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When I said good, I meant for NU - Miltank would almost definitely switch to at least UU if not OU if it got rapid spin, which would mean NU would lose another good Pokemon to the higher tiers.
What if Golurk learned Mach Punch?
Well, that wouldn't mitigate Golurk's problems of coverage, but it certainly could take some HP of a Pokemon just before getting KOed.
I have another question: What if GameFreak released an item called Duolite which doubles the Defense and Special Defense of Pokemon who are the first in an evolutionary line of three Pokemon? LC pokemon would suddenly be much more viable in NU. Happiny would probably move to NU because it would be too good a Special Wall.
Well, this is an interesting one. One of Golurk's issues can be how susceptible he is to the ever common Sucker Punch. Giving Golurk Mach Punch would be a quick and flavorful twist, allowing him to pick off common Sucker Punchers like Cacturne, 0 Speed Skuntank, and Golem before they can attack. But, I can't really see where Golurk's gonna put it on his sets. On the CB set, he needs every move he has. On the support set, he's crunched for move slots as well. I'm not sure if he's gonna run it often, but it would be a useful tool if you feel like you have birds covered or have Wish support (to forego Ice Punch or Drain Punch, respectively.)
I have an intriguing question: What if Ampharos got Multiscale and Tail Glow?
With 90/75/95 defenses that aren't too bad at all, Multiscale would make Ampharos a beast. As a lead, it could Tail Glow(makes sense with flavor as well), take a hit and sweep!
With Tail Glow AND Cotton Guard, Ampharos would be kind of untouchable...
Why would Ampharos have Multiscale? Dragonite is a reptile and Lugia, while unclear, has origins based off dragons and dinosaurs. Ampharos is a wooless sheep.
Either way, Ampharos is too slow and doesn't have recovery. It'd probably appreciate Sturdy more - CB Sawk OHKOs it with EQ even through Multiscale, not to say the least of things like Golurk with STAB. Even then, Sturdy has no flavour sense.
Milk Drink outside battle effect possible in battle.
I am pretty sure that I'll have a hard time answering this question, but it seems that no one will, so lemme give it a try.
Miltank may or may not increase in usage, as the ability to do this is really situational; though in practice, I believe that its ability to heal a bit of health may be game changing. Pokemon with no recovery moves will find Miltank as a good partner, as it can support them by giving them enough HP to live some hits of some Pokemon. Wish users may still be used, though their usage may decrease a bit on offensive/balanced teams.
Miltank will be used more on offensive teams, as a defensive set on the new Milk Drink set will lower its HP, desperately hindering its defensive capabilities (though supporting its defensive teammates may be proved useful, depending on the situation). It also needs the speed to try to recover up HP before something hits it. But, most of the time, I won't see myself really use the chance to use a recovery move on Miltank to a teammate as I play quite offensively and would rather hit the opponent with a moderately-strong STAB or use it on Miltank himself (unless I really need something like Charizard or Jynx at moderately high HP). Pretty cool idea though, and it would be great to see more people answering this.
I have an intriguing question: What if Ampharos got Multiscale and Tail Glow?
With 90/75/95 defenses that aren't too bad at all, Multiscale would make Ampharos a beast. As a lead, it could Tail Glow(makes sense with flavor as well), take a hit and sweep!
With Tail Glow AND Cotton Guard, Ampharos would be kind of untouchable...
You shouldn't make more than a single suggestion for a Pokemon, and Multiscale is a pretty broken ability (which the rules state should not be used, don't just assume that Magic Guard is the only one). Also, Cotton Guard does not make Ampharos unstoppable, since Toxic and critical hits are still very likely to happen. And yes, flavor-wise it makes no sense to have Multiscale anyways. Let's just keep to Tail Glow.
This is a really interesting point raised. However, due to Miltank's relatively low HP stat, I don't think 20% of its health will do much to most things apart from frail sweepers, who really don't need te recovery unless they are running Life Orb. Due to the low HP recovery, I don't think it will be seen as much as you would expect, especially when Wish support exists and when some sweepers such as Charizard have Roost.
I do think that this could see some use on Pokemon with Life Orb or status orbs. It will take a toll on Miltank though, and its defensive capabilities and number of times it can switch in will be hindered
While it won't be revolutionary, I think this would be interesting as a supporter for offensive Pokemon to help them continue with their tasks. If I understand this correctly, this would mean that not only would Miltank heal its own HP, but then it automatically sacrifices 20% of its HP to heal its teammates. Even with Miltank's low HP stat, I see one major difference from something like Wish: you don't have to switch Miltank out to do so, meaning the recipient doesn't take damage upon switch in. That alone might be a very important difference in teammate healing techniques, especially with Miltank's nice base 100 Speed. Any thoughts on how this change would work?
