OU CCAT: Nidoking Edition

Choice Socks said:
Forgotten but effective pokemon? There is one that has fallen out the limelight, he was voted on a few times iirc, but in recent times he has been very quiet, dropping down the usage charts quickly and falling into obscurity. But a unprepared team will quickly find themselves ripped apart by him. I'm talking of course about...

Offensive Trickroom Reuniclus

reuniclus.png



Reuniclus @ Life Orb
Ability:Magic Guard
Nature: Quiet
IV's: 0 Spe
EV's: 192 HP / 64 Def / 252 SpA
Moveset:
- Trick Room
- Psychic / Psyshock
- Focus Blast / Hidden Power Fire
- Shadow Ball

My all time favourite OU pokemon. He boasts great special attack, good bulk and the best ability in the game. Thanks to magic guard he takes no notice of weather, entry hazards, or his Life orb recoil, giving his attacks that extra boost for free. Magic guard also helps him shut down stall completely as he is not taking residual damage every turn. HO offensive teams are also countered by this pokemon as he steals there momentum rather easily with trickroom.
He is not without his flaws, depending on what 4th move you chose, he is countered by either Scizor and Jirachi or Tyranitar, which is why team support to get these threats out the way is essential. He also appreciates entry hazards like all sweepers to help turn all those 2HKO's into OHKO's
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Reuniclus is awesome as a late game sweeper and has only improved in this round with HO's increase in usage. It would actually be really good sweeper ob a hail team with Kyurem luring in and 2KOing Scizor/putting it in fb KO range.
 
Does Kyurem really need hail? I've been using scarf Kyurem with Draco Meteor / Ice Beam / Focus Blast / Hp Fire and besides the loss of blizzard and some residual it isn't too big of a deal. I'd rather use something like Starmie and teammates that support it that are really good at covering Kyurem than Abamasnow because it just doubles on weaknesses. Yea I'm really bad at using hail and weather in general since I sacrifice stuff alot, but I see having an extra mon over abama as worth it. Kyurem is really good though since dragonite is on EVERY team now, especially with spin support. Also I love how Kyurem is an excellent Starmie switch in, something that teams are very weak to. Correct me if I'm wrong though, I'm just not a fan of having so many ice types (even 1 is too many unless it's kyurem or mamo imo)

Also I did test some of the sets mentioned, especially Agiligross. I've found that it doesn't have too many counters (Skarm / Zor / Rotom / Ferro) and they are generally easy to weaken with the right lures, but they are just too common. It's rare that you don't see a team with 1 or more of them. On the other hand it is excellent at being a pivot against eq-less nite with ice punch and latios and tornadus. Haven't use it in ages, but Azelf works really well under screens. no more revenging with BP, easy setup, ect. I've used NP mew alot more, and they are very similar. Basically nothing walls, only worried about scarfers / faster mons.

Gyarados is one sweeper not mentioned here. Double edge / return gyara in particular OHKOs Rotom with a +1 LO double edge. Teams are not prepared for it!
 
If we're serious about basing a team around abusing Zoroark's Illusion, the one mon I keep hearing that fits the various similarities it has to have (low defenses, about the same speed, vulnerable to both spikes, SR neutral, good mixed attacking capability) is Infernape. True, Zoroark tends to lean towards the role of special attacker, but he's going to need a scarf to avoid getting shut down by the Latis, particularly if it's a CM build.

Lucario is another good choice for a Zoroark illusion. It can just run so many sets that Zoroark can totally fill a hole-punching role with its special attacks and superior speed while the actual Steel Jackal can lie in wait to destroy what remains with its own arsenal of special attacks. This one-two punch of similar sweepers has been proven effective with partnerships such as Excadrill/Landorus. It should also be noted that Snarl is by no means exclusive to Zoroark: I've actually managed to use it on Arcanine to some extent by using it on a predicted Surf, thus enabling him to survive the attack and get in another hit before fainting.

One could even go so far as to try to pass off Zoroark as another sort of Pokemon entirely. I've personally been caught napping and was fooled by a Forretress guise on PO, and I've used Togekiss's NP set as a cover before. In both cases, the idea is to lure out the illusory monster's counters and have Zoroark take them down so the real McCoy can do its job that much more effectively.

In any case, I do not recommend running Zoroark if you're not confident in your ability to mess with your opponent's head.
 
Alright, those of you who know me know what's coming. My favorite Pokemon of this generation and what's clearly become my personal pet project, Hydration Stall Vaporeon. I'll just quote the base set directly from the Analysis I have written up awaiting approval.

