Choiced Items

Electrolyte

Electrolyte

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Now that BW2 is here, we have an influx of powerful new sweepers, plus new tutor moves that make old threats even stronger. To help defeat this sudden array of stronger threats, many less fortunate pokemon resort to getting their power from items- choiced items to be exact. Of course, hyper offensive pokemon also love to abuse choiced items, even if it means being stuck on one move. The power choice items give is really noticeable, so it is very common for teams to have one, or even two, different choice users.

Now what I'm asking is this- how effective would a team completely comprised of choice users be? Sure, the power boost is great, but the disadvantages of the lack of switching moves multiplies for every choice user you put in your team. How many choiced items are too much?

Questions to be answered:
•what are some good choice users?
•do choiced users have good synergy?
•how do choiced users fare against weather/hazards?
•how do choiced users overcome status?
•how have choiced users changed in the generation minishift?
•which pokemon are good counters to choiced users, and which choiced users can counter them?
•if six choiced users do not work well together, what is the maximum that will? How much is too much?
List of choice abusers (original list by Lord of Bays)
List of scarfers
Rotom W
Landorus I
Terrakion
Jirachi
Thundurus
Salamence
Tyranitar
Politoed
Ditto
Latios
Heracross
List of banders
Scizor
Haxorus
Conkeldurr
Mamoswine
Tyranitar
Breloom
Stoutland
Terrakion
List of specsers
Latios
Keldeo
Tornadus I and T
Jolteon

Strategies- (credit to Bribery+Danger Mouse)
~Weather- a must have for a choiced out team. Pokemon can abuse the boosts weather gives.
~Trick- helps defeat stall and set up sweepers. Also gives the team a bit less stress. Some notable Trickers are Latios, Rotom W, and Starmie.

Remember, we are not trying to make a new team here. This is not CCAT. We should merely discuss the effectiveness of these items in the new metagame.
 
As long as we need revenge killers and wall breakers, we'll have Choice users. Not to mention that rare breed of Choiced Pokemon that can sweep teams outright.

Effective Band users:
Scizor - Banded Bullet Punch is probably THE quintessential Choice item move. Add in U-turn and Superpower for scouting and coverage, and you have exactly why Scizor has been in the top three for usage stats so far for the entire 5th generation.
Haxorus - Tempted to list Dragonite because Multiscale and ExtremeSpeed, but base 147 Outrage breaks everything that isn't a Steel in half. The highest possible one-turn defense in the game, max defense Eviolite Onix, can be 2HKOd by Banded Outrage.
Mamoswine - Seems weird, especially since I'm leaving out Terrakion, but Mamoswine's magnificent, magnificent Ice STAB makes him an absolute wrecking force. He can hold an entire team of Dragons in check alone with Icicle Crash and Ice Shard.
Conkeldurr - A rather uncommon sight, as his Bulk Up set is infinitely more popular, I'm a big fan of using a Choice Band. Guts + Band = IT'S OVER 900!!! Attack and that means Superpower and Mach Punch straight-up murderize everyone.

Effective Scarf users:
Rotom-W - Trick, rain-boosted STAB Hydro Pump, 100% accurate Thunder in the rain, Trick, Will-O-Wisp, and some of the most understated bulk in the game means Rotom-W is always at the top of my shitlist, if nothing else. Couple that with his incredibly frustrating weakness (Grass Knot is the only really common Grass move in the metagame, and Rotom only takes 20 damage from it) and you have, in my opinion, the best Scarf Pokemon in the game.
Terrakion - I jump for joy every time a Terrakion isn't scarfed, because that means he can't revenge kill my +1 Salamence. I'm not saying that abusing his fantastic STABs with a Choice Band is bad, but I am saying that you should feel bad because he is infinitely more effective as a revenge killer and late-game cleaner.
Landorus-I - "They see me trollin', they hatin'..." Fucking 101 base speed, how does it work? I'm firmly of the opinion that Landorus-I is what made Sand so dangerous for so long. Literally perfect speed (he can revenge all the base 100 boosters and below, guaranteed, so long as Stone Miss doesn't, you know, miss), fantastic ability to abuse his meaty 125 base Attack; I've yet to use/really face Thundurus-T, but I feel like he'll be to Rain what Landorus-I was to Sand.
Salamence - The advent of Moxie has turned Dragonite's bad-tempered little brother into a bright new star. While Dragonite's Dragon Dance sets are still much more common than Salamence's, Salamence has taken to heart the role of a scarfed cleaner, capable of turning a minor revenge kill into a snowballing sweep that can only be stopped by a faster Scarfer or priority. Of course, two (three) of the scarfers I've mentioned do just that, as well as two of the banded Pokemon in my post. Still, have you ever faced Scarf Outrage Moxiemence after your Mamoswine was KOd? It's not a pretty sight.