Well then let's just assume it gets Tail Glow. Even so, Ampharos is pretty slow and most mons outspeed and OHKO. However, with Tail Glow Amphy would be a REALLY good Trick Room sweeper. With terrible speed and +2.5 SpA, it could probably OHKO the majority of the tier with a LO Set and good coverage
The issue is Trick Room itself. It is far too inefficient to rely on a "weather condition" that cannot last for more than 2 usable turns (set up TR, switch/KOed to send in Ampharos, set up Tail Glow). It is usually better to just have the Trick Room user itself try a sweep.
While it won't be revolutionary, I think this would be interesting as a supporter for offensive Pokemon to help them continue with their tasks. If I understand this correctly, this would mean that not only would Miltank heal its own HP, but then it automatically sacrifices 20% of its HP to heal its teammates. Even with Miltank's low HP stat, I see one major difference from something like Wish: you don't have to switch Miltank out to do so, meaning the recipient doesn't take damage upon switch in. That alone might be a very important difference in teammate healing techniques, especially with Miltank's nice base 100 Speed. Any thoughts on how this change would work?
The way I saw it, you could heal a pokemon in play with miltank while it's out of play, a bit like you heal a pokemon with a potion, but I think every way can be discussed. I guess since a potion can also be used on pokemon that are not in play, that could be discussed too. If you could really use it like this without having nore miltank nore the pokemon you heal in play, I think it would really change a whole aspect of the game, even if it's a small 78hp.
Yeah, milk drink outside effect would be kinda cool actually...
Likewise, using Heal bell outside effect would be good as well... it would mean the ability to heal the statuses of all pokemon on your team without the mon with heal bell being in play.
This is useful because let's say the mon can't switch in because it would get OHKOed on the switch. However, it can still heal bell without being in play and prevent a Toxic from getting too out of hand.
Guts pokemon would appreciate that as well, because it resets the toxic counter. I can imagine Swellow benefiting from that :)
Miltank is already an excellent support Pokemon, providing Heal Bell, Wish, and paralysis/poison support, but Rapid Spin would make it ridiculous. It wouldn't even need an attacking move--it could just outstall anything without a Fighting-type move. As mentioned before, Miltank would likely get banned, and powerful Grass-types that hated it getting Sap Sipper boosts such as Sawsbuck, Torterra, and Ludicolo would rise in usage.
He definitely looks big and muscular and enough to use it, and by using it he would be able to send its already amazing Attack through the roof. It also has the bulk (pun semi-intended) to set up multiple times against weaker threats and then start smashing through the opponent's team with boosted attacks. Of course, walls like Tangela and Alomomola are still able to completely wall it and hit it with supereffective STABs, fully countering him unless he's gotten too many boosts (or if he lacks Ice Punch against Tangela).
This is would pretty cool. With Drain Punch and Iron Fist, Golurk has a semi-reliably form of recovery with Bulk Up. This could even allow you to run Substitute alongside Shadow Punch for perfect coverage should you choose to do so. The cons probably do still outweigh the pros though. As you stated in your original post, it would still struggle to get past some of the more prominent walls in the tier (Alomomola and Tangela, most notably). For a Sub/Bulk Up Pokemon, I would still probably prefer to use Braviary due to its better Speed and access to Roost. I still wouldn't count out Golurk though. Its common immunities and fantastic coverage are both advantageous. Additionally, it is much less predictable (or would be, in my opinion), than Braviary.
I updated the first post with the exclusion of suggestions that broke the rules; lots of good discussion going on. :)
I'd like to remind you guys that you can use the OP both to look for interesting questions to answer and also to double check whether or not what you said was suggested before; you can CTRL + F your Pokemon name to see if there are any entries for it.
I've been saving this one for quite some time thinking about how it would function well, and I've found some decent ways of contributing about. This was one that me and user Molk talked about for a bit and himself suggesting me to request this idea.
What if Stantler received Illusion? While this may seem like quite an obscene ability on a Normal-type Pokemon among other matters, this would actually make plausible sence due to its supernatural features among Stantler's antlers (rhyme ftw). Its Pokedex entry technically implies that staring at them causes distortion of reality, allowing it to create illusions with its antlers by "subtly changing the flow of air around them",which erupts an excessive amount of dizziness. In the competitive scene of things, it has decent offensive prowess with decent Speed, Attack, and good coverage overall. Personally as of result, I think it will definitely find its niche among other Normal-types, as it allows it to function as a nice lure of sorts for other offensive teammates that tends to draw in specific threats. It's offensive movepool sports options such as Double-Edge, Megahorn, Earthquake, Jump Kick, or Sucker Punch, giving it a good amount of opportunities of surprising opponents with its Illusion ability, which can definitely become game-changing in the long run. With that being said, how do you think this would play out among the metagame and what teammates would benefit from situations like this?
