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The Everything NFL Thread - 2012 Season (Up til 2013 Draft)
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I don't know which stands out more: how impressive the cowboys are playing, how suckish the Giants defense is, or how well the replacement refs are doing.
Though it looks Eli is pulling a Eli.
Though it looks Eli is pulling a Eli.
Rough game. Oline and secondary played terribly, especially Tryon. Man that guy got killed.
Edit: As bad as the secondary played, I think that will improve with time, or at least when Coe/Prince/Hosley get healthy. But the OLine is going to be a tough fix. Cowboys defense really stood out to me - got lots of pressure, Carr and the other guy whose name is escaping me really limited Nicks and Cruz
Edit: As bad as the secondary played, I think that will improve with time, or at least when Coe/Prince/Hosley get healthy. But the OLine is going to be a tough fix. Cowboys defense really stood out to me - got lots of pressure, Carr and the other guy whose name is escaping me really limited Nicks and Cruz
In all fairness, the Giants were down a couple CBs.
The fact that they played so badly and still had a chance is a testament that they're still a decent team.
Really, though, Romo was pretty flawless in this game (besides the interception). Over 10 yards/attempt, 76% completion percentage, and obviously the three touchdowns, all while avoiding pressure (especially after the first quarter). The O-Line is still worrisome, but they held off one of the top D-Lines most of the game - if they can repeat that for the whole season they'll be plenty good enough to win the NFC East this year.
The fact that they played so badly and still had a chance is a testament that they're still a decent team.
Really, though, Romo was pretty flawless in this game (besides the interception). Over 10 yards/attempt, 76% completion percentage, and obviously the three touchdowns, all while avoiding pressure (especially after the first quarter). The O-Line is still worrisome, but they held off one of the top D-Lines most of the game - if they can repeat that for the whole season they'll be plenty good enough to win the NFC East this year.
Yes this is what will happen when you are fielding your 5th and 6th string cornerbacks vs a competent NFL Quarterback... All I can say is dear god please let Amukamara and Hosley get back for next week, because otherwise the Giants will continue to make no-name wide receivers look like that every week....
Also Cruz and David Wilson working on their ball skills would be nice :)
Also Cruz and David Wilson working on their ball skills would be nice :)
First, that was the worst first half of Giant football since the Falcons in the playoffs. Tebus i was never on the Killdrive wagon since the running game actually picked up during that game.. But now you can consider me a full on member. I'm off of Fewells butt and onto his. Before i get to player performances a couple of things. Ware still continues to be a class act. I almost shed a tear when he helped Eli up. Not sure if it was the refs or the Cowboys are at it again, but there were way too many penalties. Is it just me or are these Giants cursed/blessed to break streaks and prove everyone wrong?
Why they lost: OL couldn't contain the Boys passrusher(s) and even the Pressure King Eli couldn't save them there. A lot of dropped balls(zing). The Giants offense looked off. This can be attributed to Killdrives stupid playcalling. He wanted to set up the run game early. This proved fatal(and really stupid). Leading to several wasted drives. Again, we can officially assume the run game will be the same as last year. Lets just hope he gets slapped and forced into setting the run after getting the passing game going. The defense played well enough but could not keep it up thanks to a pathetic(early on) offense. Too many injuries in the secondary. What we can take from this? Stop trying to run and rely on Eli to get the offense going, setting up the run in the process. And again the Giants continue to play down to tbeir oposition and refuse to accept the fact that they are a pass first team now.
Anyways, player performances:
Eli Manning: As expected, he has taken his game to another level. Even with dumb playcalling he almost single handedly won the game during the second half. He has become ecen more accurate and again suffered from terrible drops. Not anything new since his receivers are pretty good at that. Great game for him and showed he could win the game as long as he is passing the ball.
Victor Cruz: Too many dropped balls(lol), which was a problem last year. Thankfully it is a mental problem that can be fixed. Played great when he had the chance. I guess he had another Cruz game.
Nicks: Looked way too slow and it was obvious his foot kept him from doing much. Some great catches though. Gets a pass.
Marty B: This guy is AWESOME! The dumb drop aside he was amazing. Once he gets Elis trust and connect this guy will be a beast.
Michael Coe: Played well enough for depth level but Prince really needs to step up. Can't hold this guy accountable too much since he was just dropped into the fire.
Tryon: Well, i guess hes a 5th stringer for a reason, so no reason to bash him.
David Diehl: Still terrible.
JPP: Still amazing. Looked like he was on a whole other level this game. And was borderline unblockable. Props for the Boys for playing effectively against him.
Wilson: Stupid fumble, but it was to be expected. 1 mistake does not define a career, well for most players.
Bradshaw: Meh.
