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General Fighting Game Discussion

But ain't most 2D Fighters like that....?


I can see where you are coming from, but i honestly dont feel at home on KOF13 even though i play GG for years, and BB since the start of last year. Maybe i just have to LEARN how to play KOF13 and i will start finding the similar stuff? we will see about that.
 
Not really, SF, typically, was more importantly about positioning. Some characters prefer a mix up off of a knockdown, but the more zoning inclined characters more often, set up for optimal positioning opposed to taking mix ups in more "traditional" games. Even in older VS. series games, the run away / keep you out type of characters would rather set up positioning when they had the chance then to set up for mix ups/oki/etc.
 
andysensei said:
Not really, SF, typically, was more importantly about positioning. Some characters prefer a mix up off of a knockdown, but the more zoning inclined characters more often, set up for optimal positioning opposed to taking mix ups in more "traditional" games. Even in older VS. series games, the run away / keep you out type of characters would rather set up positioning when they had the chance then to set up for mix ups/oki/etc.
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Well, i barely play SF so i dont think i have a valid opinion on this, so i will just take your word on it.



Either way, KOF13 is fun. Kyo\Shen\Kula FTW. specially Shen.
 
Some very good, basic, universal anti-Phoenix tech got put out by some player in Japan on a stream, and Fubarduck explained it in this vid. Anyone playing MvC should keep this in mind!

Basically for anyone not wanting to watch, since most Phoenix players will be mashing side TAC in the air to prevent meter loss, you do a up or down exchange instead, X-factor cancel right after before they start flying in that direction, and then side exchange. Apparently, they can't do another counter for 15 frames, so they are gonna get hit by it unless they read the whole situation from the beginning.
 
Lucalibur said:
Well, i barely play SF so i dont think i have a valid opinion on this, so i will just take your word on it.



Either way, KOF13 is fun. Kyo\Shen\Kula FTW. specially Shen.
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Yeah, I'm running the Kyo/Kula/X show, too. I run Kula on anchor because she's currently the only character I feel truly competent with. But, I'd prefer to run her second, once I decide on a solid anchor.

I've had success, though, running Kensou/Kula/Kyo.. Kyo is a threat with and without meter, so if Kula can afford to do high damage meter dump in the second spot, with out screwing over Kyo in the back spot.

Only problem is I feel some type of way about running team K/K/K @_@
 
andysensei said:
Yeah, I'm running the Kyo/Kula/X show, too. I run Kula on anchor because she's currently the only character I feel truly competent with. But, I'd prefer to run her second, once I decide on a solid anchor.

I've had success, though, running Kensou/Kula/Kyo.. Kyo is a threat with and without meter, so if Kula can afford to do high damage meter dump in the second spot, with out screwing over Kyo in the back spot.

Only problem is I feel some type of way about running team K/K/K @_@
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I am still a total noob at KOF13 though XD


trying to get better, but yeah.
 
Xaqwais said:
Some very good, basic, universal anti-Phoenix tech got put out by some player in Japan on a stream, and Fubarduck explained it in this vid. Anyone playing MvC should keep this in mind!

Basically for anyone not wanting to watch, since most Phoenix players will be mashing side TAC in the air to prevent meter loss, you do a up or down exchange instead, X-factor cancel right after before they start flying in that direction, and then side exchange. Apparently, they can't do another counter for 15 frames, so they are gonna get hit by it unless they read the whole situation from the beginning.
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This seems like it will kill Phoenix for good? Like, she already has to work fairly hard against decent teams, and she already has to worry about strong characters like Hawkeye and Dormammu. Now she can work her way through all of that, only to have a 2/3s chance of failing anyway?

I wonder if she'll find a way to cope, but I'm just not really seeing it after that.
 
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The ULTIMATE heroes from the Marvel and Capcom universes collide again in
Ultimate Marvel vs. Capcom 3. Every epic character from the original blockbuster returns to the fray alongside 12 new fighters, 8 over-the-top new stages and enhanced gameplay.
Unleash your ULTIMATE.

Now I have been up for a good game and this is one I'd buy for a lot of money.

It's been around for a while now for Xbox and Playstation 3. If you can see the character roster the game brings us back old, but awesome characters like Captain America, Iron Man, and Wolverine, from Capcom we have Ryu, Akuma, Frank West, Vergil, and Phoenix Wright. Personally I wanna kick some ass with Deadpool(my favorite character) and Phoenix Wright. One down is that I can't see any of the Fantastic Four or Megaman in the roster. Luke Cage isn't there either. The gameplay looks fantastic.
 
