Yeah, Druddigon should DEFINITELY not get Dynamic Punch and No Guard, I'd give it Cross Chop with No Guard or something like that, good enough imo. But I think Fighting-types are fine atm. I'd worry about overpowering typings (Fire and possibly Flying) getting nerfs and underpowering typings (Ice, Poison, possibly Rock and etc) getting buffs, if anything on the typing spectrum.
-
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DuskMod: A major modification to the standard metagame
- Thread starter Dusk209
- Start date
Yeah, Druddigon should DEFINITELY not get Dynamic Punch and No Guard, I'd give it Cross Chop with No Guard or something like that, good enough imo. But I think Fighting-types are fine atm. I'd worry about overpowering typings (Fire and possibly Flying) getting nerfs and underpowering typings (Ice, Poison, possibly Rock and etc) getting buffs, if anything on the typing spectrum.
So... How does that Swift idea sound?
can't get on either at the moment
(EDIT http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3477680 though aren't these different servers? Me no good with know computer)
Meanwhile I've been doing some number crunching. My customized BST calc puts Watchog at #16 out of 171 pokemon in DM, and that's including Meloetta-P as a seperate 'mon. I want to try Watchog now; it does have the third fastest sleep I believe, after Prankster Jynx's Lovely Kiss and Gengar's Hypnosis.
Some pokemon with sadly low BSTs: Cofagrigus, Hitmontop, Stunfisk, Steelix, Venomoth, Beheeyem, Fearow. But it's not like they need urgent help; with 171 pokes in the meta, at a much denser power spread than in standard, we're already practically flooded with viable options.
(EDIT http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3477680 though aren't these different servers? Me no good with know computer)
Meanwhile I've been doing some number crunching. My customized BST calc puts Watchog at #16 out of 171 pokemon in DM, and that's including Meloetta-P as a seperate 'mon. I want to try Watchog now; it does have the third fastest sleep I believe, after Prankster Jynx's Lovely Kiss and Gengar's Hypnosis.
Some pokemon with sadly low BSTs: Cofagrigus, Hitmontop, Stunfisk, Steelix, Venomoth, Beheeyem, Fearow. But it's not like they need urgent help; with 171 pokes in the meta, at a much denser power spread than in standard, we're already practically flooded with viable options.
Why does tangrowth have drill run and why does escavalier have bullet punch when it has no hands ?
Because DuskMod doesn't care about flavor when it doesn't need to.
Thanks for clearing that up.
I'm actually really impressed by Gyarados in DuskMod. All it gained was an actual usable Flying STAB move (rot in hell, Bounce) and it's now a really impressive Moxie Sweeper. It's so nice when things slot into place like that. I only found out about Water/Flying's superb coverage after being swept by a Gyarados and it makes me wonder how good a specially based Water/Flying mon would be. One that's not Swanna, I mean.
Also, I had thought regarding Normalise. What if it gave an Adaptability bonus in addition to its usual effects (and was given to things other than than Delcatty.) With a decent movepool, it might offer a nice Risk/Reward dynamic.
Also, I had thought regarding Normalise. What if it gave an Adaptability bonus in addition to its usual effects (and was given to things other than than Delcatty.) With a decent movepool, it might offer a nice Risk/Reward dynamic.
Ninetales seems like a Pokemon that should have Moonlight(because it is a fox, the Drought thing is secondary), not Recover.
An ability like Drought can't be considered secondary to flavor. Getting more recovery needs a more compelling reason than because it's a fox. It would only serve to slightly increase the importance of weather.
I am actually afraid DM as it stands now is somewhat centralized. At least one of Sawsbuck, Zapdos, Gyarados, Escavalier, and Darmanitan is almost necessary, and stall is not very easy to play correctly. The mons you mentioned could help boost stall, so the do need attention.
I'd agree those are kind of problem Pokemon. Sawsbuck can pull of an Extreme Killer set and can even actually use Chlorophyll (I know it's shocking, I forgot about it too.) Ain't nothing outspeeding it in Sun. Zapdos' power is kind of obvious since it's like a Thundurus that has Hurricane and can summons Rain. As for Gyarados, I dunno. There is no denying that it's powerful, but it didn't get buffed much. Well, I suppose that one buff was worth a lot. Giving Escavalier Bullet Punch kinda made it encroach on Scizor's territory, and Edgequake (well, Drilledge) was really a bit much. And Darmanitan-Z is a super bulky nuke that can use Calm Mind to become more bulky and more nukey. Or maybe it'll just nuke you straight away. Of course, no special attacker is harming it after a boost so guess well.
Mmm, well it's difficult to comment on. Centralization, frankly, is probably inevitable on a statistical level because of the small number of people and therefore teams. I've made teams and had success with and without one of those five pokemon, and they aren't the first five I would list as most necessary. From each of our limited perspectives different pokemon might appear to be "almost necessary," simply because they haven't faced a wide enough array of opponents. What does seem common to our limited experiences is that stall is no good.
The true degree of centralization relative to Standard OU is impossible to determine unless DM's playerbase equals Standard's. But I think it must be less centralized since UU, RU, and NU pokes were preferentially buffed (yes there are a few oddballs that need adjusting like Keldeo and Mew getting better buffs than Cofagrigus and Sigilyph). Most of all weather was pulled back significantly, although perhaps not enough yet.
Chlorophyll gives a x1.5 boost now. Anything with a scarf and 102 or more speed can outspeed it. As for Escavalier, yeah it got good buffs. It's RU.