Well, I never thought I'd see the day. I'm honestly surprised people remember Stantler exists! Stantler has, unfortunately, always been outclassed as a Normal-Type attacker by Miltank, Kangaskhan, and others, with no real way to carve a niche for itself.
Intimidate?: Stoutland.
Sap Sipper?: Miltank.
Frisk?: lol.
He just had no way to differenciate himself. With the addition of Illusion, multiple things open up for it, such as being an effective Ghost Killer with a LO Sucker Punch while the opponent's Shadow Ball does nothing to your Ghost-/Psychic- Type.
As for partners, Jynx immediately comes to mind as a great Illusion Stantler partner. Jynx effectively dispatches all physial walls that would hinder Stantler's success, while Stantler can very much harm Jynx's usual switch-ins, such as Skuntank and Cacturne, with a powerful Megahorn and Earthquake. It would be a cool change, but I don't think it would necessarily make him an S-Tier, of even an A-Tier threat. It would make him more viable, however.
Some calcs, to show how easily Stantler can dispatch some of Jynx's counters:
Cacturne
252 Atk Life Orb Stantler Megahorn vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Cacturne: 827-977 (293.26 - 346.45%) -- guaranteed OHKO
As you can see, standard Cacturne is OHKOd with plenty of overkill.
252 Atk Life Orb Stantler Megahorn vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Cacturne: 541-640 (157.26 - 186.04%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Even the bulkiest Cacturne is a clean kill.
Skuntank
252 Atk Life Orb Stantler Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Skuntank: 317-374 (91.35 - 107.78%) -- 43.75% chance to OHKO
Standard attacking Skuntank is possibly OHKOd with Jolly, and is a clean OHKO with Adamant. Jolly does OHKO after Rocks, however.
252+ Atk Life Orb Stantler Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Skuntank: 348-411 (100.28 - 118.44%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Stantler Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 220 Def Skuntank: 265-312 (76.36 - 89.91%) -- 18.75% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
Even putting the standard 220 SpDef EVs into Defense can't save Skunk from an OHKO. A layer of Spikes is a 94% chance to OHKO, and since spike stacking is really easy in this meta, it's perfectly reasonable to call this a reliable KO.
MANtine
252+ Atk Life Orb Stantler Double-Edge vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Mantine: 203-239 (60.96 - 71.77%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
Mantine is 2HKOd with maximum investment. And since Stantler is naturally faster, he gets the KO.
So, as you can see, Stantler would be great for Jynx and see a lot of use on teams that are given trouble by these two.
There are a couple things I've been wondering for some time.
What if Golurk got Trick Room?
Ghost-types along with Psychic-types are often the ones known for getting this move. Golurk is very powerful and has a great movepool with great coverage, but it's really slow. Golurk could potentially run a nice Trick Room set that could allow it to turn the tide of the match and also support some slow mons. So how would this do?
What if Mesprit dropped to NU?
This is something I've been curious about for quite a while now. The little cutie has been teetering the edge of dropping for a while now, but hasn't quite reached there. But anyways, I'm curious: just how would Mesprit impact the NU metagame? I'm guessing its amazing movepool and a great balance of stats would make it a great and versatile Pokemon that is pretty damn unpredictable, and its typing is kinda neat. SubCM would probably be an extremely threatening set imo because Mesprit's quite bulky and it can set up CM on shit not named Skuntank, while if it's behind a Sub, Scolipede has no hopes of beating it. It could also make for a nice supportive Pokemon with the awesome movepool and a potential Choice user too. So how would Mesprit do if it were in the NU tier? (and what would it get on the viability thread)
Mesprit was NU for a long time, and only rose to RU when Charizard, Ludicolo, and Sawsbuck dropped. The most common set was far and away the support set, since it was always a bit too slow to run an offensive set, and didn't have the moves to effectively run SubCM. Mesprit gives you a nice Pokemon that can set up SR, cripple the opponent with Thunder Wave, Toxic, or Knock Off, and either support the team with Healing Wish or U-turn out. It also gets the weather moves and Dual Screens.
Ghost-types along with Psychic-types are often the ones known for getting this move. Golurk is very powerful and has a great movepool with great coverage, but it's really slow. Golurk could potentially run a nice Trick Room set that could allow it to turn the tide of the match and also support some slow mons. So how would this do?
trick room golurk would be a cool alternative for players looking to sweep with it, but dislike the prediction reliant choice band set or the relatively frail rock polish set. golurk would still be very vulnerable to sucker punch and walls, but it could run through an unprepared team with ease with its powerful attacks. this is actually a pretty cool suggestion and gives golurk an extra niche without breaking it at all.
What if Golurk got a new ability called Trickster which automatically sets Trick Rom for 5 turns?
The effect would be nothing short of gigantic. Golurk would rapidly rise in usage, as slow pokemon would suddenly be MUCH better
Torkoal would be practically priority Rapid Spin under Trick Room, a big thing.
