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The Everything NFL Thread: 2011-2012 Season (plus free agency I guess)
- Thread starter WaterBomb
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Jamarcus Russell's scouting report shows a QB who could pick apart defenses. Look how that turned out.
Scouts also thought Ryan Leaf was as good as Peyton. Theres a high chance RGlll is a bust. And it sucks that he has to get sacked 12+ times in his rookie season against the Giants.
"He expressess his opinion! And it disagrees with mine! Pwease, someone ban him!" Yeah, that's some logic there buddy.
What do you mean? I only bring up Eli when this thread gets too gloomy. Plus it's the offseason... We should be hyping teams left and right, right? Yeah, the Eagles are going to the playoffs next season. You guys all saw how they won all of their four last games??
Are you drunk while typing this? What's a "receoverto" and "evwlrn"?
I was comparing RG3 to Tebow, not Russell or Ryan Leaf or Manning. Calm your shit. And nobody wants to hear your opinion when all it is is fanboyism.
Oh and Tebow actually did a great job as a passer in college. But scouts knew that he wouldn't be able to fit in an NFL system.
Also you're comparing a scouting result to what happens in the NFL. Clearly not an accurate measurement (Russell, Leaf). How do we know that RG3 isn't the same as Tim Tebow? There are always busts in a draft (players that aren't ready for the NFL).
I just think the one thing he doesn't have that is really crucial to the type of game he plays is that he is no where near as well built as Cam (or tebow for that matter) is. I see RGIII being alot like vick. He will get hurt easily and be out for a while. In fact, we might not see him complete a season more than 1-3 times in his career simply because hes fragile compared to Cam. That would be my one concern.
He's not going to run as much as Cam/Vick. Think of him like Aaron Rodgers or Steve Young. He's only going to run if he has to or if you give him a lane to the first down marker. Of course he had a good chunk of rushing yards in college because he was going up against college defenses where he could carve them up. In the NFL he probably isn't going to run as much because the defenses will be better. People need to stop comparing him to Vick just because he's black and he's fast. His play style is nothing like Vick. Why aren't people comparing Luck to Cam/Vick? He had the same 40 time as Cam.
It's just funny that people ask these retarded questions of RGIII (Is he going to be the next Tebow, is he at 6'3 225 or so going to miss as many games as Mike Vick) when NOBODY asks real, substantive questions about the 2 year anointed golden boy Andrew Luck.
An "elite QB prospect" whose team ran the ball 55% of the time, and who constantly audibled from pass to run...behind the best OL in college football...throwing to TEs and WRs who will at least get on an NFL roster (including 1 first rounder)...supported by one of the most dominant rushing offenses in CFB...playing in an incredibly conservative offense that protects the QB to such a degree that it made *Alex Smith* look above-average...who consistently fails to win big games...who struggles when the defense pressures him...this is the guy we are absolutely not supposed to question as a stone cold lock as a stud QB?
If you took Andrew Luck off that team, how many games would they win? I have a sneaking suspicion they would win "nearly as many". Take RGIII off Baylor and they might not have won a game.
And I'm not saying Luck isn't a good or even great QB prospect - he's definitely smart, he's definitely got great tools, he's a very finished product. But to me, he looks more like a mobile Matt Ryan than Peyton Manning or Aaron Rodgers. He's worth a #1 pick in the draft...but is he worth "Greatest prospect since Elway!!!"?
Why aren't those questions asked? Because ESPN hyped the guy up since his freshman year, and never actually watched him play. They see him call simple audibles at the line and think he's the next Peyton. He played worse defenses than RGIII yet people think RGIII's the one who padded his stats against softies. Because he looks like a pro QB already, and perception is reality in a big way.
Could he be Peyton? Sure. Peyton had some of these questions (particularly the non-performance in big games) aspect, and he had a great supporting cast (though nowhere near as dominant as Stanfords). But assuming Luck is going to control the LOS like Peyton just because he audibled in college is just foolish.
Based on what? McCoy has a weak arm, is skittish in the pocket and checks down a lot. And he's statistically terrible.
Yeah, but considering that they were kind of mediocre when the Vikings had an elite OL and defense, it says a lot.
A lot of QBs can look serviceable with good talent around them. And even then it's not a given.