My point was that a lot of the things fast enough to outspeed it in Sun aren't the kind of things that could take an ExtremeSpeed. As for Escavalier, we ARE talking about something stronger and bulkier than Scizor.
Pretty sure Crobat, Aerodactyl, Scyther, Gengar, Durant, the Musketeers (minus Viriz maybe), Sawk, Primeape, Archeops, and Leavany aren't OHKO'd by unboosted Xspeed. Now at +2 it's a different matter, but my point wasn't that the best way to handle ChloroSawsbuck was more speed, just pointing out that "ain't nothing outspeeding under sun" was incorrect.
It's debatable if Escavalier is "stronger" than Technician Scizor. Scizor also gets U-turn and Roost and outspeeds about 19% more pokes without investment and quite a few more with investment. I agree that Escavalier is good. I don't agree that it is one of five "almost necessary" pokemon.
Due to issues with no-ip, the server is now hosted at http://play.pokemonshowdown.com/~~24.188.20.224/lobby. I am also looking to do some updates to DuskMod itself in the future, because currently it's very messy and has some dumb things (extremespeed sawsbuck with a great atk stat? What was I thinking?)
I worry that not a lot of people have seen that the server was moved. Also, if you're considering removing some changes, why not re-nerf Explosion? I personally feel that it doesn't really promote skillful play.
Haven't played in a while, but have been poking at my BST formula periodically and I think it's in a pretty good form now. Physical bulk is the square root of the product of uninvested HP and uninvested Def, similarly for special bulk. Attack is the higher uninvested attacking stat multiplied by a factor related to the lower uninvested attacking stat. Speed is the highest uninvested speed in the tier (electrode's 336) multiplied by the speed percentile of the pokemon.
Edit how do I shot HTML? Well here is a list of the totals.
HTML:
<!DOCTYPE html>
<html>
<body>
<table border="1">
<tr>
<th>Pokemon</th>
<th>Physical Bulk</th>
<th>Special Bulk</th>
<th>Attacking</th>
<th>Speed</th>
<th>Total</th>
</tr>
<tr><td> Meloetta-P </td><td> 271.4 </td><td> 254.5 </td><td> 292.0 </td><td> 322.2 </td><td> 1140.2 </td></tr>
<tr><td> Tornadus-T </td><td> 235.8 </td><td> 254.1 </td><td> 295.2 </td><td> 318.2 </td><td> 1103.4 </td></tr>
<tr><td> Terrakion </td><td> 264.1 </td><td> 264.1 </td><td> 294.0 </td><td> 273.2 </td><td> 1095.4 </td></tr>
<tr><td> Keldeo </td><td> 264.1 </td><td> 264.1 </td><td> 294.0 </td><td> 273.2 </td><td> 1095.4 </td></tr>
<tr><td> Tornadus </td><td> 229.4 </td><td> 242.1 </td><td> 327.2 </td><td> 296.7 </td><td> 1095.4 </td></tr>
<tr><td> Thundurus </td><td> 229.4 </td><td> 242.1 </td><td> 327.2 </td><td> 296.7 </td><td> 1095.4 </td></tr>
<tr><td> Virizion </td><td> 241.1 </td><td> 308.2 </td><td> 259.2 </td><td> 273.2 </td><td> 1081.6 </td></tr>
<tr><td> Cobalion </td><td> 308.2 </td><td> 241.1 </td><td> 259.2 </td><td> 273.2 </td><td> 1081.6 </td></tr>
<tr><td> Landorus </td><td> 262.5 </td><td> 250.0 </td><td> 327.2 </td><td> 236.2 </td><td> 1076.0 </td></tr>
<tr><td> Durant </td><td> 279.7 </td><td> 224.9 </td><td> 276.0 </td><td> 284.9 </td><td> 1065.6 </td></tr>
<tr><td> Mew </td><td> 283.7 </td><td> 283.7 </td><td> 283.2 </td><td> 209.0 </td><td> 1059.6 </td></tr>
<tr><td> Victini </td><td> 283.7 </td><td> 283.7 </td><td> 283.2 </td><td> 209.0 </td><td> 1059.6 </td></tr>
<tr><td> Tauros </td><td> 256.4 </td><td> 213.1 </td><td> 296.0 </td><td> 286.9 </td><td> 1052.5 </td></tr>
