NOC Medieval Mafia - Game Over: Majora's Maskians Win

@Jumpluff: Not deflecting to EP. I already said what I thought about SC/Ullar/EP before Aska turned the spotlight on me. The post I pointed out just affirms my position.

@Billmills: (These are all of the cuff from what I remember from reading back through D1 and D2)

Zorbees - Went after Quags and SC on D1 if I remember right. I feel much better about him now after the Quagsires flip, but I still get a wolf feeling from him. However, since it appears there is no wolf (only 1 kill per night), he looks clean right now.

Askaninjask - Also went after Quags and SC on D1 if I remember correctly. I don't blame him for calling me scummy (I've already admitted that Ditto looks pretty bad after reading back-through D1). I had beef with the way he was wording things; if he would have written his thoughts as clearly in posts #905 & #912 as he did in post #916, I wouldn't have had as big of problem with him. I still think he's town, but, as I said earlier, if we find out the mafia can recruit, he would become a top suspect. I just find it odd that someone who is seemingly trusted as village by most and was "cleaned" by the mafia's fake AC is still alive while 2 vanillagers are dead.

Jumpluff - Scummiest of the three you mentioned. Subbed in for a user who barely posted D1, so it's kind of hard to get a read. I have no idea why she feels the need to "reconcile" SC's behavior for Ullar and EP...that should be EP's job. Also, I don't agree with her idea that the mafia had no reason to kill Ullar. They should have killed Ullar/EP last night, and then they would have been able to kill the inspector tonight if he comes out today. As it stands now, Ullar/EP would be able to protect the inspector if he reveals himself today. This is all moot if they have a hooker, however. If EP flips mafia, then Jumpluff takes his place on the Axis (more on this later).

To answer your inspector question: Stay hidden if you have only cleaned 1 villager still in the game (unless that villager looks like they are going to be lynched). If you have found a mafian currently in the game, you should obviously claim. If you have cleaned 3 or more villagers, then you should also come out. If you have cleaned me you should definitely come out! :) If you've cleaned only 2 villagers still in the game, then it's kind of debatable if you should come out.

The mafia has to be somewhat close to finding the inspector, especially if the have some sort of role-checker, so I lean towards the inspector coming out. It would really hurt to lose all that information. As I said before, coming out today also gives EP a chance to protect you tonight if he isn't scum.

Right now, my trifecta/Axis of Evil consist of Engineer Pikachu, Brammi, and Jalmont/MrcRanger. They are my top three scum reads at this point in time. If EP flips mafia, then Jumpluff takes his place in the Axis.

The truth is, I've been as open as anyone with my thoughts on other players, because I have nothing to hide. If you have any other questions you want answered, please let me know.
 
j-squared said:
@Jumpluff: Not deflecting to EP. I already said what I thought about SC/Ullar/EP before Aska turned the spotlight on me. The post I pointed out just affirms my position.
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It is deflecting though, 'cause Staraptor defending Quagsires doesn't mean you didn't too.

snip (his read on me)
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I feel the need to 'reconcile' their behaviour so I can get a clear read on them that is consistent across all their identities because of the subbings. If I think one of them is possibly town and one of them is scum then I can't have much confidence in my read.

I said Yeti was an inferior kill, I am just presenting reasons that they may have not chosen to kill Ullar -- them having a hooker or planning to kill Ullar the next night. However I understand your reasoning wrt me and EP, even though some of it is clearly due to confusion with their subbings.

My read on them is murky quite clearly. I found Staraptor Call to be quite scummy, had trouble reading Ullar between noobtown and noobscum, and have asked Engi questions in the hope I can get some kind of read on him that makes sense with his predecessors.

As I said before, coming out today also gives EP a chance to protect you tonight if he isn't scum.
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If you're so sure he's scummy then why are you using him to coax the inspector to come out?
 
Because if I was inspector, and I knew Quagsires was probably lying from D1 (chances of having an AC and another AC/inspector are pretty small), the people I would have checked are EP and Ditto/myself, so they probably know if EP is lying or not.
 
Why?

Plenty of people posted to the effect that less obvious (and probably less active) users should be inspected because it gives more information. Inspecting someone you're almost positive is scum yields very little in this game when you're running on a timer and need to deal with a lot of people (and said users would have been likely to get lynched anyway, so inspecting Staraptor Call would've been a terrible idea).
 
So, is SC/Ullar/EP obvious scum or not? You seem to think he isn't in your posts last page, but now he is and would be a horrible inspection target.

It's the inspector's job to find scum, not just randomly target inactive people to clean them. Finding scum helps you find more likely scum to inspect. If you are 100% sure that the person is scum (like Quag's claiming AC if you are actually the inspector), then yes, I agree that it would be stupid to inspect them. However, being 100% sure someone is scum rarely ever happens in NOC mafia without an inspection result.
 
