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Counter that OU Pokemon! **DON'T REPEAT SETS!!!!**

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Anyway..... Back to countering that there cloyster.

Vaporeon_Swimming_by_IceandSnow.png

Vaporeon @ Leftovers
Water Absorb
Nature: Bold
252hp/252Def/4SpA
Scald
Roar
Wish
Protect


Can Take every single one of cloysters attacks. a +4 Icicle Spear will do at most 29.7%. Can roar them out and even scald can beat the cloyster 1 on 1.
 
Pikapwnd said:
Anyway..... Back to countering that there cloyster.

Vaporeon_Swimming_by_IceandSnow.png

Vaporeon @ Leftovers
Water Absorb
Nature: Bold
252hp/252Def/4SpA
Scald
Roar
Wish
Protect


Can Take every single one of cloysters attacks. a +4 Icicle Spear will do at most 29.7%. Can roar them out and even scald can beat the cloyster 1 on 1.
Click to expand...

Vaporeon is not a hard counter to this Cloyster, as it is 2HKO'd by +2 Rock Blast. Even though Vaporeon also 2HKOs Cloyster at -1 Sdef with Scald, it is slower and will be KO'd first. It will succeed at Roaring it out (baring lots of hazards and multiple crits), however that makes Vaporeon a Check, not a counter. Especially since Roar could easily bring out something that can finish the now weakened Vaporeon off.

Just a reminder to people, even though this was a bad counter you are still to counter this Vaporeon, and not Cloyster.
 
Since I don't want this thread going in the wrong direction I'm going to define what "counter" means in this thread. We are not assuming entry hazards, and the Pokemon in question exists in a vacuum and is using any one attack as the counter switches in. So no Storm Drain boosted Gastrodon. If we don't assume guidelines like this then this exercise becomes rather pointless. There is no reason to be so nit-picky. Also let's avoid U-turn, etc. since it's kind of cheating.

Edit: Actually on second thought you can assume either SR or one layer of Spikes, but that's it.
 
Shaymin @ Life Orb
Natural Cure
Timid
4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
-Seed Flare
-Hidden Power Ice
-Earth power
-Leech Seed

Shaymin has Natural Cure to avoid status and can threaten to OHKO back with Seed Flare. Leech Seed provides a wonderful way of healing off LO damage if used on the switch while Earth Power and Hidden Power Ice get excellent coverage together.

EDIT @ below tho I doubt anyone would read this but im not allowed to make a new post so

You don't need weather up tho in order to counter certain pokemon. Some Pokemon that need weather in order to counter a pokemon fail to counter outside of it. For example what happens if your using Hydra Rest Vaporeon to counter something and Rain is'nt up???
It over complicates the entire thing and id feel better if we follow what tobes said since it makes things very simple.
 
Tobes said:
Since I don't want this thread going in the wrong direction I'm going to define what "counter" means in this thread. We are not assuming entry hazards, and the Pokemon in question exists in a vacuum and is using any one attack as the counter switches in. So no Storm Drain boosted Gastrodon. If we don't assume guidelines like this then this exercise becomes rather pointless. There is no reason to be so nit-picky. Also let's avoid U-turn, etc. since it's kind of cheating.

Edit: Actually on second thought you can assume either SR or one layer of Spikes, but that's it.
Click to expand...

Agreed, I'll be adding a section with a definition of a counter into the OP now to eliminate any confusion on the issue. However, I do have an issue with regards to weather, as this makes and breaks some counters. As such, when making a counter I'll allow people to assume a weather is effect that allows their counter to function, but only if that counter is used exclusively with that weather (IE Hydra-rest Vaporeon in rain, not Ferrothorn in it). I'll get to it right away.

EDIT: Section added, hopefully this will nip any further confusion in the bud... assuming people actually read it of course.
 