<tr><td> Watchog </td><td> 252.4 </td><td> 252.4 </td><td> 271.2 </td><td> 273.2 </td><td> 1049.1 </td></tr>
<tr><td> Hydreigon </td><td> 263.3 </td><td> 263.3 </td><td> 311.2 </td><td> 209.0 </td><td> 1046.8 </td></tr>
<tr><td> Genesect </td><td> 252.9 </td><td> 252.9 </td><td> 331.2 </td><td> 205.0 </td><td> 1042.0 </td></tr>
<tr><td> Crobat </td><td> 246.9 </td><td> 246.9 </td><td> 227.2 </td><td> 324.2 </td><td> 1045.2 </td></tr>
<tr><td> Scyther </td><td> 249.0 </td><td> 249.0 </td><td> 256.0 </td><td> 286.9 </td><td> 1041.0 </td></tr>
<tr><td> Zebstrika </td><td> 217.1 </td><td> 217.1 </td><td> 295.2 </td><td> 310.5 </td><td> 1039.9 </td></tr>
<tr><td> Espeon </td><td> 205.6 </td><td> 247.5 </td><td> 296.0 </td><td> 286.9 </td><td> 1036.0 </td></tr>
<tr><td> Leavanny </td><td> 241.4 </td><td> 267.4 </td><td> 275.2 </td><td> 252.0 </td><td> 1036.0 </td></tr>
<tr><td> Thundurus-T </td><td> 229.4 </td><td> 242.1 </td><td> 327.2 </td><td> 236.2 </td><td> 1034.9 </td></tr>
<tr><td> Cryogonal </td><td> 242.9 </td><td> 308.4 </td><td> 226.0 </td><td> 255.7 </td><td> 1033.0 </td></tr>
<tr><td> Jolteon </td><td> 205.6 </td><td> 247.5 </td><td> 256.0 </td><td> 324.2 </td><td> 1033.3 </td></tr>
<tr><td> Sawk </td><td> 242.9 </td><td> 242.9 </td><td> 286.0 </td><td> 255.7 </td><td> 1027.5 </td></tr>
<tr><td> Aerodactyl </td><td> 223.5 </td><td> 236.6 </td><td> 246.0 </td><td> 324.2 </td><td> 1030.4 </td></tr>
<tr><td> Raticate </td><td> 234.7 </td><td> 234.7 </td><td> 246.0 </td><td> 310.5 </td><td> 1025.8 </td></tr>
<tr><td> Alakazam </td><td> 177.8 </td><td> 227.4 </td><td> 306.0 </td><td> 310.5 </td><td> 1021.7 </td></tr>
<tr><td> Leafeon </td><td> 205.6 </td><td> 212.1 </td><td> 283.2 </td><td> 324.2 </td><td> 1025.2 </td></tr>
<tr><td> Persian </td><td> 232.6 </td><td> 232.6 </td><td> 251.2 </td><td> 304.4 </td><td> 1020.9 </td></tr>
<tr><td> Simipour </td><td> 275.2 </td><td> 281.0 </td><td> 227.2 </td><td> 236.2 </td><td> 1019.7 </td></tr>
<tr><td> Meloetta-A </td><td> 254.5 </td><td> 315.6 </td><td> 292.0 </td><td> 156.2 </td><td> 1018.3 </td></tr>
<tr><td> Landorus-T </td><td> 262.5 </td><td> 250.0 </td><td> 327.2 </td><td> 177.7 </td><td> 1017.5 </td></tr>
<tr><td> Archeops </td><td> 219.8 </td><td> 219.8 </td><td> 306.0 </td><td> 271.5 </td><td> 1017.1 </td></tr>
<tr><td> Zapdos </td><td> 257.1 </td><td> 263.3 </td><td> 287.2 </td><td> 209.0 </td><td> 1016.7 </td></tr>
<tr><td> Primeape </td><td> 252.1 </td><td> 252.1 </td><td> 256.0 </td><td> 255.7 </td><td> 1015.8 </td></tr>
<tr><td> Scolipede </td><td> 242.9 </td><td> 213.1 </td><td> 256.0 </td><td> 300.7 </td><td> 1012.7 </td></tr>
<tr><td> Starmie </td><td> 231.9 </td><td> 231.9 </td><td> 243.2 </td><td> 304.4 </td><td> 1011.4 </td></tr>
<tr><td> Haxorus </td><td> 251.6 </td><td> 227.1 </td><td> 330.0 </td><td> 199.2 </td><td> 1007.9 </td></tr>
<tr><td> Serperior </td><td> 246.4 </td><td> 254.2 </td><td> 255.2 </td><td> 252.0 </td><td> 1007.8 </td></tr>
<tr><td> Electrode </td><td> 214.3 </td><td> 226.2 </td><td> 236.0 </td><td> 334.0 </td><td> 1010.5 </td></tr>
<tr><td> Gengar </td><td> 201.8 </td><td> 220.3 </td><td> 296.0 </td><td> 286.9 </td><td> 1005.1 </td></tr>
<tr><td> Liepard </td><td> 234.7 </td><td> 228.6 </td><td> 271.2 </td><td> 269.5 </td><td> 1004.0 </td></tr>
<tr><td> Pidgeot </td><td> 241.3 </td><td> 241.3 </td><td> 271.2 </td><td> 250.0 </td><td> 1003.7 </td></tr>
<tr><td> Accelgor </td><td> 208.9 </td><td> 208.9 </td><td> 256.0 </td><td> 332.0 </td><td> 1005.8 </td></tr>