Effective Specs users:
Keldeo - There's, what, three Pokemon that can stop Pony? And if you happen to be carrying the wrong check, you lose? If you thought that Rotom-W's Hydro Pump was bad, Keldeo's Special Attack is a full 50 points higher, and that adds up when you throw on a pair of Choice Specs and start firing off STAB, rain-boosted attacks.
Tornadus-I/T - I'm including both because they both do one thing horribly effectively: raze teams with 100% accurate STAB Hurricanes while being faster than you are. Tornadus-I is more immediately powerful, with 15 more points in his base Special Attack, while Tornadus-T is much longer-lived, with better bulk and Regenerator. The Genies continue to troll everyone, with a base speed of 111 and 121 (!!!) respectively.
Latios - A face that was once-omnipresent, Latios is biding his time for the hype of the BW2 releases to die down before he takes to the air once again. A wonderful ability in Levitate helps Latios switch in, where he can abuse that dangerous 110 base Speed and even more dangerous 130 base Special Attack and STAB Draco Meteor.

Hm. As you can see, I started to build up a lot of steam after I got through the banders.

EDIT: Oh, wow, that's wall o' text-y. If you need me to respace/reformat it to make it easier to read, lemme know.
 
Lol you pretty much summed up the list of choiced users.
Here are some I think are pretty effective:
Thundurus-T is also a very good specs user, firing Thunder in the rain, and bringing back old memories. It's like a special Haxorus, just 2 BP less offensive. With 101 speed and Volt Switch, it makes a pretty good scout also.
Also, all of the aforementioned Specs users have pretty good scarf sets also. One thing that I've noticed however is that choiced users are really easy to revenge, because they can't switch moves. That's why, specific pokemon like Scarfed Magnezone or Scarfed Terrakion, are vitally important because they defeat revengers such as Scizor or Mamoswine. Once revengers are out, I see a clear sweep for banded/specs pokemon.
 
In general I use 2 choice items at most, one of them usually being a Scarfer. Sometimes I'll use 3 if I have a spinner.

Full Choice teams can work. I used a full Choice rain team just for fun and it was surprisingly effective because a lot of rain abusers work well with Choice items. I used Scarf Politoed/Scarf Thundurus-T/Specs Tornadus-T/Specs Starmie/Band Haxorus/Band Ferrothorn.

Specs Starmie was really effective because it can Trick and Spin. This helped a lot in dealing with full Choice teams' weakness to Stall. Band Ferrothorn caught a lot of teams off guard because it hits surprisingly hard.
 
I agree. Rain seems like the ideal weather for a fully choiced out team. I've been testing one lately comrpising of Scarf Toed/Band scizor/Specs thundurus-T/Scarfed rotom w/specs latios/specs keldeo.
Priority users really mess up the team. Almost got sweeped by a +2 Lucario.
Hazards are a bit annoying- no switching moves means I have to switch pokemon more.
It's really frustrating to have Draco Meteor but to be locked on surf as Haxorus comes in and sets up.

I've been told by some users to use CB Breloom on PS, I haven't tried it yet but it seems like a good idea.
 