Name: Vaporeon: Hydration Wall
move 1: Rest
move 2: Scald / Surf
move 3: Roar / Wish / Haze (Haze preferred by me)
move 4: Toxic / Ice Beam (might be moved to AC)
item: Leftovers
ability: Hydration
nature: Bold
evs: 252 HP / 224 Def / 32 SpD (alternate, 252hp/252def/4spe, allows it to outspeed Jellicent's taunt and toxic it first)

This thing is insane. It can wall pretty much anything that doesn't have a powerful electric or grass type attack in the rain. Seriously, if you name it, it can wall it. The only thing it can't reliably wall that isn't a grass or electric type is CB Haxorus, unless Latios is carrying Thunderbolt/Thunder. It can out-stall entire teams sometimes, and usually once you remove its few counters it's pretty much game over. I honestly don't know why it doesn't see more use. I suppose the overlap with Politoed turns people off, but since Vaporeon has the durability and versatility of three Pokemon, it's worth it.

Others I like on here are Cloyster and Darmanitan. I don't want to do Salamence though, since calling it "forgotten" is a bit of a stretch; it's only forgotten in comparison to Dragonite. It still gets used plenty and people know its deadly. A Pokemon should not be classified as "forgotten" by comparing it to the SINGLE MOST USED POKEMON IN THE GAME, regardless of how similar the two are. Gottit?
 
Birkal - While I like Bandgross much more than its Agility variants, I am still a bit wary about Metagross on the whole. Meteor Mash's accuracy frightens me to this day, while being locked into a Choice Steel attack is not always optimal. Furthermore, there are lots of threats in today's metagame that don't do Metagross any favors, namely Dragonite, Ninetales, Ferrothorn, Jellicent, Sableye, Skarmory, Politoed... the list goes on. And while ThunderPunch might alleviate some of these issues, I question its power on Metagross (maybe some calcs could help clear things up).
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I agree that CB Steel sucks, but I believe the secondary STAB Zen Headbutt provides great neutral coverage. Yes, being locked into a Psychic move generally sucks, too, but Metagross is not horribly weak to Pursuit, and I believe it provides another good STAB to spam other than Meteor Mash

Here are some calcs:
Zen Headbutt

Magnezone (36 HP): 33-40%
Jellicent (252 HP / 252+ Def): 49-58%
Politoed (252 HP / 252+ Def): 50-58%
Rotom-W (252 HP / 252+ Def): 50-59%
Quagsire (252 HP / 252+ Def): 45-53%
Gyarados (248 HP / 252+ Def): 47-55%
Conkeldurr after 1 Bulk Up (120 HP): 81-96%
So Zen Headbutt makes bulky Waters a shaky answer to CBGross. Metagross would definitely appreciate SR support to ensure 2HKOs on most of them. 2HKO is missed slightly by Quagsire, but it can be easily achieved with very little residual damage. 20% flinch chance makes Quagsire's win chance a shaky prospect.

I added Magnezone's calc to show that even the Steel Killer wont be able to switch into its resisted STAB move easily. Still Metagross loses 1 vs 1, so the team needs something to take out Magnezone early on.
ThunderPunch

Skarmory (252 HP / 252+ Def): 47-55%
Slowbro (252 HP / 252+ Def): 47-56%
ThunderPunch deals with Skarmory and Slowbro well: 2HKO with SR.
Meteor Mash

Gliscor (252 HP / 252+ Def): 48-57%
Hippowdon (252 HP / 252+ Def): 42-50%
Celebi (252 HP / 252+ Def): 49-58%
Tangrowth (252 HP / 252+ Def): 42-50%
Chansey (252 HP / 252+ Def): 51-61%
Dragonite w/ MultiScale (0 HP): 44-52%
Reuniclus OTR (252 HP / 0 Def): 82-96%
Reuniclus CM (252 HP / 252+ Def): 56-66%
MMash is boss, doing massive damage to one of the most defensive mons. Celebi and Gliscor usually runs speed EVs, so you can expect to 2HKO most variants you encounter. The only safe switch-ins are Hippowdon and Tangrowth, but spamming MMash means a 20% chance to raise Meta's Atk, in which case those 2 are toast.

Metagross is a good answer to OTR Reuniclus. It can soak up a Focus Blast for 56-67% and retaliate with a lethal Meteor Mash. CM Reuniclus can't win.
Hammer Arm

Bronzong (252 HP / 252+Def): 35-42%
Forretress (252 HP / 252+ Def): 29-35%
Heatran (252 HP / 0 Def): 90-107%
Ferrothorn (252 HP / 252+ Def): 62-74%
Jirachi (252 HP / 0 Def): 45-53%
Skarmory (252 HP / 252+ Def): 31-37%
Hammer Arm completes the coverage by hitting Steel Types for mostly good damage. Hammer Arm + 2 Meteor Mash kills Ferrothorn, so you only need to predict once with Hammer Arm to neutralize it. Specially-defensive Heatran is OHKOed with SR. Jirachi would find it difficult to pass Wishes without Protect, and Skarmory can't Roost off the damage. Bronzong rarely runs max Def, so it will be banged up quickly.

