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Creative (and good) Movesets (READ THE OP FIRST)
- Thread starter sax king
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Terrakion @ Salac Berry
252 atk, 4 Hp, 252 Spe
Jolly nature
-Substitute
-Swords Dance
-Close combat
-Stone edge
This is the set. It's basically a stronger scarfed Terrakion that's usually behind a substitute and lacks X-scissor. Beware of scizors.
EDIT: Ninja'd by Pocket and ExpertPhysics
EDIT: oops lol jolly not timid
You could use SD, a sort of double bluff, 2 edge sword kind of ordeal. Your a SD set & a Sub salac set in 1.
I've seen X-Scissor used. It covers Latios :P
Wrong nature. You want jolly. Not timid.
I run
Jolly / 4 HP (HP number divisible by 4) / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Swords Dance / Substitute / Close Combat / Stone Edge
This sets only weaknesses are Toxic Spikes, Priority and Chlorophyll/Swift Swimmers. Probably Scarfed base 110's+ too but who the hell uses that
Jolly / 4 HP (HP number divisible by 4) / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Swords Dance / Substitute / Close Combat / Stone Edge
This sets only weaknesses are Toxic Spikes, Priority and Chlorophyll/Swift Swimmers. Probably Scarfed base 110's+ too but who the hell uses that
Drizzle Team Utility Gyarados
Gyarados @ Leftovers
252 Def, 56 Hp, 192 SpA, 8 Spe
Modest nature
-Thunder Wave/Taunt
-Icy Wind
-Dragon Tail/Hydro Pump
-Thunder
Utility Gyarados. Intimidate + Def EVs allow it to act as a physical check to many common threats. Just watch out for Rock-Type attacks and Breloom.
Thunder Wave allows Gyarados to apply crippling status. Taunt helps greatly with Amoonguss and Ferrothorn (or if you expect a Breloom switch-in), but honestly, you should have a stall-breaker with taunt to deal with those two.
Icy Wind and Thunder form a ghetto bolt/beam combination that allows Gyarados to seriously threaten sweeper dragons or bulky water or grass types that may switch in expecting Gyarados to try setting up dance.
STAB Hydro Pump is an option, should you not need Gyarados to phase. Helps a ton with taking down steels. Combined with rain, this will hit like a truck, even coming from a Gyarados. Additionally, you could use Waterfall, but such a thing would be far less threatening to most Def-heavy steels.
There you have it, a stall for common physical attackers that can also status, phase, and surprise with heavy base-power attacks.
Gyarados @ Leftovers
252 Def, 56 Hp, 192 SpA, 8 Spe
Modest nature
-Thunder Wave/Taunt
-Icy Wind
-Dragon Tail/Hydro Pump
-Thunder
Utility Gyarados. Intimidate + Def EVs allow it to act as a physical check to many common threats. Just watch out for Rock-Type attacks and Breloom.
Thunder Wave allows Gyarados to apply crippling status. Taunt helps greatly with Amoonguss and Ferrothorn (or if you expect a Breloom switch-in), but honestly, you should have a stall-breaker with taunt to deal with those two.
Icy Wind and Thunder form a ghetto bolt/beam combination that allows Gyarados to seriously threaten sweeper dragons or bulky water or grass types that may switch in expecting Gyarados to try setting up dance.
STAB Hydro Pump is an option, should you not need Gyarados to phase. Helps a ton with taking down steels. Combined with rain, this will hit like a truck, even coming from a Gyarados. Additionally, you could use Waterfall, but such a thing would be far less threatening to most Def-heavy steels.
There you have it, a stall for common physical attackers that can also status, phase, and surprise with heavy base-power attacks.
Gyarados using Special Attacks is pretty horrible. The most common Steel is probably Specially Defensive Jirachi, and you wouldn't even dent it with a Rain Boosted Hydro Pump. Even with all those Special Attack EVs, You still may not even 2HKO Specially Defensive Skarmory after lefties (49.7%-58.7%), so even Skarm has a good shot at PP stalling you by spamming Roost. Thunder does even less, coming in at 44.3% - 52.7%. For what it's worth, an Adamant Waterfall does 44.3% - 52.4% if you move those EVs into attack, so it's not really worth it. If you're curious, here are the calcs against SpD Jirachi:
Modest 192 SpA EV Hydro Pump: 33.4% - 39.6%
Adamant 192 Att EV Waterfall: 49.8% - 58.7%
As you can see, Gyarados shouldn't be running Special Attacks, even as a gimmick; there's just too much power loss. Another good reason to stick to the physical side is so Gyara can focus his EVs into his defenses; a utility pokemon should try to stick around as long as possible, but Gyara's bulk is only good, not great and he carries a SR weakness. He really needs the extra bulk to do his job, and Waterfall will hit hard even without investment.