Electrolyte said:
•if six choiced users do not work well together, what is the maximum that will? How much is too much?
Click to expand...

I generally only use a max 2 Choice users because of this; they can't switch moves. So, when you have to switch because the selected move cannot threat the opponent, I am giving them a free turn just by switching (unless I am using U-Turn or Volt Switch). Not to mention the damage that you take from entry hazards (although I play in a metagame where hazards are rather uncommon). I generally use one Choice Scarf user and one that can be either a Choice Specs, Choice Band or another Choice Scarf user. This is because, unfortunately, Choice Scarf is necessary to outspeed many threats in the current metagame.

In short, I say that 2 choice users are the max that you should put in your team unless you are prepared to face consequences such as giving your opponent more free turns if you mispredict, or taking more damage from hazards. In theory, the less choice users that you have, the better, although it's hard (if not impossible) to make a team without resorting to the benefits from Choice items.

Electrolyte said:
•how do choiced users fare against weather/hazards?
Click to expand...

That's the problem; Due to necessity to switch often, choice users need to be prepared to take a lot of damage from entry hazards. This is not much of a problem to levitators/flying-types that are neutral to Stealth Rock (such as Gliscor) but still; the more choice users that you have, the more you will need Rapid Spin support. That's why a 6-choice users team would hardly succeed.
 
I would also mention Choice Band Stoutland, who is an absolute monster in the sand.
Also, mentioning CB Scizor's bullet punch, but no love for CB Breloom's (arguably better) mach punch? Equal power with much better coverage?
 
@Dark Fallen Angel: the good thing is that hazards are seeing less and less usage, so a team like that is becoming pretty viable. Also, the increased power choiced items give puts a lot of offensive pressure on your opponent, and many can't find time to set up hazards. Besides, Bribery mentioned specs starmie which does a great job spinning.
As for mispredicting, well that always happens when you overpredict.

Danger Mouse said:
I would also mention Choice Band Stoutland, who is an absolute monster in the sand.
Also, mentioning CB Scizor's bullet punch, but no love for CB Breloom's (arguably better) mach punch? Equal power with much better coverage.
Click to expand...
What I'm getting here is that weather in general helps a lot. Scarfed Landorus-I is a beast in sand. How about CB Sandslash? Has anyone tried that yet?
As for techniloom, well I don't see it doing very much other than mach punching. Without spore, it can't cripple, and it's low speed would mean that it's easily revenged. However a lot of people are praising it so I will test it out.
 
Electrolyte said:
@Dark Fallen Angel: the good thing is that hazards are seeing less and less usage, so a team like that is becoming pretty viable. Also, the increased power choiced items give puts a lot of offensive pressure on your opponent, and many can't find time to set up hazards. Besides, Bribery mentioned specs starmie which does a great job spinning.
As for mispredicting, well that always happens when you overpredict.


What I'm getting here is that weather in general helps a lot. Scarfed Landorus-I is a beast in sand. How about CB Sandslash? Has anyone tried that yet?
As for techniloom, well I don't see it doing very much other than mach punching. Without spore, it can't cripple, and it's low speed would mean that it's easily revenged. However a lot of people are praising it so I will test it out.
Click to expand...

Scizor has lower base speed than Breloom, just putting that out there. Breloom gets leg sweep, which is not only boosted by technician, it also lowers the opponent's speed by 1, setting them up for the 2HKO.
CB Sandslash doesn't sound like it would be very effective...Sandslash's movepool is...limited, and it's not as bulky as stoutland (it's got better defense, but it's sp. defense is atrocious), so it can't tank a hit as well. Honestly, if you're going to use a CB sand rusher, use stoutland...if you want to use a utility sand rusher, use sandslash.
 
Sorry, I did that list on the fly. If I really sat down and scoured the tier listing I could come up with a better one.

EDIT: Also, Electrolyte, go ahead and add Salamence, Thundurus-T, and maybe Jirachi to the Scarf list. Why did you exclude Salamence in the first place?
 