Hixon: He was alright. Still not convinced he is our 3rd. Though if he keeps up the ridiculous plays then i guess he will do.
All in all, ugly defeat is ugly. But like i said before other than the Brown game, this would be the game to lose.
Why they lost: OL couldn't contain the Boys passrusher(s) and even the Pressure King Eli couldn't save them there. A lot of dropped balls(zing). The Giants offense looked off. This can be attributed to Killdrives stupid playcalling. He wanted to set up the run game early. This proved fatal(and really stupid). Leading to several wasted drives. Again, we can officially assume the run game will be the same as last year. Lets just hope he gets slapped and forced into setting the run after getting the passing game going. The defense played well enough but could not keep it up thanks to a pathetic(early on) offense. Too many injuries in the secondary. What we can take from this? Stop trying to run and rely on Eli to get the offense going, setting up the run in the process. And again the Giants continue to play down to tbeir oposition and refuse to accept the fact that they are a pass first team now.
Anyways, player performances:
Eli Manning: As expected, he has taken his game to another level. Even with dumb playcalling he almost single handedly won the game during the second half. He has become ecen more accurate and again suffered from terrible drops. Not anything new since his receivers are pretty good at that. Great game for him and showed he could win the game as long as he is passing the ball.
Victor Cruz: Too many dropped balls(lol), which was a problem last year. Thankfully it is a mental problem that can be fixed. Played great when he had the chance. I guess he had another Cruz game.
Nicks: Looked way too slow and it was obvious his foot kept him from doing much. Some great catches though. Gets a pass.
Marty B: This guy is AWESOME! The dumb drop aside he was amazing. Once he gets Elis trust and connect this guy will be a beast.
Michael Coe: Played well enough for depth level but Prince really needs to step up. Can't hold this guy accountable too much since he was just dropped into the fire.
Tryon: Well, i guess hes a 5th stringer for a reason, so no reason to bash him.
David Diehl: Still terrible.
JPP: Still amazing. Looked like he was on a whole other level this game. And was borderline unblockable. Props for the Boys for playing effectively against him.
Wilson: Stupid fumble, but it was to be expected. 1 mistake does not define a career, well for most players.
Bradshaw: Meh.
Hixon: He was alright. Still not convinced he is our 3rd. Though if he keeps up the ridiculous plays then i guess he will do.
All in all, ugly defeat is ugly. But like i said before other than the Brown game, this would be the game to lose.
Romo end of last season:
279 2/0
270 3 0
292 3 0
226 2 2
299 1 0
321 4 0
249 3 0
289 2 1
Tonight was not anomalous, yeah the CB situation made it easier to get to the end point, but this game was basically the exact same Tony Romo we saw to end last season...the Giants are going to need to do better than a lot of dropped passes to beat us next time.
I said this was coming, Romo seems to be closely resembling Brees' level of play, so a 35/12 season (really up to 37 TD with the slight inflation passing averages have held) repeat this year was always coming.
279 2/0
270 3 0
292 3 0
226 2 2
299 1 0
321 4 0
249 3 0
289 2 1
Tonight was not anomalous, yeah the CB situation made it easier to get to the end point, but this game was basically the exact same Tony Romo we saw to end last season...the Giants are going to need to do better than a lot of dropped passes to beat us next time.
I said this was coming, Romo seems to be closely resembling Brees' level of play, so a 35/12 season (really up to 37 TD with the slight inflation passing averages have held) repeat this year was always coming.
Cool, cool. Eli end of last season/today:
Yards TD/I Pass Rating
346 3/0 137
277 3/0 129
330 3/1 114
316 2/0 82
296 1/0 103
213 1/0 94
So like i have been trying to tell you folks a 35/8 65% season is coming up based on the last final games. Eli seems to be resembling Tom Brady with a little Peyton thrown in there for good measure on 2 minute drills. If only they stopped trying to run...
Yards TD/I Pass Rating
346 3/0 137
277 3/0 129
330 3/1 114
316 2/0 82
296 1/0 103
213 1/0 94
So like i have been trying to tell you folks a 35/8 65% season is coming up based on the last final games. Eli seems to be resembling Tom Brady with a little Peyton thrown in there for good measure on 2 minute drills. If only they stopped trying to run...
eli manning end of last season (+7 interceptions, -5 touchdowns from Romo):
2/2, 1/1, 2/1, 3/1, 2/1, 0/3, 1/1, 3/0 (and the yards do not mean anything when you are just recklessly airing it out all the time, Eli averaged 5 more attempts and hit 40+ 5 times, Romo kept it cool and only went over 40 once)
I think reading that troll post of yours was the last time I need to pay attention to you this season, cool cool
2/2, 1/1, 2/1, 3/1, 2/1, 0/3, 1/1, 3/0 (and the yards do not mean anything when you are just recklessly airing it out all the time, Eli averaged 5 more attempts and hit 40+ 5 times, Romo kept it cool and only went over 40 once)
I think reading that troll post of yours was the last time I need to pay attention to you this season, cool cool
Well, when you take into consideration the following you will see that Eli and Romo are basically equals at this point:
First, you so dubiously just shared Romos passing yards and TD/I ratio while leaving any context out the window. Why should i have to do something different than you to make the same point? Second, going back to your point, we were only looking at the final games of the season. Which of course means that we can decide what that means. To you it means the regular season, for several reasons, but to me it means when the Giants got healthy and no longer required superhero Eli. Who was reckless.
