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Gen V Initial NU Metagame Thread
- Thread starter Oglemi
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oh yes Rotom.... Such a freaking troll!! He's really bulky and he's got that damn T-wave confuse ray combo and air slash to boot. He even gets will-o-wisp and trick...
The Rotom Fan is one of the few things that can beat my team if played correctly. My specially defensive Altaria doesn't care about it too much, and my Cryogonal can hurt it pretty bad with Ice Beam, but neither can stand up too it if it gets a few Air Slash haxes. I don't have anything that can just straight up beat it guaranteed. The rest of my team has either a weakness to it or absolutely can not take special attacks (fuck you Weezing).
Funny enough, I use both Jynx and Rotom F on my team, and they are both as awesome as everyone says.
Max Defensive Rotom-F checks a huge amount of NU's biggest threats, like Swellow, Braviary, Klingklang and Scarf Sawk. IIRC, a Guts Swellow's Facade only does ~63% to Rotom, which is essentially the most damage any of these mon's can do since it resists the majority of their STAB's. It also hits the fliers and Sawk for SE damage, and can break Klinklang's subs with T-bolt. Not to mention Wow.
Jynx does suffer from 4 move-slot syndrome, since in an ideal world it would like to run Lovely Kiss, NP, Ice Beam, Psychic and Focus Blast/Grass Knot. I'm going to have to disagree with you on the "average speed" sentiment though. Jynx's speed stat is actually relatively uncommon in NU, and if you remove most of the mon's I mentioned above ^, very little is going to be outspeeding it. At least that is my experience of using it.
Max Defensive Rotom-F checks a huge amount of NU's biggest threats, like Swellow, Braviary, Klingklang and Scarf Sawk. IIRC, a Guts Swellow's Facade only does ~63% to Rotom, which is essentially the most damage any of these mon's can do since it resists the majority of their STAB's. It also hits the fliers and Sawk for SE damage, and can break Klinklang's subs with T-bolt. Not to mention Wow.
Jynx does suffer from 4 move-slot syndrome, since in an ideal world it would like to run Lovely Kiss, NP, Ice Beam, Psychic and Focus Blast/Grass Knot. I'm going to have to disagree with you on the "average speed" sentiment though. Jynx's speed stat is actually relatively uncommon in NU, and if you remove most of the mon's I mentioned above ^, very little is going to be outspeeding it. At least that is my experience of using it.
Luckily for me, I run 2 absolutely guaranteed hard-stops, so lovely kiss doesn't even affect my ability to stop it. This tier has some excellent specially defensive juggernauts that don't get used enough (Slowking is the only run that's used heavily).
What would you guys say is the best offensive poke that benefits from TR but doesn't need it to function (that isn't a Psychic type)?
I've been really meaning to try SD Armaldo. Slow as ass (45), great attack (125), and great STABs for this tier. Stone Edge, X-Scissor, Earthquake with a Swords Dance under Trick Room would rip most teams apart.
The only reason I haven't tried him is because my team isn't a dedicated Trick Room team, even though I'm using TR Slowking.
Armaldo doesn't do so hot outside of TR though. Only 2 resistances, a weakness to SR, and weak to Water and Rock.
I'd say Torterra, who's slow enough for TR and appreciates using the freed moveslot from RP for Leech Seed/SR/Swords Dance.
Alternatively, I'd say maybe Elektross or Emboar. Guts Ursaring would be amazing in TR, but it's low defenses would almost be a liability outside it.
I'd say Torterra, who's slow enough for TR and appreciates using the freed moveslot from RP for Leech Seed/SR/Swords Dance.
Alternatively, I'd say maybe Elektross or Emboar. Guts Ursaring would be amazing in TR, but it's low defenses would almost be a liability outside it.
Actually, I tried armaldo in/out of TR as an offensive spinner (rapid spin/ EQ/ stone edge/ xscissor) and it does pretty damn well so far
CB Emboar would probably be very scary under TR, or life orb for that matter. Back onto the Jynx topic, luckily Slowking won't be doing much if it's only attack moves are scald and ice beam / psychic. Jynx is immune to scald thanks to Dry Skin and resists ice beam / psychic. However for Jynx, she can easily lovely kiss the slowking or set up 3 nasty plots and try to break through with Psyshock (Provided you run psyshock instead of psychic)
Dragonite also has Multiscale, an immunity and several useful resistances, and a not-terrible Speed stat outside of TR.
