash is another underrated threat that could be devastating if not prepared for it. It can rapid spin, swords dance, and has acces to STAB earthquake. I think it would be a solid partner with hippowdon (who sets up rocks and roars), stoutland (the main sweeper), Cradily (stops bulky waters), and two other possible mons to clear things up. You could try putting maybe sawsbuck on for herbivore maybe...... Or there's the option of Aerodactyl who can do taunting or setting up.
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