Ferrothorn@ Leftovers
Iron Barbs
Sassy
252 hp/252 SpDef/4 def
-Spikes
-Leech Seed
-Gyro Ball
-Bulldoze

Takes just about anything from shaymin, sets up in its face, gyro balls. Bulldoze because i don't want to see a magnezone as a counter.I assume a layer of SR so that ferro doesn't have to set it up.Also I counter jimera with TL;DR.
 
Breloom @ Toxic Orb
Poison Heal
Adamant
252 Atk / 252 Spe / 4 Def
-Spore
-Bulk Up
-Drain Punch
-Seed Bomb

Can easily switch in on any of Ferro's moves, proceed to spore, boost up, and destroy with Drain Punch.
 
Pwnemon said:
Breloom @ Toxic Orb
Poison Heal
Adamant
252 Atk / 252 Spe / 4 Def
-Spore
-Bulk Up
-Drain Punch
-Seed Bomb

Can easily switch in on any of Ferro's moves, proceed to spore, boost up, and destroy with Drain Punch.
Click to expand...

Xatu @ light clay
Nature: bold
Ability: magic bounce
248 hp/252 def/8 spd
-reflect
-light screen
-psychic
-roost

Can switch into literally anything breloom does and if you're lucky enough to switch in on spore before the toxic orb kicks in, then you can put him to sleep. Xatu can set up screens for its allies and take on breloom before it can ever get out of hand. Being 4x resistant to drain punch and 2x resistant to seed bomb helps a ton. Sadly, the screens don't matter for this thread once xatu's counter switches in...but hey! It counters breloom at least!
 
Scrafty@Lum Berry
Nature: Jolly
Ability: Moxie
252 Atk/4 SpD/252 Spe
-Dragon Dance
-Hi Jump Kick
-Crunch
-Ice Punch

Xatu can't touch this thing while it sets up and then KO's with Crunch. And if Xatu starts Reflecting, Scrafty can just stall it out with Dragon Dance after Dragon Dance. Try stopping this guy at +6 with 115/115 defenses.
 
Conkeldurr @ Choice Band
Trait: Guts
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Spe
Adamant nature
- Mach Punch
- Drain Punch
- Stone Edge
- Payback

Scrafty can do anything to Conkeldurr unboosted (it only does 83% - 98% with a +2 HJK) while Conkeldurr easily OHKOs with Mach Punch

edit: didn't see that other conk, sorry! :o
 
BTzz said:
Conkeldurr @ Choice Band
Trait: Guts
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Spe
Adamant nature
- Mach Punch
- Drain Punch
- Stone Edge
- Payback
Click to expand...

Gliscor @ Toxic Orb
Trait: Poison Heal
EVs: 252 HP / 184 Def / 72 Spe
- Earthquake
- Toxic
- Protect
- Taunt

Gliscor takes at most 40% from Conkeldurr's Stone Edge, and can wear him down with Earthquake while stalling with Protect. Don't Toxic him though, that's a bad idea.
 
skidilidy said:
Gliscor @ Toxic Orb
Trait: Poison Heal
EVs: 252 HP / 184 Def / 72 Spe
- Earthquake
- Toxic
- Protect
- Taunt
Click to expand...

Landorus (M) @ Expert Belt
Trait: Sand Force
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SAtk / 252 Spd
Naive Nature (+Spd, -SDef)
- U-turn
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge
- Hidden Power [Ice]


Pretty self explanatory, U-Turn/Stone Edge on the protect to fake Scarf, and then HP Ice to KO.
 
