This is basically the reason why tornadus-t isnt uber. It is not hard to predict and land a hit on it. Even with regenerator it will need to come in again to probably rocks and face another hit. It cant keep taking hits. The biggest assumption in this thread is that tornadus can waltz right in and start spamming hurricane with no drawback.. That is simply not true. At least for me it has to work to get in and work to survive. Also the bird hates priority as it removes its u-turn capabilities. If you are a good battler and dont play pokemon like rock paper scissors with pictures then you can beat this threat. There are alot more pokemon that I am scared of in this metagame. One of them is victini in the sun and choice band terrakion. Not to say they are uber but they both can beat torn-t one on one.
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np: BW OU Suspect Testing Round 9 - Rock You Like a Hurricane
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This is basically the reason why tornadus-t isnt uber. It is not hard to predict and land a hit on it. Even with regenerator it will need to come in again to probably rocks and face another hit. It cant keep taking hits. The biggest assumption in this thread is that tornadus can waltz right in and start spamming hurricane with no drawback.. That is simply not true. At least for me it has to work to get in and work to survive. Also the bird hates priority as it removes its u-turn capabilities. If you are a good battler and dont play pokemon like rock paper scissors with pictures then you can beat this threat. There are alot more pokemon that I am scared of in this metagame. One of them is victini in the sun and choice band terrakion. Not to say they are uber but they both can beat torn-t one on one.
Why people keep bringing ice shard in this discussion? And lol Jolteon which im sure is koed by focus blast.
^^^^^^^^^ This because we have never tested a poke with Regenarator before as Ho-oh does not need to be tested since it is the only uber with Regenerator. Listen saying this is like not giving a valid reason as to why it should stay in OU, I mean disagreeing with everyone who thinks that Tornadus should be banned is not contributing to the conversation, so please stop trying to shoot people down just because YOU like the poke and do try to tell me, your not shooting people down as I recall BIG BOYS PLAY OU, Well little boys try to intimidate people and shoot them down.
That is a stupid question because every pokemon can switch out unless an ability or move is stopping it. If I get close combated by a terrakion it can switch out next move. You need to learn the mechanics of the game before you ask silly questions like that.
Yes there was!!!!
Swift Swimmers were mindless! Press a button. Banned.
Blaziken - faster than everything non scarf with just a Protect. No support needed. All it needed was Protect and it was set up. It could boost with Swords Dance if needed. Banned.
Excadrill - again, set up with just Sand and faster than most scarfers. Excadrill was mainly a bitch because it could Swords Dance and Rapid Spin on the same set. It swept offense shitless. Against stall, it could simply remove anything they did with a Spin and you couldn't spinblock it! Banned.
Deoxys-S - Press the right move and offensive teams were swept. No support necessary Made that entire playstyle not viable. Banned.
Manaphy - Tail Glow + Perfect coverage and base 100 stats. No support necessary and few type weaknesses (Water and STAB Surf makes Celebi jealous). Banned.
Darkrai - Dark Void, Nasty Plot, Dark Pulse, faster than everything in OU? LOL. Banned.
Skymin - Serene Grace, Leech Seed, faster than everything in OU? Banned.
I'm just comparing the reasonings, not jus the pokemon!
Notice a trend? None of them needed support to tax entire playstyles or half of the damn metagame. Tornadus-T can't even be effective without weather (support) and STILL needs help pulling off a sweep.
I think he is referring to Regenerator in the Switching Out comment there.
STOP USING 1 vs 1 sanarios my goodness its a 6 vs 6 battle. Now if you see a priority coming as a good battler you just hard swich, I mean it still gets the regenarator right. How many OU pokes carry priority anyway, Scizor,Breloom,Mamo,and Weavile are the only really common pokes so no hard to hard swich out.
...I didn't ask a question. Obviously switching out is a big factor for Tornadus-T because it has Regenerator. Please try to use your brain before trying to criticize one of my posts.