It's true that Jirachi with a SpD setup counters this pretty hard. Truthfully, I would swap out immediately upon seeing a Jirachi when I'm using a Gyarados in the rain, unless my opponent was clearly utilizing another form of weather. With this set, it's probably wise to just switch out anyway, due to the high likelihood of thunder wave.
Swap for a ground type and start firing off some STAB attacks.
As for Skarmory, I have no interest in how hard a rain-boosted hydro pump hits it, because the set utilizes Thunder, which will 2HKO both the Physically and Specially defensive variants.
It's true that the niche for this utility setup is small, but it does exist.
I'll admit that this set runs the risk of spreading one poke too thin, trying to fill many roles, but there are very few options for a physical stall that can phase, lower two stats, status/taunt, and deal damage with threatening coverage.
It is very gimmicky and relies quite a bit on the element of surprise, but it's worth a shot if you're interested in support Gyarados for your rain team.
^ Nevermind the fact that Gyarados learns Ice Beam, not that any competent player would use a special based Gyarados.
Did you even read the post? It was just demonstrated that your Hydro Pump outdamages Thunder (240 Thunder < 270 Hydro Pump), and that neither move can reliably 2HKO SpDef Skarmory.
Specially oriented Gyarados is bad, and no amount of surprise factor can mitigate that fact. Physical Gyarados does everything this set attempts to do with far greater damage, and just as much 'utility', as Hydro Pump provides none, nor does Thunder or Icy Wind.
Did you even read the post? It was just demonstrated that your Hydro Pump outdamages Thunder (240 Thunder < 270 Hydro Pump), and that neither move can reliably 2HKO SpDef Skarmory.
Specially oriented Gyarados is bad, and no amount of surprise factor can mitigate that fact. Physical Gyarados does everything this set attempts to do with far greater damage, and just as much 'utility', as Hydro Pump provides none, nor does Thunder or Icy Wind.
Ferrothorn is the most common steel not Jirachi. Looks like bad nes for (lol) spm attacking gyarados!
Stallbreaker Hydreigon:
Hydreigon@Leftovers
Modest Nature
252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
-Dragon Pulse
-Charge Beam
-Taunt
-Roost
With the introduction of the BW move tutors, Hydreigon gets access to the covetted Taunt+Roost combination. Hydreigon actually has good bulk and a good defensive typing too. While this set does limit Hydreigon's offensive prowess it explores its unexplored defensive capability. Dragon+Electric I believe is only resisted by Ferrothorn in OU. Charge Beam boosts Hydreigon's special attack to become progressively harder to take hits from. Taunt and Roost makes sure he can keep this boosting up. I would strongly suggest to pair it up with a layer of Toxic Spikes so Hydreigon can stall those who might be immune to Charge Beam, Like Spe. Def Hippowdon and Gastrodon. Even 1 layer helps into taking chipping these defensive behemothes down. Annoyances include Spe Def Jirachi with Body Slam and Ferrothorn with Gyro Ball.
Now the EV spread has to be played around with a bit. 252 HP I think is staple, but I don't think Max speed with Modest is necesary. I think outspeed Adamant Dragonite by 1 point would be a good place to start. Those leftover EV's would go into defense to take Ferrothorn's Gyro Ball more easily.
Charge Beam+Taunt have no imcompatibility right?
Stallbreaker Hydreigon:
Hydreigon@Leftovers
Modest Nature
252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
-Dragon Pulse
-Charge Beam
-Taunt
-Roost
With the introduction of the BW move tutors, Hydreigon gets access to the covetted Taunt+Roost combination. Hydreigon actually has good bulk and a good defensive typing too. While this set does limit Hydreigon's offensive prowess it explores its unexplored defensive capability. Dragon+Electric I believe is only resisted by Ferrothorn in OU. Charge Beam boosts Hydreigon's special attack to become progressively harder to take hits from. Taunt and Roost makes sure he can keep this boosting up. I would strongly suggest to pair it up with a layer of Toxic Spikes so Hydreigon can stall those who might be immune to Charge Beam, Like Spe. Def Hippowdon and Gastrodon. Even 1 layer helps into taking chipping these defensive behemothes down. Annoyances include Spe Def Jirachi with Body Slam and Ferrothorn with Gyro Ball.
