Roserade [QC 3/3]

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Mew

Mew

QC approved: 3/3 (Snunch, JabbaTheGriffin, Chou Toshio)

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Roserade

[OVERVIEW]
<p>In a metagame overrun by entry hazards, Roserade stands out as one of the "Big three" among spikers, the other two being Froslass and Deoxys-D. Although Roserade can effectively perform the role of Spiker, her best set is perhaps the offensive set. Access to Sleep Powder with average Speed is mostly what sets her apart from other (Toxic) Spikers. The cherry on the pie is her ability, Natural Cure, which heals any status ailment by simply switching out. But not only switching out is a positive situation for Roserade, because upon switching in, she absorbs Toxic Spikes as well. Roserade doesn't just shine at a supporting role, she also has a 125 base Special Attack stat and can abuse that very effectively using powerful moves such as Leaf Storm and Sludge Bomb. Sleep Powder also complements her offensive capabilities, as it gives her a chance against special walls. </p>

<p>Sadly, Roserade isn't perfect, as straight against her good 105 base Special Defense, she is very physically frail with only 55 base Defense. With her typing come weaknesses to common Fire-, Ice-, Psychic-, and Flying-type attacks which will often force her to switch out.</p>

<p>Some players consider Roserade broken for some of the aforementioned reasons, but while she remains UU, Roserade is a top-tier threat and should be reckoned as such.</p>

[SET]
name: Spikes
move 1: Spikes
move 2: Giga Drain
move 3: Sludge Bomb
move 4: Rest / Synthesis
item: Leftovers
ability: Natural Cure
nature: Calm
evs: 252 HP / 120 Def / 136 SpD

[SET COMMENTS]
  • Spikes is awesome
  • Giga Drain as STAB and heals back a part of the damage dealt
  • Sludge Bomb is secondary STAB, also having a slight chance of poisoning the foe
  • Rest works good with Natural Cure
  • Leftovers is main item, healing back health every turn

[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]
  • HP EVs for max HP
  • Defense EVs make sure Roserade survives two unboosted STABS of Jolly Heracross and two Psyshocks of Mew and Slowbro after SR
  • SpD EVs make sure she survives two Ice Beams of Milotic
  • Stun Spore can be used over any attacking move
  • Hidden Power Fire is an option over Sludge Bomb for Steel-type Pokemon, but is weak even with investment
  • Hidden Power Ice doesn't even deserve a mention anymore imo, just works against Nidoking/Queen nowadays.
  • Synthesis can be used over Rest so you won't have to switch out to cure the sleep, but with sandstorm it isn't wise

[SET]
name: Offensive
move 1: Leaf Storm
move 2: Sludge Bomb
move 3: Sleep Powder
move 4: Rest / Synthesis / Hidden Power Fire
item: Life Orb
ability: Natural Cure
nature: Timid / Modest
evs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
  • Leaf Storm is very powerful with a Life Orb attached
  • The same goes for Sludge Bomb
  • Two above get STAB too
  • Sleep Powder helps against special walls such as Porygon-2 and Snorlax
  • Rest, again, is useful with Natural Cure
  • Hidden Power Fire is an option over Rest for better coverage and gives something against Poison- and Steel-type Pokemon

[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]
  • EVs and nature give max speed and Special Attack
  • Giga Drain over Leaf Storm is an option, but is much weaker
  • Giga Drain does help with the Life Orb damage stacking up

[SET]
name: Toxic Spikes
move 1: Toxic Spikes
move 2: Sleep Powder
move 3: Leaf Storm / Giga Drain
move 4: Sludge Bomb
item: Leftovers / Focus Sash
ability: Natural Cure
nature: Timid
evs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
  • Toxic Spikes is awesome with Sleep Powder
  • Sleep Powder helps with getting free turns
  • Sleep Powder forces switches
  • Powerful STAB attacks in Leaf Storm and Sludge Bomb
  • Giga Drain can be used over Leaf Storm for longevity
  • Leftovers is main item to possibly feign a defensive set and for longevity
  • Focus Sash guarantees an extra set-up turn for laying down Toxic Spikes
  • Natural Cure is awesome for absorbing status

[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]
  • Timid to max out Speed
  • EVs for same reason, max out Speed and SpA
  • The same EVs and nature as the Spikes set can be used as well, but Toxic Spikes only requires too layers
  • Black Sludge is an option over Leftovers to annoy Trickers (Should be standard imo. sure it gives a weapon to Trickers, but they will more likely either switch out, or Trick it back. At least one free turn in both cases. )
  • Hidden Power Fire is an option, but should't be used because it's weak even with investment and most Steel-type Pokemon are too bulky anyway
  • Synthesis for direct healing, but is dangerous in a metagame with Sandstorm
  • Life Orb is optional, but should be used on offensive sets. It does put the opponent on the wrong foot thinking it's a full offensive set without (Toxic) Spikes

[OTHER OPTIONS]
  • SubSeed set
  • Cleric set with Aromatherapy
  • Extrasensory on offensive set

[CHECKS AND COUNTERS]
  • Most physically strong Pokemon can threaten to 1- or 2HKO Roserade
  • Strong Special-based Ice-type Pokemon with investment can OHKO
  • Fire-types such as Chandelure, Victini, Houndoom, Darmanitan, and Arcanine can OHKO
  • Togekiss can take Grass-type STAB attacks and OHKO with Air Slash
  • Psychic-type Pokemon such as Mew, Azelf, and Bronzong can OHKO
  • Poison-types resist both STABs and absorb Toxic Spikes
  • Taunters can stop Roserade from using status-inducing moves and (Toxic) Spikes
  • Steel-type Pokemon resist both STABs and are immune to Toxic Spikes
  • Porygon-2 and Snorlax can counter with high special bulk and strong attacks, they have to be wary of Sleep Powder if they don't have Sleep Talk though

[DREAM WORLD]
  • Technician is nearly useless for Roserade, don't use it
  • Magical Leaf (yaay)
  • Hidden Power
  • Round and Swift
  • Useless on Roserade
 
yeah, correct the above.

why are you claiming black sludge is good for recovery and then claiming leftovers is best on the spiker set? fix up the wording.

the counters section needs work. mention sp.def xatu as a counter to the spiker, and registeel / snorlax as a general counter to all sets.
 