He said he wanted something that doesn't need TR to function well. SD Armaldo can't sweep when he doesn't have speed. He's not a sweeper when TR isn't up.
I'm sorry, but how is dragonite relevant to NU? Dragonite has multiscale BTW which helps a lot, and higher speed, and DD, and extremespeed, and can run special attacks. That is a lot of differences from armaldo.
Besides, he said that armaldo doesn't do well outside of TR. Most waters and rocks can outspeed armaldo when there's no TR. Scald hurts it like crap, and burning it doesn't help either. Plus, his abilities are really only sub par aside from SS, but I haven't seen any rain dance teams in NU yet for that matter.
Armaldo is OK, I guess. I've tried to use him outside of TR, but it just doesn't work. TR is really all he can do, and once TR is down, he's a mess (and I'm not hating on him. I actually love this dude, and seeing him get bashed hurts me, but it's the truth).
Besides, he said that armaldo doesn't do well outside of TR. Most waters and rocks can outspeed armaldo when there's no TR. Scald hurts it like crap, and burning it doesn't help either. Plus, his abilities are really only sub par aside from SS, but I haven't seen any rain dance teams in NU yet for that matter.
Armaldo is OK, I guess. I've tried to use him outside of TR, but it just doesn't work. TR is really all he can do, and once TR is down, he's a mess (and I'm not hating on him. I actually love this dude, and seeing him get bashed hurts me, but it's the truth).
Hail has been doing wonderfully - i mean you have snover, WALREIN, Rotom-F, and Glaceon of all Pokemon - Blizzard just shits on a ton of things, even with Scarf Glaceon - you can 2HKO slowking with Blizzard after Spikes damage, to put that in comparison. Alternatively, I've been using SubSplit Rotom-F on my hail team and it's actually been doing quite nicely, with Tbolt / blizzard / substitute / pain split and and an offensive spread w/ LO. It's actually really effective because not only does it take apart most stall (if you play right you can beat defensive Lickilicky 1 v 1), but the fact that it hits so much with its STAB attacks is amazing. I don't think I need to explain Walrein. Also, Eviolite Snover is actually surprisingly bulky - he's really slow though, so if you think a bulky water is carrying Toxic, I wouldn't switch it in.
Also, Torkoal is actually surprisingly effective as a physical wall for hail - he checks magmortar effectively with a lot of SpDef investment and even at that he tanks most neutral physical hits in the tier that aren't super effective (aka he checks a bunch of things). Regirock is also an excellent physical wall, and he's one of a few solid counters to Swellow, not to mention he can both hit hard back (base 100 attack people) and he sets down SR!
edit: yeah any time i've faced armaldo he's actually been pretty underwhelming since nobody seems to be running RP X_X
Also, Torkoal is actually surprisingly effective as a physical wall for hail - he checks magmortar effectively with a lot of SpDef investment and even at that he tanks most neutral physical hits in the tier that aren't super effective (aka he checks a bunch of things). Regirock is also an excellent physical wall, and he's one of a few solid counters to Swellow, not to mention he can both hit hard back (base 100 attack people) and he sets down SR!
edit: yeah any time i've faced armaldo he's actually been pretty underwhelming since nobody seems to be running RP X_X
It's very relevant. Dragonite's speed isn't great for OU at all. Think of it in perspective of their respective tiers, please.
As someone who's near the top of the ladder pretty much 24/7 in this tier and as someone who has used Armaldo quite a bit in NU, I can safely say that it's good, even the SD set. Of the top 20 Pokemon in the tier, Armaldo OHKO's 12 of them, while very few of them can do much back.
Aww don't even remind me of hail Zurich ha ha! Every time I face one I always get a little scared because sometimes I beat them, sometimes I don't... a well constructed hail team can rip my team to shreds.