<tr><td> Cinccino </td><td> 213.1 </td><td> 213.1 </td><td> 256.0 </td><td> 320.2 </td><td> 1002.3 </td></tr>
<tr><td> Volcarona </td><td> 227.2 </td><td> 276.6 </td><td> 286.0 </td><td> 209.0 </td><td> 998.8 </td></tr>
<tr><td> Krookodile </td><td> 241.4 </td><td> 241.4 </td><td> 276.0 </td><td> 236.2 </td><td> 994.9 </td></tr>
<tr><td> Dodrio </td><td> 209.4 </td><td> 222.4 </td><td> 276.0 </td><td> 286.9 </td><td> 994.7 </td></tr>
<tr><td> Keldeo-R </td><td> 248.1 </td><td> 248.1 </td><td> 319.2 </td><td> 177.7 </td><td> 993.2 </td></tr>
<tr><td> Mienshao </td><td> 205.6 </td><td> 236.3 </td><td> 295.2 </td><td> 255.7 </td><td> 992.8 </td></tr>
<tr><td> Excadrill </td><td> 237.3 </td><td> 237.3 </td><td> 306.0 </td><td> 209.0 </td><td> 989.6 </td></tr>
<tr><td> Butterfree </td><td> 216.7 </td><td> 255.0 </td><td> 256.0 </td><td> 255.7 </td><td> 983.4 </td></tr>
<tr><td> Zoroark </td><td> 209.4 </td><td> 209.4 </td><td> 307.2 </td><td> 255.7 </td><td> 981.6 </td></tr>
<tr><td> Articuno </td><td> 275.2 </td><td> 303.0 </td><td> 255.2 </td><td> 148.2 </td><td> 981.6 </td></tr>
<tr><td> Bellossom </td><td> 244.8 </td><td> 283.4 </td><td> 243.2 </td><td> 209.0 </td><td> 980.4 </td></tr>
<tr><td> Moltres </td><td> 263.3 </td><td> 257.1 </td><td> 303.2 </td><td> 156.2 </td><td> 979.9 </td></tr>
<tr><td> Porygon2* </td><td> 317.4 </td><td> 338.8 </td><td> 258.4 </td><td> 64.2 </td><td> 978.8 </td></tr>
<tr><td> Galvantula </td><td> 213.1 </td><td> 226.3 </td><td> 266.0 </td><td> 273.2 </td><td> 978.5 </td></tr>
<tr><td> Vileplume </td><td> 244.8 </td><td> 250.7 </td><td> 276.8 </td><td> 205.0 </td><td> 977.3 </td></tr>
<tr><td> Dragonite </td><td> 270.2 </td><td> 276.1 </td><td> 310.4 </td><td> 116.9 </td><td> 973.6 </td></tr>
<tr><td> Charizard </td><td> 222.2 </td><td> 249.0 </td><td> 293.6 </td><td> 209.0 </td><td> 973.8 </td></tr>
<tr><td> Whimsicott </td><td> 231.9 </td><td> 220.3 </td><td> 210.4 </td><td> 308.4 </td><td> 971.1 </td></tr>
<tr><td> Beedrill </td><td> 255.0 </td><td> 216.7 </td><td> 286.0 </td><td> 209.0 </td><td> 966.7 </td></tr>
<tr><td> Arcanine </td><td> 250.8 </td><td> 250.8 </td><td> 279.2 </td><td> 183.5 </td><td> 964.3 </td></tr>
<tr><td> Alomomola </td><td> 303.8 </td><td> 253.1 </td><td> 196.0 </td><td> 209.0 </td><td> 961.9 </td></tr>
<tr><td> Hitmonlee </td><td> 223.3 </td><td> 305.6 </td><td> 276.0 </td><td> 154.2 </td><td> 959.0 </td></tr>
<tr><td> Gyarados </td><td> 253.4 </td><td> 279.5 </td><td> 286.0 </td><td> 138.4 </td><td> 957.3 </td></tr>
<tr><td> Tentacruel </td><td> 230.8 </td><td> 297.7 </td><td> 219.2 </td><td> 209.0 </td><td> 956.7 </td></tr>
<tr><td> Rapidash </td><td> 218.4 </td><td> 230.5 </td><td> 251.2 </td><td> 255.7 </td><td> 955.8 </td></tr>
<tr><td> Beartic </td><td> 279.2 </td><td> 272.7 </td><td> 286.0 </td><td> 116.9 </td><td> 954.9 </td></tr>
<tr><td> Darmanitan-Z </td><td> 293.8 </td><td> 293.8 </td><td> 316.0 </td><td> 50.7 </td><td> 954.4 </td></tr>
<tr><td> Electivire </td><td> 222.4 </td><td> 244.8 </td><td> 302.0 </td><td> 183.5 </td><td> 952.7 </td></tr>
<tr><td> Darmanitan </td><td> 226.4 </td><td> 226.4 </td><td> 316.0 </td><td> 183.5 </td><td> 952.2 </td></tr>
<tr><td> Arbok </td><td> 250.7 </td><td> 244.8 </td><td> 250.0 </td><td> 202.9 </td><td> 948.5 </td></tr>
<tr><td> Flareon </td><td> 205.6 </td><td> 263.4 </td><td> 296.0 </td><td> 183.5 </td><td> 948.5 </td></tr>
<tr><td> Sawsbuck </td><td> 209.4 </td><td> 234.7 </td><td> 264.0 </td><td> 236.2 </td><td> 944.3 </td></tr>