Tspikes set should be last, it is the least common and least effective set Roserade has.

I think Synthesis should replace Rest on the offensive set. It allows Roserade to recover and still be threatening the next turn, which can be vital if your opponent switches in something slower such as Escavalier or Chandelure. You don't have to worry about weather messing it up either.
 
I would prefer it if the EVs were explained on the Spiker. I know it's not entirely your fault since the existing analysis doesn't explain them, either. In any case, it seems to me that they were just taken from the DP analysis, which mentions stuff like Scizor. Obviously, that's not relevant. "Nature bonus point" is a pretty terrible argument considering it works equally for any SpD EV amount that is a multiple of 40 away from 136. The "maximize bulk" from the existing analysis is very vague, too, especially since minimizing "overall harm" would require dumping everything into HP and Def.

Luckily, there just happens to be a couple of good reasons for the EV spread. With damage from Stealth Rock and a turn of Leftovers recovery, Roserade can potentially survive two hits from Close Combat from an unboosted Jolly Heracross, or Hydro Pump followed by Ice Beam from offensive Milotic. Of course, both are pretty situational considering Roserade has to be nearly 100% to pull either of them off (and then Heracross has to be heavily damaged to be finished off by a Sludge Bomb), but it's a better explanation than, well, nothing.
 
Tspikes is poop. Roserade is so common that they're useless anyway. I think you should get rid of it and give it a mention in the offensive set, since they're fairly similar. Also I'm against Black Sludge, because if you get Tricked, then you're crippled with a Choice item, then your opponent can simply Trick the Black Sludge onto something else = 2 crippled Pokemon. Also you really need to explain the EVs better on the Spikes set, especially what the defensive EVs are doing there, since Roserade is more specially defensive.

The order should go Offensive > Spikes imo, because Offensive is very dangerous
 
First, I disagree with Black Sludge being made standard, as giving trickers an annoying weapon to throw at one of your other Pokemon is annoying.

The Toxic Spike set should probably get a bulky EV spread mentioned in AC as well, since the exact same move set can work very well as a tank-- just so that the readers know most Roserade movesets can effectively work with any spread between full on speedy/offensive, to full on tank. Speedy + Bulk can also probably work.

In Checks/Counters, don't just say stuff can OHKO-- especially for the special attackers, unless they're using Psyshock, they won't be pulling OHKO's on too many Roserade. Actually the huge difference in Rose's special and physical bulk should be mentioned-- Roserade will fall to most strong neutral physical attacks (fuck, the thing is 1-2 HKO'd by Flygon's Earthquake, pretty sad), but it takes some pretty powerful (and usually super effective) special attacks to break through it on the special side.

edit: Like Moo, I wonder what the Def EVs achieve, since Rose will still likely be destroyed by most unresisted physical attacks, and Roserade doesn't resist too many common physical attacks in UU.
 
guys, the def ev's are there to avoid being ko'd by dugtrio cb earthquake. it was more relevant last gen than this gen. you can forego those def ev's now and shift them to sp.def / speed / sp.att depending on what you want to do.

i disagree with moving the toxic spikes set to oo. while it might be outclassed because of the absorbers in the tier, it should still be mentioned because it is a VIABLE set and has use on stall teams. i use tspikes roserade, and while you might not be able to set them every game, it does definitely have utility
 
I agree with ToF about the tspikes issue.

Coincidentally, the defense EVs also allow Roserade to always survive a Slowbro Psyshock after SR. This also allows it to take uninvested Mew and Xatu Psyshocks and helps it potentially take resisted physical attacks if you need to. As far as I can tell the extra spdef is overkill and not really needed.

Alexwolf, we're doing revamps because a lot of the analyses are outdated.

EDIT: QC APPROVED 1/3
 
Snunch said:
I agree with ToF about the tspikes issue.

Coincidentally, the defense EVs also allow Roserade to always survive a Slowbro Psyshock after SR. This also allows it to take uninvested Mew and Xatu Psyshocks and helps it potentially take resisted physical attacks if you need to. As far as I can tell the extra spdef is overkill and not really needed.

Alexwolf, we're doing revamps because a lot of the analyses are outdated.

EDIT: QC APPROVED 1/3
Click to expand...
Ah ok. I didn't see the revamp or update mark in the title that's why i asked...
 
capefeather said:
Luckily, there just happens to be a couple of good reasons for the EV spread. With damage from Stealth Rock and a turn of Leftovers recovery, Roserade can potentially survive two hits from Close Combat from an unboosted Jolly Heracross, or Hydro Pump followed by Ice Beam from offensive Milotic. Of course, both are pretty situational considering Roserade has to be nearly 100% to pull either of them off (and then Heracross has to be heavily damaged to be finished off by a Sludge Bomb), but it's a better explanation than, well, nothing.
Click to expand...

For Heracross it wouldn't be a problem since Close Combat lowers both defenses and since Heracross will be using it twice in this case I think a Sludge Bomb should be able to finish off a Heracross at -2 Special Defense.
 
Sorry for the delay, but will try writing this up by the end of the week, have been working and going to school around the clock :o...
 
Mew, not that we're in much of a rush, but Rose is one of the most important UU poke. I wish you luck with your school and work, but please keep that in mind.
 
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