A scarfed Chandy is also a terror. A STAB sun-boosted Fire Blast will hurt anything that isn't IMMUNE to it. Darmanitan is in the same boat, except its Flare Blitz as opposed to Fire Blast
 
I usually only have 2 Choice users and I try to get them to have decent offensive and / or defensive synergy with each other. Anyway, I'll list a couple of more here that I've used / seen from time to time:

Effective Scarf users:
Latios - Yea, yea. Bite my ear off about Specs Latios. I know how powerful that thing is. Scarf works a bit differently. Unlike the more powerful Specs Latios, Scarf versions use their raw power to revenge kill stuff and clean up late game. List a common Dragon Dance, Quiver Dance, or Choice Scarf user and odds are, Latios can outspeed it at +1 and KO it swiftly. Oh no, my best counter to Choice Scarf Terrakion is too low on health to beat it now. Scarf Latios can bail you out. I couldn't keep the Sun away and now Volcarona is threatening to tear me apart, even at 50% health. Good thing you have a Scarf Latios with Psyshock. Scarf Moxie Salamence is trying to clean out what's left of my team with Outrage! Scarf Latios can put an end to that. You get the idea from here. Underrated, but very good and will very rarely be outsped by anything.

Effective Choice Band users:
Terrakion - So what if Keldeo has rain boosted STAB moves? Terrakion has much better coverage with his STABs. Oh, you thought it was a Scarf set and brought in your Skarmory to weather hits? Too bad Close Combat cleanly 2HKOs. Honestly, there are so few things that can take repeated beatings from this thing and if you predict the wrong STAB move, you're losing something 90% of the time.

Effective Choice Specs users:
Jolteon - Rain teams are really common and what do most all of them hate? Electric moves. Say hello to the fastest Choice Specs user in the game. May be really frail, but Jolteon makes up for that with sheer Speed and great power. Even some boosted threats such as Adamant Gyarados and Dragonite can be outsped by Jolteon. That's how fast this little guy is. Works well with VoltTurn due to how fast and powerful his Volt Switch is. Has HP Ice for Therians and Ground types. Thunder(bolt) for just about everything else. Shadow Ball the occasional Celebi or Latias and abuse that fast, powerful Volt Switch. Note that it's the only OU Pokemon to outspeed Tornadus-T without a Choice Scarf, one of the premier late-game sweepers for a rain team to have.
 
The best choice users are generally those that either get STAB on their pivot moves (Rotom-W, Scizor, Jolteon, Thundurus-T, etc.) or those that are extremely difficult to switch into (Terrakion, Salamence, Tornadus, etc.).

As for synergy between choiced users, there's the infamous Volt-turn combo, and proper teambuilding can lead to nice cores consisting of Pokemon that resist each others' weaknesses.

Most of the common choice users fare nicely in the rain because of the power boosts, accuracy boosts, and an alleviated weakness to fire. Sun, however, has a much more specific list of choice users that are more difficult to use outside of it. Sandstorm doesn't really affect choice users as much apart from adding to the residual damage and boosting the Sp Def of notable choice users like Terrakion and Tyranitar. Banded users of sand rush and sand force, however, rely heavily on sand, and thus are much less common. As for hail... I don't think it is much different from sandstorm except for a wider range of Pokemon that take residual damage from it and the more accurate Blizzard.

Moving onto hazards. You can also define the best choice users to be those that take the least damage from all types of entry hazards (I miss you, flygon). Rotom-W, Latios and Steel Types are worth noting because of levitate for the former two and the resistance to stealth rock and immunity to poison for the latter. Spikes is waning in popularity because of the multiple turns it takes to set up completely and the ease at which a rapid spin can take away three turns of hard work. SR is as omnipresent as ever, so if one is using a SR-weak choice user, it better be accompanied by a rapid spin user or be left as a late-game sweeper. Lastly, toxic spikes don't have that much of an impact on choice users because they switch out frequently, and toxic damage doesn't build up unless they stay in to sweep.