<tr><td> Simisage </td><td> 217.1 </td><td> 217.1 </td><td> 271.2 </td><td> 236.2 </td><td> 941.7 </td></tr>
<tr><td> Simisear </td><td> 217.1 </td><td> 217.1 </td><td> 271.2 </td><td> 236.2 </td><td> 941.7 </td></tr>
<tr><td> Vanilluxe </td><td> 249.0 </td><td> 260.8 </td><td> 275.2 </td><td> 156.2 </td><td> 941.3 </td></tr>
<tr><td> Mr. Mime </td><td> 249.0 </td><td> 298.5 </td><td> 236.0 </td><td> 156.2 </td><td> 939.7 </td></tr>
<tr><td> Nidoking </td><td> 255.8 </td><td> 255.8 </td><td> 240.0 </td><td> 183.5 </td><td> 935.1 </td></tr>
<tr><td> Kangaskhan </td><td> 262.3 </td><td> 262.3 </td><td> 226.0 </td><td> 183.5 </td><td> 934.0 </td></tr>
<tr><td> Dugtrio </td><td> 181.0 </td><td> 206.0 </td><td> 236.0 </td><td> 310.5 </td><td> 933.5 </td></tr>
<tr><td> Marowak* </td><td> 272.9 </td><td> 244.8 </td><td> 392.0 </td><td> 25.2 </td><td> 935.0 </td></tr>
<tr><td> Porygon-Z </td><td> 222.4 </td><td> 228.6 </td><td> 326.0 </td><td> 156.2 </td><td> 933.2 </td></tr>
<tr><td> Kingdra </td><td> 256.4 </td><td> 256.4 </td><td> 271.2 </td><td> 148.2 </td><td> 932.3 </td></tr>
<tr><td> Magmortar </td><td> 222.4 </td><td> 256.4 </td><td> 306.0 </td><td> 146.5 </td><td> 931.4 </td></tr>
<tr><td> Venusaur </td><td> 256.8 </td><td> 270.9 </td><td> 259.2 </td><td> 142.5 </td><td> 929.4 </td></tr>
<tr><td> Parasect </td><td> 296.7 </td><td> 267.4 </td><td> 246.0 </td><td> 116.9 </td><td> 927.0 </td></tr>
<tr><td> Kingler </td><td> 268.2 </td><td> 219.8 </td><td> 296.0 </td><td> 142.5 </td><td> 926.5 </td></tr>
<tr><td> Glaceon </td><td> 212.1 </td><td> 205.6 </td><td> 323.2 </td><td> 183.5 </td><td> 924.4 </td></tr>
<tr><td> Raichu </td><td> 224.5 </td><td> 230.5 </td><td> 259.2 </td><td> 209.0 </td><td> 923.2 </td></tr>
<tr><td> Braviary </td><td> 251.8 </td><td> 237.9 </td><td> 276.0 </td><td> 156.2 </td><td> 922.0 </td></tr>
<tr><td> Hitmonchan </td><td> 260.9 </td><td> 299.8 </td><td> 246.0 </td><td> 113.2 </td><td> 919.9 </td></tr>
<tr><td> Ninetales </td><td> 236.6 </td><td> 266.5 </td><td> 207.2 </td><td> 209.0 </td><td> 919.3 </td></tr>
<tr><td> Golduck </td><td> 240.4 </td><td> 242.9 </td><td> 283.2 </td><td> 148.2 </td><td> 914.7 </td></tr>
<tr><td> Sigilyph </td><td> 236.3 </td><td> 236.3 </td><td> 242.0 </td><td> 199.2 </td><td> 913.9 </td></tr>
<tr><td> Nidoqueen </td><td> 267.4 </td><td> 267.4 </td><td> 240.0 </td><td> 138.4 </td><td> 913.2 </td></tr>
<tr><td> Bouffalant </td><td> 285.6 </td><td> 285.6 </td><td> 286.0 </td><td> 50.7 </td><td> 908.0 </td></tr>
<tr><td> Pinsir </td><td> 266.5 </td><td> 255.0 </td><td> 276.0 </td><td> 109.2 </td><td> 906.7 </td></tr>
<tr><td> Emboar </td><td> 288.1 </td><td> 244.8 </td><td> 282.0 </td><td> 91.7 </td><td> 906.7 </td></tr>
<tr><td> Rhyperior </td><td> 331.4 </td><td> 232.7 </td><td> 316.0 </td><td> 25.2 </td><td> 905.3 </td></tr>
<tr><td> Lilligant </td><td> 238.8 </td><td> 238.8 </td><td> 266.0 </td><td> 156.2 </td><td> 899.9 </td></tr>
<tr><td> Swoobat </td><td> 200.4 </td><td> 200.4 </td><td> 196.0 </td><td> 302.7 </td><td> 899.5 </td></tr>
<tr><td> Seismitoad </td><td> 266.0 </td><td> 266.0 </td><td> 259.2 </td><td> 107.2 </td><td> 898.4 </td></tr>
<tr><td> Hypno </td><td> 263.4 </td><td> 282.4 </td><td> 232.0 </td><td> 116.9 </td><td> 894.7 </td></tr>
<tr><td> Samurott </td><td> 261.1 </td><td> 241.4 </td><td> 273.6 </td><td> 116.9 </td><td> 893.0 </td></tr>
<tr><td> Lapras </td><td> 280.3 </td><td> 301.0 </td><td> 247.2 </td><td> 64.2 </td><td> 892.8 </td></tr>