Forretress is indeed a fortress that can stop Metagross if it has Earthquake.
 
Im going to just put this set out here, and i think it's worth some consideration
Latias @ leftovers
Nature: Timid
Ev's: 252 HP, 252 Spe, 4 Spa
-Calm mind
-Recover
-Reflect type
-Dragon pulse

This looks like a standard CM set, but with a twist. If your opponent sends in a pokemon to counter latias, for example, Tyranitar, and go for a Super effective move on Latias, like crunch or pursuit hoping you would switch out. You reflect type on T-tar, and all of a sudden YOU have the better situation. Sure, losing the STAB dragon pulse will hurt, but it's worth it. Suddenly your opponent can't do anything to you, and you can just CM up on him.
This set catches a lot of people off guard and can completely wreck their startegy. I've been using this set for ages, and it is amazing. I think it needs more love and definately should be considered.
 
Realistically if we are basing a team around kyurem hail would be more of a hindrance than than a benefit. As hail severely lowers the amount of teammates that could be used to support it, because we would then require a majority of the team to be hail resistant. These same team members would then be weak to the same moves as kyurem itself. Im sure you can see why this is a bad thing when basing a team around a pokemon. If we decide to make a hail team as the direction we go then things will obviously be different, but i think hail, although better than it is given credit for, is underrated for a reason; the abundence of steel, rock, and fighting types in the metagame. Not only that all of the other weather teams have an advantage over hail teams even if their weather is not up: water resists ice, sun uses fire types which are super effective, and sandstorm has steel and rock.

Id like to see more about zapdos and darmitan (choice band darmitan only, because there are so many support directions we can go for a choice band user that for the most part needs to spam one very powerful move). i like zapdos, because it looks cool (i know what a vain reason) and its just a great bulky pokemon that can dish out pain. Zapdos has many other viable sets than its bulk one sub roost was particularlilly annoying for me last gen.
A set that I loved is the sub roost set except with the moveset of substitute roost discharge and roar, because it works wonders with entry hazards and spreading paralysis.
 
Although Hail has been done before, it is an underdog playstyle (even Sun has become mainstream). In addition, it would be interesting to see how Hail teams would fare in Post-Round V, since a handful of them depended on Excadrill to spin (and check other Excadrill I guess).

I can attest to Vaporeon's HydraRest set's durability suggested by Jimera0. Extremely hard to take out, and Vappy provides solid defensive backing when raining.

Azelf reminds me of Thundurus, with its access to Nasty Plot, amazing Speed and SAtk combination, and just the right moves to break through most walls. The key difference - Azelf's is weaker to priority and Pursuit than Thundurus, making Azelf food for ScarfTar / CB Scizor.

Azelf's Life Orb destruction is amazing, though. +2 LO HP Fighting OHKOs 252 HP / 252 SDef Sassy Ttar 56% of the time w/o Rocks! (92-108%). Sadly, HP Fighting does 76-88% to Scarftar, so it can't lure-and-kill w/ Rocks, unless we take Mostwanted's advice and lay a layer of Spikes, too.

It's cringe-worthy to lose the speed-tie against Starmie, but finishing TTar and Heatran is definitely worth it :d
 
I would like to suggest a physically defensive support Tangrowth. Tangrowth could always fill an interesting niche in 4th gen with it's crazy physical bulk, and gen 5 gave it the incredibly useful regenerator ability. however, Tangrowth has yet to make a splash in 5th gen with ferrothorn hanging around.

the sleep powder/knock off combination can really cripple the other team and fills a much different support role than Ferrothorn. Knock off is a very strong support move and we don't really see it as much as we should in OU. Paired with a specially defensive bulky water, Tangrowth can cause a lot of trouble.
 
I use a max Def and HP Tangrowth on my rain team. Regenerator really helps. Can completely wall Ferothorn and hit back with Focus Miss. Knocks Off many items to my opponents switch-ins so I can kill them easly. My MVP most of the time.
 
How to use Darmanitan

No, seriously, we NEED to use Darmanitan. I really want to see what the community can come up with that I didn't in order to make him succeed in the best way possible. It's just outrageously powerful. There have been enough calcs posted already, I don't really need to waste my time telling you guys anymore about his prowess.
 