Status absolutely cripples choice users (para for scarfers and burn for banders). An all-purpose remedy would be heal bell/aromatherapy, but there usually isn't room for it in teams nowadays, so one has to play smart around status. Most status inducers are slower than choice users, so a timely U-turn/Volt Switch should get them out of harm's way. Trick also remedies status problems somewhat.

The generation minishift has brought with it a LOT more rain, so the choice users that fare well in rain have gained much more popularity. Apart from that, it has introduced faster threats in the therians and Keldeo, so scarfed revengers will probably rise in usage.

Status inducers are powerful counters to choice users. Apart from that, any Pokemon with protect (sub on the switch-in) can lead to mindgames against choice users that can go in anyone's favor but rely heavily on prediction and the rest of the respective teams. Pursuit has always been a powerful counter to those weak to it, and it counters weakened choiced users that try to switch out.

In my experience, two to three choice users can work in a team without making it unstable. A scarfer is mandatory for revenge killing except on maybe stall teams or weather teams that abuse speed-boosting abilities. A solid Volt-turning core works wonders for any team and should be incorporated if using multiple choice users.

Apologies for the huge wall of text. I'll try to make a tl;dr version of it in compact sentences.
 
I never use more that two choice users. I feel like I'm too restricted if all of my Pokemon can only use one move. I give most of my pokes multiple coverage points and they get somewhat constricted when choiced.
 
Alright, I added all of the pokemon mentioned. (I had forgotten about Salamence.)

Which also brings me to another question- could you just slap on a choice item to any offensive pokemon and call it a set? By offensive, I am not talking about Blissey. I mean sun sweepers, pokemon that usually set up, and non choiced revenge killers. Are choice items usable for every offensive pokemon? Before you blurt out no, think about it. Many of the tier's high rank pokemon have choiced sets. Why not everyone else?
 
You need to have a pretty solid attack or atleast good coverage to use a choice set, for example, espeon isn't exactly the best user of choice specs or scarf because in the world of OU, her attack is rather mediocre. Scanning down OU, there are a few offensive pokemon that would rather not have a choice item:

-Celebi
-Cloyster
-Gliscor
-Lucario
-Reuniclus
-Toxicroak
-Venusaur
-Virizion
-Volcarona

Quite a few of these pokemon would of course rather have their boosting moves and reunicles with choice specs is silly. But here is an interesting question, why isn't specs Volcarona or Virizion specs common? How about scarf Lucario or Toxicroak? I think it is perhaps that there are better pokemon for the job rather than them in most cases, Latios is more punishing, and rotom has more defensive utility and volt-switch.
 
Scarfwynaut said:
You need to have a pretty solid attack or atleast good coverage to use a choice set, for example, espeon isn't exactly the best user of choice specs or scarf because in the world of OU, her attack is rather mediocre.
Click to expand...

Espeon's 130 SpA is mediocre in OU? Maybe Ubers, but not OU.
I personally find Espeon to be a great Specs user, coming in on hazard users and stall Pokes and spamming Specs Psychic / Psyshock with 110 Spe, 130 SpA and decent Special Bulk. Of course, the main draw isn't power, it's Magic Bounce, but that's what makes it such a good Specs user. It fits into offense teams seamlessly so they never lose momentum with Rapid Spin while still hitting like a frickin' truck (although a truck with awful coverage :P).
 
I have seen a few teams of 4 drag 2 mag (and obvious variations of that general structure) using all choiced mons. It is effective and frustrating to play against - we all know how difficult it can be to counter when you throw a few volt-turn users in there as well.
 
JellyOs said:
Espeon's 130 SpA is mediocre in OU? Maybe Ubers, but not OU.
I personally find Espeon to be a great Specs user, coming in on hazard users and stall Pokes and spamming Specs Psychic / Psyshock with 110 Spe, 130 SpA and decent Special Bulk. Of course, the main draw isn't power, it's Magic Bounce, but that's what makes it such a good Specs user. It fits into offense teams seamlessly so they never lose momentum with Rapid Spin while still hitting like a frickin' truck (although a truck with awful coverage :P).
Click to expand...