<tr><td> Stoutland </td><td> 259.2 </td><td> 259.2 </td><td> 256.0 </td><td> 116.9 </td><td> 891.3 </td></tr>
<tr><td> Vaporeon </td><td> 250.1 </td><td> 301.0 </td><td> 256.0 </td><td> 82.0 </td><td> 889.1 </td></tr>
<tr><td> Chandelure </td><td> 237.4 </td><td> 237.4 </td><td> 296.0 </td><td> 116.9 </td><td> 887.8 </td></tr>
<tr><td> Clefable </td><td> 272.2 </td><td> 334.6 </td><td> 216.0 </td><td> 64.2 </td><td> 887.0 </td></tr>
<tr><td> Wigglytuff </td><td> 334.6 </td><td> 272.2 </td><td> 216.0 </td><td> 64.2 </td><td> 887.0 </td></tr>
<tr><td> Mandibuzz </td><td> 298.0 </td><td> 285.6 </td><td> 183.2 </td><td> 116.9 </td><td> 883.8 </td></tr>
<tr><td> Poliwrath </td><td> 269.3 </td><td> 250.8 </td><td> 296.0 </td><td> 64.2 </td><td> 880.4 </td></tr>
<tr><td> Unfezant </td><td> 242.9 </td><td> 209.6 </td><td> 246.0 </td><td> 181.4 </td><td> 880.0 </td></tr>
<tr><td> Magnezone </td><td> 273.4 </td><td> 246.4 </td><td> 296.0 </td><td> 64.2 </td><td> 879.9 </td></tr>
<tr><td> Klinklang </td><td> 263.5 </td><td> 231.9 </td><td> 227.2 </td><td> 156.2 </td><td> 878.8 </td></tr>
<tr><td> Blastoise </td><td> 288.4 </td><td> 288.4 </td><td> 236.8 </td><td> 64.2 </td><td> 877.9 </td></tr>
<tr><td> Snorlax </td><td> 276.6 </td><td> 343.5 </td><td> 256.0 </td><td> 5.7 </td><td> 881.9 </td></tr>
<tr><td> Umbreon </td><td> 291.1 </td><td> 313.0 </td><td> 191.2 </td><td> 82.0 </td><td> 877.3 </td></tr>
<tr><td> Blissey </td><td> 190.9 </td><td> 446.3 </td><td> 216.0 </td><td> 25.2 </td><td> 878.5 </td></tr>
<tr><td> Conkeldurr </td><td> 281.6 </td><td> 241.4 </td><td> 316.0 </td><td> 39.0 </td><td> 878.0 </td></tr>
<tr><td> Bisharp </td><td> 273.4 </td><td> 222.4 </td><td> 286.0 </td><td> 91.7 </td><td> 873.5 </td></tr>
<tr><td> Machamp </td><td> 258.5 </td><td> 265.0 </td><td> 296.0 </td><td> 50.7 </td><td> 870.3 </td></tr>
<tr><td> Scizor </td><td> 257.5 </td><td> 234.7 </td><td> 296.0 </td><td> 82.0 </td><td> 870.2 </td></tr>
<tr><td> Garbodor </td><td> 270.9 </td><td> 259.2 </td><td> 247.2 </td><td> 91.7 </td><td> 869.0 </td></tr>
<tr><td> Jynx </td><td> 169.5 </td><td> 247.5 </td><td> 266.0 </td><td> 183.5 </td><td> 866.4 </td></tr>
<tr><td> Gigalith </td><td> 303.4 </td><td> 259.2 </td><td> 306.0 </td><td> 1.7 </td><td> 870.3 </td></tr>
<tr><td> Swanna </td><td> 236.3 </td><td> 245.8 </td><td> 268.0 </td><td> 115.2 </td><td> 865.4 </td></tr>
<tr><td> Pikachu* </td><td> 142.3 </td><td> 156.4 </td><td> 410.3 </td><td> 156.2 </td><td> 865.3 </td></tr>
<tr><td> Sandslash </td><td> 266.5 </td><td> 242.9 </td><td> 246.0 </td><td> 109.2 </td><td> 864.6 </td></tr>
<tr><td> Weezing </td><td> 323.4 </td><td> 254.7 </td><td> 243.2 </td><td> 42.7 </td><td> 864.0 </td></tr>
<tr><td> Carracosta </td><td> 285.5 </td><td> 205.4 </td><td> 281.6 </td><td> 91.7 </td><td> 864.2 </td></tr>
<tr><td> Tangrowth </td><td> 312.3 </td><td> 215.4 </td><td> 291.2 </td><td> 42.7 </td><td> 861.5 </td></tr>
<tr><td> Victreebel </td><td> 223.5 </td><td> 216.7 </td><td> 299.2 </td><td> 116.9 </td><td> 856.4 </td></tr>
<tr><td> Eelektross </td><td> 246.9 </td><td> 246.9 </td><td> 319.2 </td><td> 42.7 </td><td> 855.7 </td></tr>
<tr><td> Exeggutor </td><td> 263.3 </td><td> 263.3 </td><td> 304.8 </td><td> 25.2 </td><td> 856.6 </td></tr>
<tr><td> Seaking </td><td> 249.0 </td><td> 249.0 </td><td> 266.0 </td><td> 89.7 </td><td> 853.7 </td></tr>
<tr><td> Golurk </td><td> 272.9 </td><td> 244.8 </td><td> 284.0 </td><td> 50.7 </td><td> 852.5 </td></tr>