Another intriguing one: What if Torkoal got Contrary
It makes sense with the flavor because Torkoal looks like a massive SpA user with steam coming out of it but it's SpA is quite average actually
The effect would be amazing. Firstly, it would be a defensive BEAST with Shell Smash.
Secondly, it could just spam Overheat until even Water types are burnt.
Sun Teams would rise massively in popularity as would Trick Room
This would be the Set:
Torkoal@White Herb
Ability: Contrary
252 HP/252 SpA/4 SpD
- Shell Smash
- Overheat
- HP Electric/Sunny Day
- Flamethrower/Solarbeam
This set would be...revolutionary.
It would be able to take any mon by Shell Smash and then spamming overheat. Solarbeam and Sunny Day together mean that after 2-3 Overheats, Solarbeam will OHKO any Water type.
Trick Room teams will abuse it crazy and Trick Room will be viable once more...
Umm, Contrary would just give it -2 SAtk and -2 Spe which means it becomes useless in terms of sweeping. I don't think it can utilize Shell Smash very well with Contrary, even if it boosts its defenses.
I would think Offensive Contrary Torkoal would sound good on paper but ineffective in practice. Unlike Contrary Serperior, Torkoal has terrible speed and it would be difficult to set up a sweep, or even wallbreak even with Overheat. Maybe it could work in Trick Room like you said, but I don't think Torkoal would change the metagame much should it get Contrary.
Trick Room Golurk
That sounds like a great idea to use on dedicated Trick Room teams, since Golurk's typing is amazing in checking Primeape which Trick Room teams usually struggle against, and Golurk can even set up rocks and abuse TR himself. This would definitely result in the rise of Trick Room teams
Trickster Golurk
Not only does Golurk become the ultimate check to the new drops, it also allows it to take advantage of Trick Room immediately, while it resists Scolipede's Megahorn, and almost hard counters Primeape. Needless to say, with automatic Trick Room, the metagame will start to become pretty wild, as everything can now take advantage of speed creeping by using auto-Trick Room. Choice Band Golurk will probably rise in popularity as well, since it can now sweep without worrying about its speed.
I am going to second vyomov's earlier proposal, with a slight modification: What if Eviolite doubles the defenses of mons that can evolve twice?
Well, this would be mostly irrevelant (on a side note, it will screw LC over) since it's usually superior to use said mon's evolved form with 1.5x Eviolite. There are some exceptions though, mainly due to both evolutions being too good and locked away in the higher tiers.
Porygon: A highly versatile mon with somewhat respectable output thanks to Analytic, the duck failed nevertheless to catch up to NU's other big names. With the +2 eviolite though, it becomes hilariously bulky and may actually see some use. To start with, CB Adamant Sawk only OHKOes physically bulky +2 porygon 6% of the time. Offensively Porygon is no slouch either; even with no investment Shadow Ball two-hits Golurk.
Duskull: This thing becomes as bulky as Hippowdon with the x2 Eviolite. Granted, Misdreavus mostly outclasses, but Duskull can, in addition to reliable spinblocking, set up Trick Room (even repeatedly).
Happiny: In spite of its abysmal stats, the large boost makes Happiny actually somewhat viable. It is now bulkier than Munchlax, and has Seismic Toss, Wish and Heal Bell over the latter.
And for the lulz, there is Rhyhorn. Sadly being bulkier than Regirock doesn't stop it from being one-shot by Water and Grass attacks.
btw, Golurk with Trickster is a terrible idea flavour-wise; remember that Golurk has Klutz as second ability. Maybe Spinda can get it?
Umm, Contrary would just give it -2 SAtk and -2 Spe which means it becomes useless in terms of sweeping. I don't think it can utilize Shell Smash very well with Contrary, even if it boosts its defenses.
I would think Offensive Contrary Torkoal would sound good on paper but ineffective in practice. Unlike Contrary Serperior, Torkoal has terrible speed and it would be difficult to set up a sweep, or even wallbreak even with Overheat. Maybe it could work in Trick Room like you said, but I don't think Torkoal would change the metagame much should it get Contrary.
Since he mentioned Trick Room, it'd be up and Torkoal would become even slower and then sweep with Overheat. However the problem is, Trick Room is only four turns after the turn it's used. Then you switch to Torkoal, 3 turn. You use Shell Smash, 2 turns. You use Overheat, 1 turn. You use Overheat again, 0 turns. So you're slow with +2 Special Attack, which is where the main issue lies. If Trick Room had a special sort of rock to increase its usage time, maybe, but otherwise I just don't see it working, unless he +2 Overheated while Trick Room was up, then spammed Shell Smash. Overheat with Contrary in general would be awesome though, but with Trick Room it'd be ineffective for the most part. I don't think Torkoal would get that much more usage than it already does, but it'd be certainly a nice option for Torkoal to have in its arsenal.