Now the EV spread has to be played around with a bit. 252 HP I think is staple, but I don't think Max speed with Modest is necesary. I think outspeed Adamant Dragonite by 1 point would be a good place to start. Those leftover EV's would go into defense to take Ferrothorn's Gyro Ball more easily.
Charge Beam+Taunt have no imcompatibility right?
Yeah, gives you the utility of a different item too.
This seems like a nice set. I might recommend throwing in your own status, though I can't see any move you'd want to replace, and then it is outclassed by other statusing wallbreakers.
and taunt+charge beam are compatible; they are both TM moves.
Just when I thought we were having a serious discussion.
Mixed Sub'n'Wallbreaking Kyurem.
The way I play it is waiting something died (bluffing a scarf set, which is very common in hail teams...) or come in on something that cant touch it and sub. This way it often kills at least one opponent Mon or even two.
Kyurem @ Leftovers
Trait: Pressure
EVs: 52 HP / 16 Atk / 252 SAtk / 188 Spd
Hasty Nature (+Spd, -Def)
- Substitute
- Outrage
- Blizzard
- Focus Blast
So this is the Kyurem Set I use on my Hail-Team.
I choose Leftovers for recovery and to be able to do more subs.
The EV's and nature maybe seem odd but I'll explain.
52Hp EVs for 101 Subs.
16 Atk EVs to reach 300 Atk - allowing you to to hit special walls hard with Outrage. (and seriously... who thinks a sub kyurem is mixed? ... no one).
252 SpAtk EVs for maximum neutral nature attack power, reaching a nice stat of 359 (timid Latios for example has the exact same SpAtk stats...)
188 Spd EVs + Hasty nature gives you a speed stat of 300, allowing you to outspeed neutral base-speed 100 Mon's with 252 Spd EVs.
The way I play it is waiting something died (bluffing a scarf set, which is very common in hail teams...) or come in on something that cant touch it and sub. This way it often kills at least one opponent Mon or even two.
Kyurem @ Leftovers
Trait: Pressure
EVs: 52 HP / 16 Atk / 252 SAtk / 188 Spd
Hasty Nature (+Spd, -Def)
- Substitute
- Outrage
- Blizzard
- Focus Blast
So this is the Kyurem Set I use on my Hail-Team.
I choose Leftovers for recovery and to be able to do more subs.
The EV's and nature maybe seem odd but I'll explain.
52Hp EVs for 101 Subs.
16 Atk EVs to reach 300 Atk - allowing you to to hit special walls hard with Outrage. (and seriously... who thinks a sub kyurem is mixed? ... no one).
252 SpAtk EVs for maximum neutral nature attack power, reaching a nice stat of 359 (timid Latios for example has the exact same SpAtk stats...)
188 Spd EVs + Hasty nature gives you a speed stat of 300, allowing you to outspeed neutral base-speed 100 Mon's with 252 Spd EVs.
I used a similar Kyurem set awhile back. It wasn't a wallbreaking set, as I already had a wallbreaker. I can't remember the EVs I had, but I remember having Draco Meteor, Outrage, Blizzard, and Focus Blast. A lot of people would switch out their Steel types after Draco Meteor, figuring his special was to low to pose a threat, opening up for a hard Outrage hit on a poke looking to start setting up on the switch
I've seen a few mixed Kyurem before, but I've never seen them with Substitute. Do you find that Outrage and Substitute have bad synergy? I would think that it would get frustrating needing to switch out with a Sub up due to confusion. Now for my set!
SpecsIcuno
Articuno@Choice Specs
Modest Nature, 40 HP / 252 SpA / 216 Spe
Blizzard
Hurricane
HP Fire/HP Fighting
Signal Beam/U-Turn
Articuno is still wallowing in the depths of NU, but can be surprisingly useful on most Hail teams. Articuno is one of the bulkiest Ice types and has a decent 95 base Special Attack, meaning she can take hits and fire off powerful Blizzards with ease. At first, it may seem Kyurem completely outclasses her, but this is not true anymore thanks to the new move she received from B2/W2: Hurricane. Now, Articuno can terrorize opposing Rain teams even if Abomnasnow loses the weather war.