One needn't look far to see that SLOWBRO is an exceptional Landorus counter:

SLOWBRO @ leftovers
Bold
Regenerator
252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
-Slack Off
-Toxic
-Scald
-Ice Beam

The hofucker himself, SLOWBRO comes in on any of landorus's moves taking about 40% and proceeds to Slack Off to get to a decent HP%, then OHKO with Ice Beam

Yay, finally got to use my favorite
 
@Slowbro

Jynx @ Leftovers
Trait: Dry Skin
EVs: 8 HP / 248 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid nature
- Lovely Kiss
- Ice Beam
- Nasty Plot
- Sub

Jynx outspeeds Slowbro so she can sub up to block Toxic, is immune to Scald thanks to Dry Skin, resist Ice Beam, and can put Slowbro to sleep to prevent Slacking Off while Jynx gets to +4-6 to KO
 
BTzz said:
@Slowbro

Jynx @ Leftovers
Trait: Dry Skin
EVs: 8 HP / 248 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid nature
- Lovely Kiss
- Ice Beam
- Nasty Plot
- Sub

Jynx outspeeds Slowbro so she can sub up to block Toxic, is immune to Scald thanks to Dry Skin, resist Ice Beam, and can put Slowbro to sleep to prevent Slacking Off while Jynx gets to +4-6 to KO
Click to expand...

This is not a counter because it cannot come in on ANY of Slowbro's moves; if it comes in on toxic, it's doomed. It is however a pretty good check.
 
i will still continue on with a jynx counter.

heatran@leftovers
calm 252hp 4def 252sp.def
-roar
-rest
-sleep talk
-lava plume

can come in on ANYTHING jynx throws at it and can even come in on a lovely kiss and sleep talk. good special wall with recovery.
 
Hello, everyone. There has been a distressing lack of quality within some of the counters in this thread. Quite frankly, I expect better of DST; this forum is packed with excellent resources and battlers who are willing to offer advice, and yet the amount of reasoning and effort put into this topic by participants seems to be low. Please read through the entire set of rules, as Jimer0 has requested.

For those of you who need a bit more clarity, here it is:

Jimera0 said:
- Explain your counter! Write a little bit describing how your Pokemon counters the previous one, and how it's useful beyond countering it.
- Make sure your counter is solid before posting! Either actually playtest it or make sure your theorymonning is 100% solid before posting. It must meet the criteria listed above to count! Calculations might be required to ensure your counter is solid. A good damage calculator can be found here.
Click to expand...

There have been many posts that "call out" bad sets. This happens for a reason: posters are not fully testing their counter! Please use a damage calculator and other resources to make sure you're sound in your logic and can defend your reasoning. If you ever need further help determining if your counter is solid, try contacting a badge member on DST or join the community on #pokemon in synIRC. Also, explain your counter. One sentence is not going to cut it; you need to describe in full why your suggested counter beats the above Pokemon.

Jimer0 has been an champ for maintaining this thread and providing some great guidelines and rules. "Counter That OU Pokemon!" is meant to by primarily for discussion and research purposes, so please be thorough. I am sure the other moderators would agree with me in saying that we'd rather not hand out infractions for posts with a lack of content. Please be thorough and accurate, for everyone's benefit. Thank you!
 
This is not a counter because it cannot come in on ANY of Slowbro's moves
Click to expand...

Incorrect. Jynx switchs into Slowbro safely on 3/4 of its moveset resisting Ice Beam, Immune to Scald, and Slack Off does'nt matter to it when its switching in. Considering that a +6 Ice Beam does 86.04% - 101.27% to Slowbro (assuming I calced it correctly) then Slowbro cannot really stall with Slack Off either. Considering that Slowbros doing like, nothing, and that Jynx can lovely kiss, id call it a counter even if it switchs into Toxic.

Anyway

heatran@leftovers
calm 252hp 4def 252sp.def
-roar
-rest
-sleep talk
-lava plume
Click to expand...