Yeah, let's just go out and build one of the top 5 NFL defenses ever to be fielded, with a HOF level RB and FB respectively, then we can win with Colt McCoy. Somehow, people have convinced themselves that you don't have to replace your shitty QB because you can draft defense 8 straight years and build a historically effective defense to carry said shitty QB to glory. And is it even a given McCoy can be as good as Dilfer or Johnson were?
An "elite QB prospect" whose team ran the ball 55% of the time, and who constantly audibled from pass to run...behind the best OL in college football...throwing to TEs and WRs who will at least get on an NFL roster (including 1 first rounder)...supported by one of the most dominant rushing offenses in CFB...playing in an incredibly conservative offense that protects the QB to such a degree that it made *Alex Smith* look above-average...who consistently fails to win big games...who struggles when the defense pressures him...this is the guy we are absolutely not supposed to question as a stone cold lock as a stud QB?
If you took Andrew Luck off that team, how many games would they win? I have a sneaking suspicion they would win "nearly as many". Take RGIII off Baylor and they might not have won a game.
And I'm not saying Luck isn't a good or even great QB prospect - he's definitely smart, he's definitely got great tools, he's a very finished product. But to me, he looks more like a mobile Matt Ryan than Peyton Manning or Aaron Rodgers. He's worth a #1 pick in the draft...but is he worth "Greatest prospect since Elway!!!"?
Why aren't those questions asked? Because ESPN hyped the guy up since his freshman year, and never actually watched him play. They see him call simple audibles at the line and think he's the next Peyton. He played worse defenses than RGIII yet people think RGIII's the one who padded his stats against softies. Because he looks like a pro QB already, and perception is reality in a big way.
Could he be Peyton? Sure. Peyton had some of these questions (particularly the non-performance in big games) aspect, and he had a great supporting cast (though nowhere near as dominant as Stanfords). But assuming Luck is going to control the LOS like Peyton just because he audibled in college is just foolish.
Based on what? McCoy has a weak arm, is skittish in the pocket and checks down a lot. And he's statistically terrible.
Yeah, but considering that they were kind of mediocre when the Vikings had an elite OL and defense, it says a lot.
A lot of QBs can look serviceable with good talent around them. And even then it's not a given.
Yeah, let's just go out and build one of the top 5 NFL defenses ever to be fielded, with a HOF level RB and FB respectively, then we can win with Colt McCoy. Somehow, people have convinced themselves that you don't have to replace your shitty QB because you can draft defense 8 straight years and build a historically effective defense to carry said shitty QB to glory. And is it even a given McCoy can be as good as Dilfer or Johnson were?
Well first of all, the Colts held a private workout for Luck but did not and do not plan on having one for RG3. So don't get your hopes up about the Colts selecting RG3.
And what is your proof that Luck is better than RG3? AR just made a long and pretty legitimate post explaining how he thinks RG3 is better than Luck, and you just nag in response by saying "No, screw your opinion. Luck is better and I have no way of proving it, but it's just true."
I'm pretty sure when the majority of NFL scouts just about everywhere tout Luck as the best overall prospect, I'm going to trust that mass amount of professional opinion (which is based on studies of mechanics, and alot of other things i don't understand) over a forum goer who can say 'lucks team was better than RGIII's!!! RGIII is better!!', with a lot of words.
Ever consider that maybe scouts have biases? That after being conditioned to think a certain way, it's difficult to accept new information that contradicts what they've "known" for a long time? They're human too. Scouts look at the wrong things, they fall in love with one aspect of a guy's game without looking at the whole picture, and they mess up based on that.
In this case, I believe it's that Luck "looks" like an NFL QB - he looks in complete control of the offense, he runs an NFL style system, he's very, very mechanically sound, and he doesn't have many major weaknesses. This leads them to overlook the idea that maybe, while he's a great QB, he's not the same kind of playmaker or has the kind of elite accuracy or poise under pressure RGIII has. And there are a few built in excuses, such as "spread offense" or "not as polished" that make it easy to default to Luck.
So let's not use "scouts generally prefer Luck" as an argument.
I think you're a bit too critical of scouts AR. Just because the Redskins have the worst scouts ever doesn't mean ALL scouts are bad! Most of the more successful franchises over the long term can attribute much of that success to good scouting (see: Green Bay, Pittsburgh, NY Giants, New England, Baltimore).
THIS GUY
anyways saints suspensions upheld (mainly the one on payton. i think goodell is considering letting up on a couple of the other guys)
now lets talk about how sean weatherspoon is a top 5 outside line backer
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