<tr><td> Escavalier </td><td> 262.9 </td><td> 262.9 </td><td> 306.0 </td><td> 21.2 </td><td> 853.0 </td></tr>
<tr><td> Kabutops </td><td> 253.4 </td><td> 214.3 </td><td> 266.0 </td><td> 116.9 </td><td> 850.6 </td></tr>
<tr><td> Throh </td><td> 271.4 </td><td> 295.5 </td><td> 246.0 </td><td> 39.0 </td><td> 851.8 </td></tr>
<tr><td> Gothitelle </td><td> 252.0 </td><td> 268.2 </td><td> 236.0 </td><td> 91.7 </td><td> 847.9 </td></tr>
<tr><td> Politoed </td><td> 244.3 </td><td> 275.2 </td><td> 235.2 </td><td> 91.7 </td><td> 846.5 </td></tr>
<tr><td> Drifblim </td><td> 233.8 </td><td> 252.0 </td><td> 243.2 </td><td> 116.9 </td><td> 846.0 </td></tr>
<tr><td> Chansey* </td><td> 210.3 </td><td> 486.3 </td><td> 106.0 </td><td> 42.7 </td><td> 845.3 </td></tr>
<tr><td> Dewgong </td><td> 253.1 </td><td> 303.4 </td><td> 223.2 </td><td> 64.2 </td><td> 843.9 </td></tr>
<tr><td> Fearow </td><td> 212.1 </td><td> 206.9 </td><td> 216.0 </td><td> 209.0 </td><td> 844.0 </td></tr>
<tr><td> Muk </td><td> 281.6 </td><td> 262.3 </td><td> 263.2 </td><td> 37.0 </td><td> 844.1 </td></tr>
<tr><td> Golem </td><td> 308.2 </td><td> 247.0 </td><td> 256.0 </td><td> 25.2 </td><td> 836.4 </td></tr>
<tr><td> Cloyster </td><td> 308.9 </td><td> 174.3 </td><td> 255.2 </td><td> 91.7 </td><td> 830.1 </td></tr>
<tr><td> Musharna </td><td> 277.2 </td><td> 302.9 </td><td> 250.0 </td><td> 3.7 </td><td> 833.8 </td></tr>
<tr><td> Lickilicky </td><td> 291.9 </td><td> 291.9 </td><td> 239.2 </td><td> 5.7 </td><td> 828.7 </td></tr>
<tr><td> Omastar </td><td> 283.5 </td><td> 222.4 </td><td> 266.0 </td><td> 50.7 </td><td> 822.6 </td></tr>
<tr><td> Heatmor </td><td> 228.6 </td><td> 228.6 </td><td> 282.4 </td><td> 82.0 </td><td> 821.5 </td></tr>
<tr><td> Reuniclus </td><td> 259.1 </td><td> 272.7 </td><td> 286.0 </td><td> 5.7 </td><td> 823.5 </td></tr>
<tr><td> Crustle </td><td> 283.5 </td><td> 257.5 </td><td> 226.0 </td><td> 50.7 </td><td> 817.7 </td></tr>
<tr><td> Druddigon </td><td> 260.8 </td><td> 260.8 </td><td> 276.0 </td><td> 21.2 </td><td> 818.8 </td></tr>
<tr><td> Scrafty </td><td> 268.5 </td><td> 268.5 </td><td> 216.0 </td><td> 62.5 </td><td> 815.5 </td></tr>
<tr><td> Venomoth </td><td> 209.4 </td><td> 228.6 </td><td> 219.2 </td><td> 156.2 </td><td> 813.4 </td></tr>
<tr><td> Jellicent </td><td> 251.8 </td><td> 289.6 </td><td> 207.2 </td><td> 64.2 </td><td> 812.9 </td></tr>
<tr><td> Steelix </td><td> 356.2 </td><td> 238.8 </td><td> 206.0 </td><td> 5.7 </td><td> 806.7 </td></tr>
<tr><td> Hitmontop </td><td> 233.4 </td><td> 248.4 </td><td> 226.0 </td><td> 91.7 </td><td> 799.5 </td></tr>
<tr><td> Beheeyem </td><td> 232.6 </td><td> 256.4 </td><td> 286.0 </td><td> 25.2 </td><td> 800.3 </td></tr>
<tr><td> Ferrothorn </td><td> 293.5 </td><td> 278.3 </td><td> 224.0 </td><td> 0.0 </td><td> 795.8 </td></tr>
<tr><td> Stunfisk </td><td> 270.6 </td><td> 289.8 </td><td> 213.6 </td><td> 19.5 </td><td> 793.5 </td></tr>
<tr><td> Slowking </td><td> 254.7 </td><td> 291.1 </td><td> 243.2 </td><td> 5.7 </td><td> 794.7 </td></tr>
<tr><td> Slowbro </td><td> 291.1 </td><td> 254.7 </td><td> 243.2 </td><td> 5.7 </td><td> 794.7 </td></tr>
<tr><td> Amoonguss </td><td> 254.8 </td><td> 268.9 </td><td> 247.2 </td><td> 5.7 </td><td> 776.7 </td></tr>
<tr><td> Cofagrigus </td><td> 289.5 </td><td> 251.4 </td><td> 226.0 </td><td> 5.7 </td><td> 772.6 </td></tr>
<tr><td> Ditto </td><td> 185.6 </td><td> 185.6 </td><td> 158.4 </td><td> 42.0 </td><td> 571.6 </td></tr>
</table>
</body>
</html>Edit how do I shot HTML? Well here is a list of the totals.