Your post above (#931) clearly suggests that Ditto and Staraptor Call appeared very scummy due to their association with the evident liar Quagsires from the inspector's POV, thus the inspector would have inspected them to confirm their scum status.

Except I am arguing that would be a bad idea. The inspector's job isn't to find scum, that is the village's job. The inspector's job is to gather useful information -- hopefully scum flying under the radar, not likely lynch targets -- and ensure it is passed on in some way before they die. Furthermore I am arguing that they likely would have seen this to be a bad idea, because many people were posting their opinions on what type of user should be inspected. Regardless, I cannot change whom the inspector hypothetically used their role on previously. But I don't like the reasoning evident in your explanation for what I called you out on (coaxing the inspector to claim).

Also, please don't twist my words. Staraptor Call was being lynched, and as I have shown from your reasoning, from the inspector's POV, Staraptor Call was quite scummy. That is what you said yourself. As for your interpretation of my read on Staraptor Call, that isn't the case. I made my position clear already, I think (#929): I think Staraptor Call was very suspicious, found Ullar hard to read, and want to see more from Engineer Pikachu to get a clearer read on all three. I agree my opinion on Staraptor Call seemed to oscillate a bit depending on which sub I was referring to, but I pointed out a number of suspicious things about Staraptor Call earlier in the thread and reiterated them here (as in D4).

Or perhaps if we follow your reasoning, we can take that Ullar lied and that is why the inspector is hiding?
 
Alright, I know this sounds like an awful request but: can someone please write up a short commentary on who people suspect and why? I'm sorry, but I've tried to go back through this entire thread and I can't understand a lick of it. As added motivation, it will make inactives like myself post more.
 
There's way too much to sum up, especially since different people have different suspicions. Such a request is kinda awkward because nobody can speak for everyone. But I'll do my best, I suppose... :x

Current hot topics are mostly influenced by Quagsires flipping as MM. I apologise if I omitted or misrepresented someone / anything, but this should at least give lazy people somewhere to start to understand the conversation.

  • It was widely felt that Ditto (who was latter subbed out for j-squared) acted rather scummily D1, and he's come to the forefront again because he defended Quagsires constantly D1 while sorta denying doing it, and was rather quick to believe his claim of alliance checker when most people voiced at least some doubt at the time. Other reasons that have been brought up against Ditto include his number posts at the beginning and unwillingness to present opinions. For those, I wrote a very long but comprehensive analysis of Ditto's posts when I subbed in, but you likely won't want to read all that (you can search through my posts if you do). The users who have recently voiced suspicions on Ditto and j-squared: myself, billymills, askaninjask, zorbees. Another post you might want to refer to for a summary of the Ditto situation is #905.
  • Staraptor Call / UllarWarlord / Engineer Pikachu, for similar reasons to Ditto. Basically, Staraptor Call kept implicitly defending Quagsires without committing to it, and as soon as he thought Quagsires could be saved, he switched votes. As such, there was a Staraptor Call roll during that D1 tie. Then Ullar slipped up and admitted he had a night role. Upon me prompting him, he said he was a backup bodyguard (odd nights only) and eventually backup something else, but the person hadn't died yet. But most of the suspicion falls, I believe, on Staraptor Call, and thus his later substitutes. The users who have recently voiced suspicions on Staraptor Call, UllarWarlord, and Engineer Pikachu: myself, billymills, j-squared. zorbees also pointed out some suspicions but had reservations.
  • Crux for trolling every time he posts. promised to post tonight. Same for MK Ultra, who instead of trolls, says nothing, even with votes piled on him.
  • Brammi was getting a bit of heat D1, but it kind of died down as he disappeared. It's flared up again though late D3 / D4, because Brammi was also seen to have defended Quagsires, and has since disappeared despite promising to post again. The users who have recently voiced suspicions on Brammi: j-squared, Blue_Tornado, zorbees. References on Brammi: #903, #906.
  • jalmont for much the same reason as Staraptor Call. His sub MrcRanger97 hasn't said anything just yet. The users who have recently voiced suspicions on jalmont and MrcRanger97: j-squared.
j-squared also brought up me, but I don't really want to talk about that for obvious partiality reasons, so I suggest you read up as he recently posted about it.

If you want more detail, ask, or click Search this Thread -> Advanced Search -> Search by User Name and look for their posts.

Also, anyone persuaded?

PS CAN YOU INACTIVE PEOPLE START CATCHING UP PLEASE. I don't mean to sound too angry, but I just suddenly imagined a last-day situation where the only villagers are uninformed because they didn't read, and ugh...
 