Espeon could work as a Spec user but like you said its main draw is more of Magic Bounce anyways and if it were to use Specs its much better to use it to trick onto an incoming switch in that wouldn't appreciate it. What Espeon has issues with as an actual spec offense is coverage with Psychic-type it simply doesn't hit much for neutral or super effective in OU. Moreover, Psychic/Psyshock are not exactly THAT strong of a move as compared to say more prominent dragon moves that can abuse Choice items. That and psychic type doesn't exactly have that good of a coverage IMO lots of common switch ins to psychic types resist the stab or are outright immune to it.

Which is why I would add to what Scarfwynaut said a third clause namely that the base power of the attack being fired (not counting STAB) is relatively high, 100-120 seem like a good estimate (course there are those that use moves with lower BP take Scizor for instance but they fulfill the first possible condition in that they have VERY HIGH offense stats).

Finally, I think though somewhat more situational trick would be another reason to use a choiced item - especially good for those mons that cause common switch ins that would not appreciate choiced items tricked onto them. Or at least as a good stop gap measure on very obvious boosters.
 
Most offensive Pokemon in the OU Metagame should be able to operate as choice users, except of course those that heavily rely on their setup moves to even carve their niche into the OU Metagame. Cloyster, for example, is practically useless without Shell Smash (you aren't going to waste a precious move slot on Spikes or even the godly Rapid Spin!). Volcarona has a very, very difficult time switching in if not paired with a rapid spinner, and a good opponent will be sure to set up stealth rock every time before Volcarona gets to see the sun again. Besides, her most common moves are walled by Heatran and a bunch of other mons, so she'll have to switch out more often than not. In general, Pokemon who are better off setting up are not good choice users. However, some Pokemon (like Terrakion), who have excellent boosting moves, are still better off using choice items because they are either forced out quite easily by priority moves or have a slew of common counters. Scizor shares the same story. Lastly, offensive Pokemon that don't have usable boosting moves are generally preferred as choice users (Rotom-W, Arcanine, etc.).
 
I never really liked using Choice Scarf and only on a select few Pokes do I think it is worth it. You get locked onto a weak coverage move, which will likely happen to revenge/kill a threat, and it causes you to be screwed by becoming set up bait. I would call it unreliable in a way since revenging certain threats is dependent on what speed tier you are located in. IMO only a select few Pokes can pull off scarf very well and if a Poke in question doesn't possess good STAB, a resistance to common forms of priority, AND a good speed tier it isn't worth it.

Choice Band/Specs on the otherhand I'm an avid fan of. First off, I would just like to point out that having the option to run a Bander' with priority is one key reasons why I dislike Choice Scarf. Instead of revenging a threat with all weak moves at certain speed tiers/boosts, why not revenge a threat with a poke that possesses only one weak move and can transcend speed itself? That's why I think that some of the best CB'ers out there are the ones the hold pretty strong priority: Scizor, Mamoswine, Weavile, Azumarill, Metagross, Breloom, Conkeldurr, Dnite, and CSpecs Infernape and Lucario.

There are two other things that IMO make a good Choice Band/Specs: having a good STAB and more importantly having the ability to switch on your own. Unlike Scarfers, CB/CSpecs users aren't reserved for moments that you need to outspeed so they need to come in with ease. This can be interpreted a number of ways: having a weakness to hazards, having terrible defenses, having too many weakness/few resists. This is where a lot of potentially good CB/CSpecs users fail. Off the top of my head CB Weaville, CSpecs Lucario, CSpecs Starmie, CB Darmanitan, CB Staraptor, and CB Mamoswine are classic examples of this. However I take this to the extreme haha. I hate using CB Haxorus because it has a pitiful amount of things to come into and the types he resist prey on his special defense. Choice Band Gyarados (too sr weak;good typing) and Choice Specs Latios are other extreme examples of this. Especially Choice Spec Latios, it screams "PURSUIT TRAP ME!" too much lol. Overall they should be pretty self sufficent, no Rapid Spin no Volt-Turn Support.