But context is everything my friend. The fact the Eli is forced to pass down on a regular basis while maintaining a high completion % is an incredible compliment to him. Romo, as you so proudly stated, is not forced to pass down the field that much. Which is very smart playcalling by one JG, considering how bad the Cowboys OL line. Eli on the other hand is not only forced to make regular dumb throws by a dumb OC, he is forced to do it without the threat of the play action pass and with the single worst pass protection in the league. The fact that Eli completes any pass at all is a testament to his unique abilities.. I wish Killdrive stopped taking shots down the field on a regular basis, but he does and Eli does it very well considering his challenges.
Eli does throw some goofy looking balls every game, but that's because he is forced to. And all you focus on is on those couple of "bad" throws, which is petty. Actually they are not bad throws most of the time, it's just that they have a low % of working in the first place. Romo not being forced to make long throws does not make him a better player. They just make him look like a better player.
(Not talking about left handed throws/mistakes in general because all QBs make them. And so does Eli. He just trusts his receivers and his arm a little too much.)
First, you so dubiously just shared Romos passing yards and TD/I ratio while leaving any context out the window. Why should i have to do something different than you to make the same point? Second, going back to your point, we were only looking at the final games of the season. Which of course means that we can decide what that means. To you it means the regular season, for several reasons, but to me it means when the Giants got healthy and no longer required superhero Eli. Who was reckless.
But context is everything my friend. The fact the Eli is forced to pass down on a regular basis while maintaining a high completion % is an incredible compliment to him. Romo, as you so proudly stated, is not forced to pass down the field that much. Which is very smart playcalling by one JG, considering how bad the Cowboys OL line. Eli on the other hand is not only forced to make regular dumb throws by a dumb OC, he is forced to do it without the threat of the play action pass and with the single worst pass protection in the league. The fact that Eli completes any pass at all is a testament to his unique abilities.. I wish Killdrive stopped taking shots down the field on a regular basis, but he does and Eli does it very well considering his challenges.
Eli does throw some goofy looking balls every game, but that's because he is forced to. And all you focus on is on those couple of "bad" throws, which is petty. Actually they are not bad throws most of the time, it's just that they have a low % of working in the first place. Romo not being forced to make long throws does not make him a better player. They just make him look like a better player.
(Not talking about left handed throws/mistakes in general because all QBs make them. And so does Eli. He just trusts his receivers and his arm a little too much.)
A 35/12 season last year was what "should have" happened, considering Romo missed a full game and a half, or least something like 34/12. Repeating this wouldn't even be a large step forward, as it should be expected (barring bad O-Line play).
The thing is, Eli doesn't have a high completion %. His highest single season % has been 63%, which is above average but not elite. Last year, in his best season, he completed only 61% of his passes... less than Josh Freeman, Matt Hasselbeck, Alex Smith, and Matt Ryan, and slightly more than Carson Palmer and Matt Moore. Over 16 games, Eli averaged only 1 more pass than Romo did in 14.5 games (two more if you're really picky and say 15 games), so it's not like he was wildly chucking the ball much more than Romo might have been, yet Romo finished with a 66.3% completion percentage.
What kind of passes are you talking about? We were only talking about Kevin Gilbrides insistance on either forcing the run or forcing Eli to throw a 40 yard pass. Plus i don't hold too much weight in his 2011 season completion % because he had no help at all from his team when passing, being forced to constantly try and catch up, no protection from his OL and in the couple of first games no receiver core other than Nicks.
Hey byrne, as good looking as you are, maybe you should read my posts before trying to start a conversation with me. I'm very approchable so you don't have to make stuff out of nothing. Never compared Eli to them, never mentioned any of them and i wasn't even trying to disprove or argue what killah was saying. I was talking about Eli and his situation alone. When i read killas post i was trying to clarify Elis situation independent of anyone elses'.
Just stay cool and don't get nervous around me.
Just stay cool and don't get nervous around me.