Swift swimmers, Excadrill, and Manaphy needed weather support to sweep.
Tornadus-T isn't a sweeper, its a wallbreaker. While it does have counters, it's ability, Regenerator, allows it to beat them.
It still wouldn't make sense. If we decide uber based on speed then everything would eventually be banned. It is OKAY to have a pokemon that can kill things.
re: raikoulover you seem to have ignored the fact that manaphy, excadrill, and drizzle swimmers all required weather to support, just like tornadus. you also use "scarfers and weavile and jolteon" as arguments against me pointing out how fast torn-t is and then list Darkrai as "faster than everything in OU"
i will take your arguments more seriously once you stop being hypocritical.
i will take your arguments more seriously once you stop being hypocritical.
Tornadus is the same with or without rain its just hurricance is less accurate, so stop acting that its a defferent pokemon or moves change because they dont, infact its better for it as heat wave helps destroy steels and it could be used as a scout with air slash still has an accurate stab move
The type coverage and Base Power of Hurricane, combined with Tornadus-T's good Special Attack stat and high Speed stat, significantly reduce its pool of offensive switch-ins. Its Speed stat alone significantly reduces its pool of revenge killers. It is difficult to deal with Tornadus-T offensively. The only viable options are Choice Scarfers, sub-par Pokemon such as Jolteon and Weavile, and Ice Shard. The risk/reward associated within these strategies is skewed in the opponent's favor: in general, a competent opponent will have a safe switch available that is not only low risk, but will also let him/her maintain momentum, because most of these Pokemon are weak and easily wallable and are handled in the process of dealing with more prominent threats, such as Thundurus-T. There are very few exceptions, and these few exceptions are, to me, not enough.
Regenerator makes Tornadus-T difficult to handle defensively. Not only is its pool of counters small, but it is also difficult to punish through passive damage. It is even more difficult to maintain momentum with these counters than it is with the aforementioned offensive checks.
It is my opinion that these characteristics make Tornadus-T broken.
Ban Tornadus-T pls.
Swift Swimmers were the only thing I listed dependent on Rain. Swift Swimmers had BETTER type coverage than Tornadus-T, outsped EVERYTHING (including Scarfers), AND had DOUBLE STAB on Water moves to boot. Furthermore, you could STACK your team with MULTIPLE swift swimmers. Therefore, SWIFT SWIM was banned in conjunction with rain. That is the only weather dependent ban we have so far. Nothing else is too overwhelming at the moment because you can just change the damn weather. The advantage of multiple swift swimmers was way too great for the metagame and it single handedly made Ferrothorn #1 in usage to tone them down (who was overrun by multiple users), which meant they centralized the metagame.
Tornadus-T is good, but hardly a metagame centralizing force. Tornadus-T OR it's counters aren't highly used. That isn't necessarily a case for not-Uber, but it is indicative of its effect on the Metagame. Basically, unless this thing is whored on every time, why are we really banning it? If it is so damn good most teams would center around Tornadus-T or countering it and they just aren't.
If you actually comprehend what I am saying I am one of the only people in this thread posting like 12 pokemon are in a battle. This metagame has too many threats for a pokemon to come in and start spamming focus blast.... That is the arguement for torn t. People are actually calling for torn-t to be uber because it can use focus blast to get some 2hkos. I think competitive pokemon has come to far to be this shallow about suspect test. You know what other pokemon has a base 120 stab? thunder-T. Thunderus-T can come in just as easily and throw out thunder with the dual threat of paralysis. It also gets volt switch and fucking focus blast for you people who want him to die. How come no one talks about that?
You ask a question. It was in error because you didn't have a question mark. Regenerator isnt a big deal as rocks + life orb + residual damage and possible status will wear it down. If you have a choice scarfed pokemon you can easily beat it in the end game.