The Pokes with the good bulk and resists to switch in are the most efficent CB/CSpecs users IMO. CB Dnite, Cspecs Heatran, CB Metagross, CB Conkeldurr, etc.

Having a ballin STAB moves and coverage can make up for this. This is why CB Terrakion, who can be pretty tough to switch in sometimes, makes the cut. CB Salamence also makes the cut for this reason with Fire coverage over Haxorus+Moxie (it is too much fun to play with).

tl;dr Choice Scarf can suck it; Choice Specs/Choice Band is the way to go with choice items. Also I think I am the only one who thinks banded Ferrothorn is good ^^

Exeptions to the rule in Bold
Conkeldurr
Scizor
Dragonite
Breloom
Metagross
Azumarill
Salamence
Terrakion
Ferrothorn
Tyranitar
Snorlax (too underrated)
Swampert
Aerodactyl (yes I am 100% serious)
Ussually these guys are bulkier/have more immunities than banders because they lack priority on the special side

TORNADUS-T (yeah bar none the best lol)
Heatran
Gastrodon
Hydreigon
Empoleon
Jolteon
Politoed
Tangrowth (it sounds silly but its interesting)
Infernape
Rotom-W
Salamence
Rotom-W
Landorus-I
Terrakion
Gengar
Latios
Hydreigon
Infernape
 
ThePillsburyDoughBoy said:
I never really liked using Choice Scarf and only on a select few Pokes do I think it is worth it. You get locked onto a weak coverage move, which will likely happen to revenge/kill a threat, and it causes you to be screwed by becoming set up bait. I would call it unreliable in a way since revenging certain threats is dependent on what speed tier you are located in. IMO only a select few Pokes can pull off scarf very well and if a Poke in question doesn't possess good STAB, a resistance to common forms of priority, AND a good speed tier it isn't worth it.
Click to expand...

The problem with Choice Scarf is that you get locked in an attack that doesn't get boosted. I think that then, the only pokémon that you should use Choice Scarf are those that have insane levels of Attack or/and Special Attack, or those that receives boosts in power in another way (Sand Force in case of Landorus, for example).

It's a shame that Choice Scarf is almost necessary to outrun many threats, unless you have priority, but these moves are weak when not backing from STAB and a base 120 Atk/SpA or higher. I use Scarf because I need, not because I like using. However, some Scarf users are actually very good. Tyranitar for example, is naturally slow, but it's attack and movepool are so amazing that slapping a Choice Scarf actually becomes viable, and a good thing so he can outrun and kill many (not so) fast threats.

MCG93 said:
However, some Pokemon (like Terrakion), who have excellent boosting moves, are still better off using choice items because they are either forced out quite easily by priority moves or have a slew of common counters. Scizor shares the same story.
Click to expand...

They are amazing when they can setup (even better than their choice versions), but first, you must eliminate their counters and anything that can wall them. Once you do this, you can wreak havoc. But if at time that you find an opportunity to setup, your opponent was already weakened so that you can destroy him without resorting to setup, you are better off using Choice items. The Terrakion cited in the example, can be absurdly hard to stop with it's Double Dance set if you don't have Scizor, Conkeldurr, Azumarill etc. But as these threats are common, many people prefer using Terrakion with a choice item so you don't have to waste your boosts when switching just because that pokémon with what you just meet can easily defeat him.

The general rule when choosing between choice items and setup moves is; If your pokémon can find many opportunities to use Swords Dance, Agility, Nasty Plot, etc, and abuse these boosts - use that setup move. But if your pokémon have to switch very often because of common threats that can take them down even with those boosts, and thus wasting the boosts and the time lost to get them, you are better off using Choice items.

Of course, this is always a problem for pokémon that use setup-boost moves, but I am speaking of those that have this problem further compounded by their multitude of weakness or fragility.
 
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