Terrakion @ Lum Berry (just in case someone gets smart to me and says Lava Plume will have a 100% burn rate when im switching it in -_-)

-Swords Dance
-Close Combat
-Stone Edge
-Earthquake

Terrakion can handle Rest Talk Heatran damn near perfectly. It resists Heatrans only attacking move, and can threaten Heatran back with a supereffective Close Combat or Earthquake. It can also attempt to set up a Swords Dance however thats slightly risky since it could be phased out without landing an attack. Lum Berry is there to guard against an untimely burn which, although unlikely, does happen on occasion when you least wish for it to happen
 
one of the hardest pokemon to counter: terrakion.

i thought about gliscor, quagsire, and lol claydol, but the best seems to be... hippowdon

hippowdon@leftovers
trait:sand stream
252hp 252def 4atk
impish
-earthquake
-slack off
-ice fang
-fire fang

why it counters: unboosted jolly close combat never 2hkoes hippowdon, meaning hippowdon can switch into terrakion with impunity and either recover health or kill with earthquake. if terrakion used swords dance on the switch, hippowdon can live the +2 close combat and kill terrakion with earthquake.

why this set? the EVs are for maximum physical bulk. the moves eq and slack off are staples, and ice fang and fire fang to encourage creative counters.
 
Weezing@Black Sludge
Trait: Levitate
Nature: Impish
252 HP, 252 Def, 4 SpA
-Toxic
-Thunderbolt
-Flamethrower
-Pain Split

Earthquake obviously does nothing, while Ice/Fire Fang max at 12%. Toxic means that eventually Hippowdon will fall even with Slack off and getting a lucky freeze with Ice Fang. Flamethrower should be used to speed up the kill, dealing 19-22%. The only way Hippowdon can win is if it freezes with Ice Fang as Weezing switches in and Weezing proceeds to remain frozen for the whole time as it very slowly falls.
Thunderbolt and Pain Split are there to deter a few potential counters, either with SE coverage or the threat of removing a large chunk of health while healing itself.

I believe Weezing fulfills all of the criteria except possibly for OU viability. It is good at tanking hits and is useful to absorb Fighting attacks, but damage output leaves alot to be desired. It is pretty useful against Scizor though.

I could have gone with something much more conventional (Rotom-W would counter this even better and is undoubtedly better suited to OU) but decided to introduce a bit of variety.
 
Nidoqueen couldn't care less.
Nidoqueen @ Leftovers
Ability: Sheer Force (Hell, why not)
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
- Toxic Spikes
- Earth Power
- Fire Blast
- Dragon Tail

This Nidoqueen quite obviously does not mind Toxic and Thunderbolt, while Flamethrower does a pittance (17,7-21,1%, so a 7HKO at best). Meanwhile, Nidoqueen can set up Tspikes, and strike back with a more powerful Fire Blast (40% max, so 3HKO). She can counter terrakion pretty well, and take on other physical fighting types with a powerful Earth Power, or set up Tspikes on them, and continue to phaze the opponents into oblivion. Works best when paired with something to take water and ice attacks, such as Slowking (phys/spec synergy as well)
 
The above 2 Pokemon are kinda dumb for many reasons IMO:

First off Nidoqueen lacks a nature, but my counter will go over that.
Second technically, nothing can switch into Dragon Tail, as it just forces another switch, which in the RU CTP thread roar and such were disallowed.
Third Weezing is Impish(+Def -SpA) yet has all special attacks?

W/E here is something that shuts down Nidoqueen(even if it wants to multi Dragon Tail):

Miltank @ Leftovers
Ability: Thick Fat
Nature: Careful(+SpD -SpA)
EVs: 252 HP /4 Def/252 SpD

~Heal Bell
~Stealth Rock
~Milk Drink
~Seismic Toss

Miltank actually serves as a pretty good special wall similar to Blissey and Chansey, while also being a little bit faster and defensively sound(its not gonna be taking Close Combats but still not too bad).

So it shuts down the above Nidoqueen regardless of nature as the below calcs will show:

Nidoqueen(+SpA) Earth Power: 17.5-20.8%
Nidoqueen(+SpA) Fire Blast: 7.9-9.4%
Nidoqueen(+Att) Dragon Tail: 9.9-11.7%

With Heal Bell/Milk Drink Toxic doesn't matter, Earth Power is a 7HKO(Max damage rolls) if Miltank doesn't Milk Drink for whatever reason.