Phoenix wright isn't the worst.

He's low, but he's not the worst.

Also I love how everyone says "this game takes no skill" but nobody can actually play it that well.

Fucking people man
 
Who is worse than Phoenix Wright? I don't really see it.

I guess Hsien-ko, Haggar, Tron, Shuma, Arthur and Thor are the main candidates (not saying these are all even bad characters, but it's certainly popular to suggest so), right? But I feel like they all have feasible niches they can fill, or can otherwise find ways to feel "cheap." Shuma is a character I'm totally unfamiliar with, but Arthur and Hsien-ko have clear (if not entirely solid) niches, and Haggar/Tron/Thor can at least do scary things once they find a hit.

Phoenix Wright is like... he's terrible, and you can play totally normally against him and keep him from ever being anything but terrible, because he's terrible. But then sometimes he scratches and claws his way up and becomes... briefly above average?

Maybe Missile assist will prove amazing or something?
 
Could've used more Norio Wakamoto (I hate the guy who does Bison's english voice). The more I watch the gameplay videos, the more I'm starting to hate the art-style.
 
UltiMario said:
Phoenix wright isn't the worst.

He's low, but he's not the worst.

Also I love how everyone says "this game takes no skill" but nobody can actually play it that well.

Fucking people man
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Well, I never said it took NO skill. I said anyone, even a child can compete. And it's true. The game is pretty brainless.

Also, I was wrong, Lei Lei MIGHT be slightly worse than P. Wright. Wright can at least get lucky enough to hit turnabout mode and land a 100% combo on one of your characters, meanwhile, Lei Lei is just garbo.
 
andysensei said:
Well, I never said it took NO skill. I said anyone, even a child can compete. And it's true. The game is pretty brainless.

Also, I was wrong, Lei Lei MIGHT be slightly worse than P. Wright. Wright can at least get lucky enough to hit turnabout mode and land a 100% combo on one of your characters, meanwhile, Lei Lei is just garbo.
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Hsien-ko can be a cheap "get off me" assist in a game where there aren't too many of those anymore, though. Yeah Phoenix Wright can eventually get to the point where he has high damage potential, but that's... not really a commodity in this game. It's like, he works really really hard, and then becomes... probably still worse than Dormammu?

And the game really isn't that brainless. Children compete in like, competitive Chess and shit. It's no big deal.

What MvC3 does is reduce the initial barrier to entry that exists in games like MvC2 and Guilty Gear. You can do relatively basic stuff and still have breathing room "do some things," like, for example, maybe learn how to actually play the game. There are still plenty of interesting decisions to make at a high level, and skill is still heavily rewarded, just like virtually any competitive game. The only high-level problem is that the game has a lot of variance-- arguably too much for a game that still runs best 2/3 in tournament.
 
What Viscant is describing is a pretty specific thing though. Yeah, in UMvC3 you can do some really repetitive shit and be successful with it. There are still plenty of elements of spacing and team-building and meter management and whatever else, though, that are super big deals and separate good players from bad players and great players from good players. So you can describe the game as "brainless" I guess, but that's really if you're only talking about strict moment-to-moment tactical decisions (which, yeah, are pretty weak in MvC3 compared to games where resets actually matter and you have to try different mixups and stuff).
 
What do we even mean by brainless vs. skill-testing or whatever? I hear Melee players say that Melee is the most skill-intensive fighter because it has the highest actions per minute and the smallest frame windows for certain inputs. But Smash inputs are mostly memorized routines like wavedashing, shuffling, drill-shining, etc.; the improvisational portions of Melee have very large windows due the floaty physics and extremely long hitstun. So some "modern fighting game" enthusiasts say that BlazBlue is more skill-intensive because it requires more complex improvisation instead of just rehearsed, rapid inputs.

Isn't the test really whether the better player can consistently win? Like, two people who score the same on general reflex and hand-eye coordination tests, both of whom have played Street Fighter IV for 100 hours and BlazBlue for 100 hours, sit down to try out MvC3, sight-unseen. One guy plays for 50 hours, and the other plays for 100 hours. Will the 100 hours guy have a clear advantage? Will he win every single time, or nearly every single time? If he does win consistently, then by definition the game is not brainless, right?

Or maybe you're saying that MvC3 is like Soul Calibur 3, where you can teach your girlfriend Xiang-Hua's 5 best moves an hour before the tournament and she can win a round or two?
 
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