Cause Thundurus-t is much slower, doesnt have regenerator, doesnt have Hurricane (yes Hurricane>Thunder). You think regenerator inst a big deal? Have you ever tried using a regenerator poke?
The difference between Thunderous and Tornadus is speed, better stab, and regenerator. That alone makes that comparison pointless.
PLUS U-Turn beats Volt Swich
I dont understand what you mean by offensive switch ins... Many things that are offensive usually have moves that fragile pokemon cannot switch into like terrakion and close combat for instance. In fact most pokemon that counter torn-t are completely obliterated by terrakion. On the fact that it cant even get through a handful of very common pokemon is the reason why it is not uber. The reason why you want it uber is that you cant play rock paper scissors with it. You want tornadus to have 3-4 counters that you can switch into that is faster and stronger. But what about those pokemon? How will those pokemon be countered? Rock paper scissors is not the nature of the metagame and it has never been. You got to think and make good decisions long term during the battle. That is essentially why new players are knocking off seasoned vets so easily. We have created a metagame and a thinking style of everything has to be counter-able thrice over defensively and offensively.
Please don't put words in my mouth. I do not want any of what you said; the only thing you can assume that I want is to ban Tornadus-T pls.
With all due respect, you completely butchered my argument and ignored the part where I mentioned that hard countering Tornadus is difficult due to Regenerator. I'm honestly really disappointed right now, because I do not want to be misrepresented as what you have made me out to be.
Lol I'm not trying to seem like an ass, but how does that mean anything O.o Genesect was in OU, so arguably for its suspect test, you could've reiterated 'It's already OU therefore it's balanced npnp."
Could you people define over-centralizing the metagame? I'd just like to clarify that it means what I think means before I write a bit more.
It's just that you guys are listing the (few) 'counters' to Tornadus-T and it gives me the sense that you expect every team in OU to have those counters and/or a weather starter that isn't rain just to counter Tornadus-T.
...Also, please don't compare Jolteon with Tornadus-T because I'm pretty sure you guys are aware of how Jolteon sucks lol
Edit: If Jolteon has a spammable Base 120 STAB move that is only resisted by Electric and Steels in OU, has longevity, and a more reliable way of gaining momentum, then sure, let's ban Jolteon :D
Here is my question, with all of his defenses in the 70-80 range, bad defensive typing, and neediness with rain, why should torn be banned? Think about it. He is weak to major coverage types electric and ice, on top of being weak to the common stealth rock. So he switches in and takes 25% damage from stealth rock. Most people on here have been talking about how he can u-turn with regenorator and heal that off. They are forgeting that you can't switch in and attack at the same time. He switches in and takes 25% on top of whatever attack your opponent dishes out. That could be freaking body slam or a bolt/beam attack that could screw that bird over. On top of that, his defs don't scream bulk compared to most. There is no reason to ban that. Torn is calm and composed while atacking, and a chicken while it switches in. Terrakion, Jirachi, rotom-w, Keldeo w/ hp ice, and many pokes are examples that could be threatened to switch, and could put major dents into Torn, all being somewhat common.
What's with these posts saying that you need to switch Tornadus-T into an attack o_o Genesect couldn't switch in to anything barring either a U-turn, a Bullet Punch, or an Ice Beam of some kind. If you're switching in your Tornadus-T into a Jirachi or something with BoltBeam coverage, then I don't think you're doing it right...
@Smashbros: Signal Beam isn't a bad move considering how Celebi would otherwise laugh at Jolteon.
People seem to forget that SR, + Attack + Uturn + Regenerator is actually a negative in net damage
I personally think that it's okay for Tornadus-T to spam U-turns in order to seize the momentum for most of the game and only coming out to clean up during late mid /late game. We're not arguing for Tornadus-T's ability to spam Hurricane alone, but that its fast U-turns completely steal the momentum away from whoever the Torn-T's opponent is. It ultimately results in one team having a small advantage because of their offensive pressure/initiative.
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