Wow, thanks jumpluff that's actually really fucking helpful.
@@Vote Crux@@ Pressure vote on Crux for now

If Crux gives the post that he said he wanted, I'll withdraw this vote and most likely switch over to j-squared, imply due to that he and his sub defended Quagsires, while the two of them have more posts it that we can use to analyze, since that would be very helpful.
 
I see.

Any reason j-squared over anyone else? Since you tried to reread the thread, any opinions of your own?

Wondering where Paperblade went as well, since he said he'd try to analyse what Quagsires' death brings to the table, but then uh I guess he was busy or forgot or something.
 
kingofkongs said:
Wow, thanks jumpluff that's actually really fucking helpful.
@@Vote Crux@@ Pressure vote on Crux for now

If Crux gives the post that he said he wanted, I'll withdraw this vote and most likely switch over to j-squared, imply due to that he and his sub defended Quagsires, while the two of them have more posts it that we can use to analyze, since that would be very helpful.
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Just going to start off by saying that this post seems extremely strange. Why would you put a vote on me, when there are already two, and I have posted saying that I will be making a post later on? Seems an awful lot like someone trying to start a bandwagon, as this vote is absolutely pointless, as pressure is clearly not going to do anything at all in this situation.

This next paragraph is probably just a rehashing of what other people have said but IDC. Ditto's behaviour on D1 was quite suspicious. In particular, the way he backed up pretty much everything that Quagsires said practically glued them together, and with Quags flipping scum, I think it is highly likely that j-squared will too. For the exact same reasons, I also feel that SCall is likely to flip Scum, probably more likely that Ditto for his night role stuff and the oddness of that.

Yes, I am a troll. I was trolling a bit in this post, but the accusation had actual suspicion behind it. I still feel that B_T's behaviour has been very odd, particularly his tendency to only talk when his name is mentioned. I think I will troll less now BTW
 
Unfortunately, some information was leaked that shouldn't have been. I ask everyone who has witnessed it to please disregard it. I apologize, but there is no easy way around it. Please carry on.
 
I only have one question right now, but unfortunately it's a little dated. Awhile ago you posted agreeing with me that Yeti was suspicious, except my post concluded overall that Yeti had behaved in a generally townie fashion. I requested clarification at the time, but you never answered me :(

References:
#708
#712
#714

Thus my question is now two three questions: What did you find suspicious about Yeti, and since she flipped town, did that cause a shift in your opinions? (Elaborate.)

ETA for clarification: I don't want you to argue why Yeti was scum, though I would like you to explain what bothered you about her. I just want you to elaborate on what you learned from Yeti's death, e.g. are other players more or less scummy as a result of that unexpected flip, or are the behaviours that led to you concluding she was scummy still scummy in other players?
 
@jumpluff
The reason I want ditto over Engineer pikachu is that I believe his claim more than I believe Quagsires', while it does seem like a dumb move to announce it, it wasn't a last ditch effort. Not saying that I think he's 100% though, since him not being killed after coming out is pretty fucking weird, but it could be possible that Mafia want us to lynch him like we did with Quagsires, only hes actually village this time.

I don't want Brammi lynched since we wouldn't get much info out of his death (not saying that no one should night target him), same for jalmont/mcranger

@Crux
Its a pressure vote fuckface, deal with it
 
Well, actually, Ullar's claim was out of desperation. Not to save himself from the lynch but because to admit otherwise would be confessing to being mafia.

I actually agree with Crux that your vote on him was odd, kok, because he had already committed to post. If you found his post unsatisfactory, you could've voted him then. However I am not sure that it really constitutes an attack on Crux so much as a misguided desire to demonstrate usefulness after your long inactivity.

The inactivity in this game is depressing, we are three days into this phase and have accomplished: nothing. I hope the hosts are continually prodding the inactive via PM because that's the only way out of this situation. I can compile a list for you guys, if you like! Please at the very minimum sub Leethoof and MK Ultra.
 
Sorry, I am alive. Thank you for that review post, Jumpluff, makes jumping back in much easier.

Staraptor Call (Engineer) and Ditto (J-Squared) very obvious defense of Quagsires earlier makes them my prime targets. Although both subs have done a good job of trying to pick up the pieces again, one thing that makes me suspicious is how j-squared seems to be avoiding reading on Engineer at all, despite a simple post prod (via voting for him). This also goes the other way around, with Engineer basically ignoring J-squared past that post prod.

If you have any questions of me, go ahead and ask!
 
In school right now, but I'll post super quick to say something about the current situation.

kok: Even if we don't get a lot of reads out of lynching someone, lynching a(potential) scum and getting it off right should always be good, right? Also, pressure voting someone who has a good amount of pressure votes on them seems a bit weird, eh?

That's about all I got... Except for the whole inactivity is lame thing and sub out some folks blah blah blah... My brain's dead right now.
 
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