Killah, repeating is a huge step forward. Brees 34/17 34/11 in his 7th and 8th seasons actually playing at 29-30 (and 3rd & 4th with New Orleans, so it was not right away) was when he made the jump to elite. Romo repeating last season in his 6th & 7th seasons actually playing at 31-32 would represent a similar jump to elite at a pretty similar age and pretty similar career point. Obviously they do some other things differently, but considering the low play years of wear and tear on his body, Romo might be able to play at a high level until about 40, so if this year is his jump to elite it is a really big deal for the sport/Cowboys.
Romo has low wear and tear because he hasn't had any significant injuries and has a relatively low sack count. Just because he's had a couple of unfortunate small injuries doesn't mean he's almost done. Also the fact that he hasn't been part of any deep playoff runs is a blessing in disguise because his body hasn't had to undertake a really long season yet. The problem with Romo is he's been statistically excellent his whole career, but something we can't quantify is holding him back. Maybe it's luck? Maybe it's bad ownership? Bad coaching? Whatever it is we don't know, but there is no reason why Romo isn't talented enough to win a super bowl. One could make the argument that he is ALREADY an elite QB by his stats, but obviously we have to take more into account than that.
However, I don't think this is the year Romo "makes the jump". In fact, I don't think he ever will to be honest. He's certainly good enough to, but I'm convinced that whatever hidden factor has plagued his career so far will not go away, and he'll finish his career on a team that just couldn't get over the hump.
However, I don't think this is the year Romo "makes the jump". In fact, I don't think he ever will to be honest. He's certainly good enough to, but I'm convinced that whatever hidden factor has plagued his career so far will not go away, and he'll finish his career on a team that just couldn't get over the hump.
Didn't you watch yesterdays game? It is obvious that the Cowboys are legitimate super bowl contenders now... Never mind that the Giants were playing at home(terrible home team), with a retarted OC, were favorites to win the game(terrible favorite team) and started their 5th string CB. Who then goes and gets injured.
To be honest Romo is probably the better of the 2nd tier QBs(Eli, Rivers and him) but in the end is a poor mans Aaron Rodgers. Just how Eli is a poor mans Peyton. And the thing you are talking about is the fact that he has not won anything. Which is not his fault. He would be looked at way differently if does win the SB though. But it's clear he will never reach the Peyton/Brady/Rodgers level(i don't consider Brees in their level).
To be honest Romo is probably the better of the 2nd tier QBs(Eli, Rivers and him) but in the end is a poor mans Aaron Rodgers. Just how Eli is a poor mans Peyton. And the thing you are talking about is the fact that he has not won anything. Which is not his fault. He would be looked at way differently if does win the SB though. But it's clear he will never reach the Peyton/Brady/Rodgers level(i don't consider Brees in their level).
Brees 8-8, 2-9, 11-4, 9-7, 10-6, 7-9, 8-8 [55-51]
Romo 6-4, 13-3, 8-5, 11-5, 1-5, 8-8 [47-30]
Then the next season Brees won a Super Bowl, and I am not saying that will happen this year or anything, but you are buying into a false dichotomy WaterBomb, and I do not get why anyone buys into it...the NFL is a team game, team success matters, and Romo is not in control of everything that happens. Typically a high level QB can create some consistency, but the false expectation of magical consecutive 12-4 seasons that Manning created (the best QB of all time, probably) or that Brady created (backed by the best defense in the league for every season of his early development) has led to a crazy lack of understanding of how this sport fucking works. Something like even a 35/15 season [+4 TD/+5 INT over last season] this year would make less than 9-7 basically impossible but it does not guarantee 12-4, right? That does not mean that the QB just "did not get something" or that he is "lacking some winning edge". It means games come down to more than quarterbacks no matter what people want to believe.
If Romo made the jump it was last season and already happened. I am convinced it did, other people are free to bet differently.
Romo 6-4, 13-3, 8-5, 11-5, 1-5, 8-8 [47-30]
Then the next season Brees won a Super Bowl, and I am not saying that will happen this year or anything, but you are buying into a false dichotomy WaterBomb, and I do not get why anyone buys into it...the NFL is a team game, team success matters, and Romo is not in control of everything that happens. Typically a high level QB can create some consistency, but the false expectation of magical consecutive 12-4 seasons that Manning created (the best QB of all time, probably) or that Brady created (backed by the best defense in the league for every season of his early development) has led to a crazy lack of understanding of how this sport fucking works. Something like even a 35/15 season [+4 TD/+5 INT over last season] this year would make less than 9-7 basically impossible but it does not guarantee 12-4, right? That does not mean that the QB just "did not get something" or that he is "lacking some winning edge". It means games come down to more than quarterbacks no matter what people want to believe.
If Romo made the jump it was last season and already happened. I am convinced it did, other people are free to bet differently.
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