- 1140.2 Meloetta-P
- 1103.4 Tornadus-T
- 1095.4 Terrakion
- 1095.4 Keldeo
- 1095.4 Tornadus
- 1095.4 Thundurus
- 1081.6 Virizion
- 1081.6 Cobalion
- 1076.0 Landorus
- 1065.6 Durant
- 1059.6 Mew
- 1059.6 Victini
- 1052.5 Tauros
- 1049.1 Watchog
- 1046.8 Hydreigon
- 1042.0 Genesect
- 1045.2 Crobat
- 1041.0 Scyther
- 1039.9 Zebstrika
- 1036.0 Espeon
- 1036.0 Leavanny
- 1034.9 Thundurus-T
- 1033.0 Cryogonal
- 1033.3 Jolteon
- 1027.5 Sawk
- 1030.4 Aerodactyl
- 1025.8 Raticate
- 1021.7 Alakazam
- 1025.2 Leafeon
- 1020.9 Persian
- 1019.7 Simipour
- 1018.3 Meloetta-A
- 1017.5 Landorus-T
- 1017.1 Archeops
- 1016.7 Zapdos
- 1015.8 Primeape
- 1012.7 Scolipede
- 1011.4 Starmie
- 1007.9 Haxorus
- 1007.8 Serperior
- 1010.5 Electrode
- 1005.1 Gengar
- 1004.0 Liepard
- 1003.7 Pidgeot
- 1005.8 Accelgor
- 1002.3 Cinccino
- 998.8 Volcarona
- 994.9 Krookodile
- 994.7 Dodrio
- 993.2 Keldeo-R
- 992.8 Mienshao
- 989.6 Excadrill
- 983.4 Butterfree
- 981.6 Zoroark
- 981.6 Articuno
- 980.4 Bellossom
- 979.9 Moltres
- 978.8 Porygon2*
- 978.5 Galvantula
- 977.3 Vileplume
- 973.6 Dragonite
- 973.8 Charizard
- 971.1 Whimsicott
- 966.7 Beedrill
- 964.3 Arcanine
- 961.9 Alomomola
- 959.0 Hitmonlee
- 957.3 Gyarados
- 956.7 Tentacruel
- 955.8 Rapidash
- 954.9 Beartic
- 954.4 Darmanitan-Z
- 952.7 Electivire
- 952.2 Darmanitan
- 948.5 Arbok
- 948.5 Flareon
- 944.3 Sawsbuck
- 941.7 Simisage
- 941.7 Simisear
- 941.3 Vanilluxe
- 939.7 Mr. Mime
- 935.1 Nidoking
- 934.0 Kangaskhan
- 933.5 Dugtrio
- 935.0 Marowak*
- 933.2 Porygon-Z
- 932.3 Kingdra
- 931.4 Magmortar
- 929.4 Venusaur
- 927.0 Parasect
- 926.5 Kingler
- 924.4 Glaceon
- 923.2 Raichu
- 922.0 Braviary
- 919.9 Hitmonchan
- 919.3 Ninetales
- 914.7 Golduck
- 913.9 Sigilyph
- 913.2 Nidoqueen
- 908.0 Bouffalant
- 906.7 Pinsir
- 906.7 Emboar
- 905.3 Rhyperior
- 899.9 Lilligant
- 899.5 Swoobat
- 898.4 Seismitoad
- 894.7 Hypno
- 893.0 Samurott
- 892.8 Lapras
- 891.3 Stoutland
- 889.1 Vaporeon
- 887.8 Chandelure
- 887.0 Clefable
- 887.0 Wigglytuff
- 883.8 Mandibuzz
- 880.4 Poliwrath
- 880.0 Unfezant
- 879.9 Magnezone
- 878.8 Klinklang
- 877.9 Blastoise
- 881.9 Snorlax
- 877.3 Umbreon
- 878.5 Blissey
- 878.0 Conkeldurr
- 873.5 Bisharp
- 870.3 Machamp
- 870.2 Scizor
- 869.0 Garbodor
- 866.4 Jynx
- 870.3 Gigalith
- 865.4 Swanna
- 865.3 Pikachu*
- 864.6 Sandslash
- 864.0 Weezing
- 864.2 Carracosta
- 861.5 Tangrowth
- 856.4 Victreebel
- 855.7 Eelektross
- 856.6 Exeggutor
- 853.7 Seaking
- 852.5 Golurk
- 853.0 Escavalier
- 850.6 Kabutops
- 851.8 Throh
- 847.9 Gothitelle
- 846.5 Politoed
- 846.0 Drifblim
- 845.3 Chansey*
- 843.9 Dewgong
- 844.0 Fearow
- 844.1 Muk
- 836.4 Golem
- 830.1 Cloyster
- 833.8 Musharna
- 828.7 Lickilicky
- 822.6 Omastar
- 821.5 Heatmor
- 823.5 Reuniclus
- 817.7 Crustle
- 818.8 Druddigon
- 815.5 Scrafty
- 813.4 Venomoth
- 812.9 Jellicent
- 806.7 Steelix
- 799.5 Hitmontop
- 800.3 Beheeyem
- 795.8 Ferrothorn
- 793.5 Stunfisk
- 794.7 Slowking
- 794.7 Slowbro
- 776.7 Amoonguss
- 772.6 Cofagrigus
- 571.6 Ditto
Yay this is finally up. Now, this metagame has been on for a couple of months before the thread got changed, so I'm gona list some things to help new people out:
1. Pack a counter for suicune, it didn't appear to get much, but access to reliable recovery allows it to run Crocune much more effectively, and wall almost everything.
2. Hail is a much more major threat, and makes common use of pokemon such as mamoswine, frosslass, and raikou. Don't discount it when teambuilding; either using or preparing for.
3. Quick powder is one of the most useful items in the game, and can make or break a pokemon, due to it's ability to jump speed tiers. Be sure to look out for this when running offense.
1. Pack a counter for suicune, it didn't appear to get much, but access to reliable recovery allows it to run Crocune much more effectively, and wall almost everything.
2. Hail is a much more major threat, and makes common use of pokemon such as mamoswine, frosslass, and raikou. Don't discount it when teambuilding; either using or preparing for.
3. Quick powder is one of the most useful items in the game, and can make or break a pokemon, due to it's ability to jump speed tiers. Be sure to look out for this when running offense.
Just wanted to point out that the classic CroCune is a set of Rest, Sleep Talk, Calm Mind, and Surf (or Scald), and access to recovery doesn't change this set at all.
I imagine what he's getting at is that Suicune can now run a similar set with Recover over RestTalk, thus freeing up another moveslot.