The Hidden Power of choice is HP Fire, since it lets you dent incoming Jirachi. However, HP Fighting is an option if Tyranitar proves difficult to beat. Signal Beam is mostly filler, but Articuno's movepool is barren. U-Turn is an option there as well, but isn't ideal thanks to Articuno's low Attack stat and SR weakness. The EVs maximize power and let you outspeed neutral Base 80s, but you'll need to put in a few more into Speed if you're using HP Fighting. The rest are put into HP to supplement Articuno's bulk. Without Roost or Leftovers, Articuno obviously needs a Spinner, but this isn't too much of a problem since most Hail teams carry one anyways.
While she may not be a top-tier threat, thanks to Hurricane and Blizzard she merits consideration on Hail teams.
SpecsIcuno
Articuno@Choice Specs
Modest Nature, 40 HP / 252 SpA / 216 Spe
Blizzard
Hurricane
HP Fire/HP Fighting
Signal Beam/U-Turn
Articuno is still wallowing in the depths of NU, but can be surprisingly useful on most Hail teams. Articuno is one of the bulkiest Ice types and has a decent 95 base Special Attack, meaning she can take hits and fire off powerful Blizzards with ease. At first, it may seem Kyurem completely outclasses her, but this is not true anymore thanks to the new move she received from B2/W2: Hurricane. Now, Articuno can terrorize opposing Rain teams even if Abomnasnow loses the weather war.
The Hidden Power of choice is HP Fire, since it lets you dent incoming Jirachi. However, HP Fighting is an option if Tyranitar proves difficult to beat. Signal Beam is mostly filler, but Articuno's movepool is barren. U-Turn is an option there as well, but isn't ideal thanks to Articuno's low Attack stat and SR weakness. The EVs maximize power and let you outspeed neutral Base 80s, but you'll need to put in a few more into Speed if you're using HP Fighting. The rest are put into HP to supplement Articuno's bulk. Without Roost or Leftovers, Articuno obviously needs a Spinner, but this isn't too much of a problem since most Hail teams carry one anyways.
While she may not be a top-tier threat, thanks to Hurricane and Blizzard she merits consideration on Hail teams.
I honestly can't see the merit in that articuno. While I won't just knock down offensive articuno variants, it just doesn't seem worth it to run. Choiced Pokemon are forced out of battle eat too often. A choiced pokemon who is 4x weak to SR while only having base 95 special attack power is even worse. Hp fire doesn't even 2hko Jirachi.
Although it is nice to see someone try to come up with a useful articuno set. Personal experience so far has deemed articuno as an inferior moltres. Moltres has better defensive and offensive synergy on hail teams than articuno does.
Although it is nice to see someone try to come up with a useful articuno set. Personal experience so far has deemed articuno as an inferior moltres. Moltres has better defensive and offensive synergy on hail teams than articuno does.
Don't forget about the numurous scarfed electric types running around (Rotom-W, Thundurus, Jolteon, etc.) that could outspeed easily and take a massive chunk of health away with STAB Tbolt. Scarfed Rotom-W Tbolt does 67-80% to 40/0 Articuno, while Articuno replies with a Blizzard that deals 51-60% back. If Rotom-W can get in scotch free, then it can KO the ice bird.
It also seems kind of shady to rely on two weathers for STAB... Ice beam should be a slash for Blizzard.
It also seems kind of shady to rely on two weathers for STAB... Ice beam should be a slash for Blizzard.
I haven't seen too many Scarfed Electric-types, and the one's I've seen have been the least of Articuno's worries. Hail teams generally don't have a problem with them since Kyurem, Abomnasnow, and Mamoswine (the three best Ice types IMO) all resist or are immune to Electric moves. Kyurem uses Rotom-W as total setup bait, and don't forget that Rotom can only switch into one STAB weather move safely, so he's not really a great check. I've been using Ice Beam in the fourth slot since Articuno doesn't have much better to run, and it's been serviceable.
Yeah, I've been testing it out and it's been pretty hit-or-miss. I posted it after she carried me to victory three games in a row, but lately she hasn't been doing so hot. Although personally, I haven't had too many games where she's been complete dead weight...but I'd rather just stick to Kyurem for my Blizzard abuser lol. It was worth a shot.
I prefer this build on Articuno
Ice Beam
Bubble Beam
Hurricane
Rain Dance
With Life Orb and Timid 252 SpAtt and 252Speed
Ice Beam
Bubble Beam
Hurricane
Rain Dance
With Life Orb and Timid 252 SpAtt and 252Speed
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