Now for some things in OU that Miltank can take without dying(Assuming full health and no hazzards):

Modest Latios Choice Specs Draco Meteor: 86.0-101.5%(12% Chance to OHKO)
Modest Latios Choice Specs Draco Meteor -2 SpA: 42.9-51.0%*
Modest Latios Choice Specs Psyshock: 49.5%-58.1%
Modest Latios Choice Specs Psychic: 55.6-65.5%
Modest Reuniclus Life Orb Focus Blast: 83.2%-98.0%
Modest Reuniclus Life Orb Psychic: 46.7-55.1%
Modest Reuniclus Life Orb Psyshock: 41.9-49.5%
Modest Rotom-W Choice Scarf Hydro Pump: 42.6-50.3%
Modest Rotom-W Choice Scarf Volt Switch: 25.1-29.7%
Modest Heatran Choice Spec Earth Power: 37.1-43.7%
Modest Volcarona +1 Fiery Dance:25.4-29.9%
Modest Volcarona +1 Bug Buzz: 57.1-67.3%

Adamant Choice Band Scizor Bullet Punch: 39.1-46.4%
Adamant Choice Band Scizor Bug Bite: 58.6-69.3%
Adamant Choice Band Scizor U-Turn: 45.7-54.1%
Adamant Choice Band Metagorss Meteor Mash: 67.0-79.2%
Adamant Choice Band Haxorus Outrage: 86.0-101.3%(13% chance to OHKO)
Adamant Choice Band Tyranitar Stone Edge: 66.5-78.7%

So as you can see Miltank can tank the majority of non SE special attacks as well as majority of non SE physical attack in OU and sit there and wall them to hell and back. I think the biggest example of this is Rotom-W + Scizor U-Turn doesn't even come close to OHKOing. Obviously stuff like the Focus Blast on Reuniclus is just to show that it isn't OHKO'd.

*-2 Draco Meteor assuming 99% on the first hit has a 1% chance to 2HKO with no rocks and Milk Drink used after the first one.

EDIT: Decided to add some Physical presence calcs.
 
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SDeavile: @Life orb
Jolly Nature: 252 Attack, 216 Speed, 40 HP

Swords Dance
Low Kick
Ice Shard
Night Slash

While not nearly as powerful as in Gen 4, SDeavile still does what it needs to and perfectly counters Miltank. Since Miltank is running SR, it's fair to assume no SR is currently present, and this Weavile can come in on a single layer of spikes and a Seismic Toss, boost it's attack to +2 on a second Toss and outspeed and OHKO with Low Kick, dealing a minimum of 103.6%. If Miltank uses any other move, Weavile will be able to live and boost to +4 making it much more deadly, or conserve it's HP depending on what the opponent has left, though having trash defenses and defensive typing with a priority ice Shard, going for +4 is usually reccomended.

Ice Shard gives STAB pirority while Night Slash gives mild damage, high crit chance STAB and provides almost perfect coverage alongside Low Kick that deals with Steel and Rock types that threaten Weavile and take paltry damage from it's STAB moves.
 
Spr_5b_232_m.png


Donphan (M) @ Leftovers
Trait: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP / 236 Atk / 20 Def
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Stealth Rock
- Rapid Spin
- Earthquake
- Fire Fang

This Donphan literally takes everything that Weavile has, ironically being a ground type. After a boost, ice shard does a pathetic 58.59%-68.75%, and earthquake always 1HKOs. The idea of this Donphan is more of a tank than a physical wall. It can even act as a great check thanks to sturdy. The spread for this Donphan allows Donphan to 2HKO Forretress and Ferrothorn, which are great to kill them off and then spin there stuff away, the rest goes to defense to take hits. It is also a great spinner and stealth rock user that packs a punch. Without ice shard it does lose out to Dragonite and Landorus of course, but if using this that base should be covered by something else.
 
So Weaville can't stop miltank from either laying rocks or removing status from her teammates? I mean yea you win 1 on 1 but still don't prevent miltank from completing its job(whether it be rocks or team cleric).
 
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