Xephyr - In Conclusion
Heatran fucks me up a bit.
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Can't you easily solve this problem by giving it Life Orb? I mean Darmanitan in the sun is overkill already; why not make use of 0-drawback Life Orb, thanks to its Sheer Force. I'd rather have the freedom to switch moves than the 50% boost with a locked move. This way Darmanitan doesn't NEED to spam Flare Blitz - it can utilize Sheer Force boosted Rock Slide / Fire Punch to preserve its health, and Superpower can be used against things like Blissey, Heatran, Politoed, and Tyranitar.

Basically I support LO Darmanitan :d

EDIT: I also like Razza's suggestion in the previous page about Wobbuffet. As shrang has claimed in the General Metagame thread, I think Wobbuffet is a forgotten threat. It was deemed BL for its ability to Tickle Chansey to death in UU - I am pretty sure it can achieve something similar in OU. Wobbuffet especially comes in handy in "revenging" scarf mons, which can aid your Set-Up Sweeper(s), not to mention its access to Encore and possibly Safeguard. A well-played Wobbuffet can net 1 or 2 free kills. Wobbuffet offers some support that is unique to Wobbuffet, and I think certain numbers of Sweepers can truly shine with Wobbu support.
 
Pocket said:
Can't you easily solve this problem by giving it Life Orb? I mean Darmanitan in the sun is overkill already; why not make use of 0-drawback Life Orb, thanks to its Sheer Force. I'd rather have the freedom to switch moves and lose some power. This way Darmanitan doesn't NEED to spam Flare Blitz - it can utilize Sheer Force boosted Rock Slide / Fire Punch to preserve its health, and Superpower can be used against things like Blissey, Heatran, Politoed, and Tyranitar.

Basically I support LO Darmanitan :d
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Hmmm....

I'm not sure why I've never thought of that, lol.
 
Bisharp and Azelf are really good ideas. Azelf can also run an effective SD set, but it doesn't have quite as good coverage there.
 
Well, if it's not gonna be Victini, I'd go for SD Bisharp. One of those pokes that people waste by having it use Stealth Rock or turning it into a poor man's Jirachi with T-Wave and Iron Head. I've swept countless teams with SD Bisharp in OU, it's fantastic.

What's so special about Darmanitan? I thought this was supposed to be about a set for a Pokemon that isn't common. Darmanitan is certainly not uncommon and it has 3 sets (Band, Scarf, LO, right?), none of which will make anyone go "Wow, never seen that one before."
 
What's so special about Darmanitan? I thought this was supposed to be about a set for a Pokemon that isn't common. Darmanitan is certainly not uncommon and it has 3 sets (Band, Scarf, LO, right?), none of which will make anyone go "Wow, never seen that one before."
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It's among the best Pokemon I've ever used and DEFINITELY the most powerful that I've ever used, yet it's UU. You think SD Bisharp is something people have never seen before? It's the only set it can even run.
 
ok SO

I'm goign to edit in the OP asap but any submissions for this will have to be in THIS FRIDAY, November 11th. for anyone that hasn't submitted an entry yet, do so if you're going to!
 
I'm in complete support of Wobbuffet. It's the definition of a forgotten threat as most people who didn't play with it last gen have no idea what it can handle. Sure, there are a few more 'mons that it can't take on, but I definitely think Wobb can provide fantastic team support regardless of the power creep.
 
Xephyr said:
It's among the best Pokemon I've ever used and DEFINITELY the most powerful that I've ever used, yet it's UU. You think SD Bisharp is something people have never seen before? It's the only set it can even run.
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Whenever I see a Bisharp it's a Sash SR lead or some Iron head bullshit. If I ever see it at all which I usually don't. If we're gonna use the most powerful pokemon, might as well use Banded Haxorus
 
MC Fatigue said:
Whenever I see a Bisharp it's a Sash SR lead or some Iron head bullshit. If I ever see it at all which I usually don't. If we're gonna use the most powerful pokemon, might as well use Banded Haxorus
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Sun boosted Flare Blitz is a hell of a lot stronger than anything banded Haxorus can muster.
 
| 59 | Darmanitan | 10149 | 2.632% |

| 125 | Bisharp | 2088 | 0.541% |

Conclusion: Darmanitan is more common than Bisharp.
 
I'm not saying we should use the least common thing, if that were the case we should go with Choice Specs Unown (not that bad actually) or Banded Delibird. I'm fine with Darmanitan if everybody wants to use it. I was just saying that something like Bisharp is a lot more interresting to use and catches people off guard. After all, who prepares their OU team for powerful Dark type attacks?
 
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