Also, don't forget Jynx in hail ha ha! she doesn't get anything like snow cloak or boltbeam coverage but she does get Nasty Plot, Lovely Kiss, and an amazing speed stat
Also, don't forget Jynx in hail ha ha! she doesn't get anything like snow cloak or boltbeam coverage but she does get Nasty Plot, Lovely Kiss, and an amazing speed stat
Actually, I haven't seen a Hail team in a LONG time... but what I do remember is that due to Snow Cloak shenanigans causing me to lose my main opportunity to destroy it with Scarf Sawk (the only thing that isn't demolished by it on standard Hail iirc is Scarf Timid Rotom-F)
Also, if you ever face an Armaldo who doesn't give a shit about Speed and goes for bulk (like mine), it works like a charm. People set up hazards on it all the time thinking "oh, its an Armaldo, it can't do anything to me"
But then I kill the poke who sets up a layer, spin away the hazards, and continue to screw shit up with my 383 Attack stat, 354/236/197 defensive stats, and damn good coverage with Rock/Bug/Ground.
EDIT: And you can never forget how Battle Armor says "go away" to hax
Also, if you ever face an Armaldo who doesn't give a shit about Speed and goes for bulk (like mine), it works like a charm. People set up hazards on it all the time thinking "oh, its an Armaldo, it can't do anything to me"
But then I kill the poke who sets up a layer, spin away the hazards, and continue to screw shit up with my 383 Attack stat, 354/236/197 defensive stats, and damn good coverage with Rock/Bug/Ground.
EDIT: And you can never forget how Battle Armor says "go away" to hax
actually weezing will wall sawk lol it really can't touch it while it can demolish it with Sludge Bomb or WoW. It gets pain split too so that helps for recovery.
Also has anyone tried a double dragon strategy yet? vis-a-vis Eviolite Fraxure + Altaria to smash through each others counters so the other can sweep.
Also has anyone tried a double dragon strategy yet? vis-a-vis Eviolite Fraxure + Altaria to smash through each others counters so the other can sweep.
If it wasn't for the drizzle/swift swim combo ban, carracosta may have actually had some use in the OU metagame. They say that one bad egg ruins the bunch. Unfortunately, kingdra ruined things for everyone.
isn't swift swim Carracosta's DW ability? Either way that kind of has nothing to do with the NU metagame....
Edit: Also, I love dry skin Jynx now! a Gorebyss tried hitting me with a surf but I psyshocked it in the face and got the KO ha ha!
Edit: Also, I love dry skin Jynx now! a Gorebyss tried hitting me with a surf but I psyshocked it in the face and got the KO ha ha!
If you're going to use Double Dragon, why wouldn't you use Druddigon, which has way more power. CB Outrage does 41% - 49% to the most defensive Klinklang ever seen (not divulging the EVs because its my personal spread) which is REALLY solid damage, and it gets Earthquake which obviously wrecks it. It also does 58%-68% to max/max bold Weezing, which is really nice.
I disagree 100%, you can pretty easily play around it since: all the spinners are weak to SR, Klinklang is dominant in the metagame and wrecks everything on a hail team except Slowking, and CB Sawk punches huge holes in teams because again, Slowking won't be around forever. It's a decent-good team archetype, and when built right it can be a pain in the ass. However, broken it is not.
In fact, I don't really think anything is outright broken in this metagame. There are no threats that you just have no answer to, unlike say Yanmega in RU or Kyurem in UU. However I have a feeling that when the tiers update on January 1st, we're going to be dealing with a bunch of mons that are about to drop from RU. But that's still a month away, so let's enjoy the balanced metagame while we can!
Even though I'm not that high up on the ladder, using Tail Glow Volbeat, Calm Mind Musharna, and Glaceon is actually really funny. Even though I don't run Baton Pass on Glaceon, passing boosts around is fun, and if Glaceon gets +2 or +3 SpA, then it just wrecks everything. Ice Beam/Shadow Ball/HP Ground gets perfect neutral coverage, but the worst part is that Klinklang just ruins it unless I have a Sub up before and haven't taken too much damage. I've gotten full sweeps multiple times with either Musharna or Glaceon. Of course, it's easily counterable, but Glaceon is still pretty strong without boosts.
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