Theorymon Sessions

zeb is a loser

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Yeah that would definitely be an interesting idea in the metagame. I like this suggestion for it, since its typing allow Golem come in on quite a few threats that can't do much to it or force them out (such as Scarf Electric-types or Flying-types) and gain that opportunity to Rapid Spin, making it one of the most viable options for a Rapid Spinners for offensive teams.

The problem with this though, is essentially what you've stated FLCL. We all know that Misdreavus is probably the single most prevalent wall in the current metagame, and part of that stems from its ability to counter physical attacks just like Golem and being the best spin-blocker in the tier. It also tends to be quite difficult to forgo your standard options as well since they all have their valuable uses that definitely allows it to find justification of use of other Stealth Rock users, such as Sucker Punch, Explosion or Rock Blast. If you forgo Sucker Punch, then most of the time you're probably losing to Golurk unless you're speed creeping as it switches in on an Earthquake, and if you forgo Rock Blast, you risk being used as setup bait by Haunter or Driftblim, so it's pretty much a "pick your poison" situation in that regard. Additionally, running Golem without Stealth Rock means that you have to generally stack up with other Stealth Rock users, which means that more often than not this can further open your team up with common weaknesses to Water, Grass, Fighting, or Ice.
 
FLCL said:
what if golem learned rapid spin?

this isn't too ridiculous because it was able to get rapid spin through an event in generation two. golem can find a lot of chances to spin due to its nice resistances, but is pretty much stopped cold by misdreavus. however, no other spin-blocker likes to switch into it. golem's usage will probably skyrocket since it will become by far the most reliable spinner in the tier and can still set up stealth rock efficiently. however, it's hard to fit in those two moves, earthquake, rock blast, sucker punch, and explosion in the same set so players will have to mix and match to find the set that benefits their team the most.

thoughts on this?
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I am sorry to say it, but I find the lack of capitals quite annoying in your post(s).

That aside, the tennis ball named Golem would be great with Rapid Spin though. It has solid offensive presence and is more useful than Wartortle (ugh). It has plenty of useful moves and maybe non-SR Golem would appear, but variants dedicated to spinning with Sucker Punch and Toxic as well as a STAB move.

Edit: Sorry, but I never meant to make it sound like an insult, though I indeed wrote it down quite rude / blunt. Though I don't care about imperfect grammar, as I derp up my grammar once in a while as well.
It is just that I always found consistent lack of capitals in a piece of text being very irritating, and more often than not I dismiss posts written without capitals as troll posts before even bothering to read them.
 
Aasgier said:
That you should use capitals. I find things like this somewhat annoying to read.

That aside, the tennis ball named Golem would be great with Rapid Spin though. It has solid offensive presence and is more useful than Wartortle (ugh). It has plenty of useful moves and maybe non-SR Golem would appear, but variants dedicated to spinning with Sucker Punch and Toxic as well as a STAB move.
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Just a fair warning in the fact that it's quite rude and disrespectful to call someone out based upon how they go about typing among how they format their writing on the forums. Most people don't have perfect written grammar, nor is it a necessity of doing so. You are definitely not entitled to insult someone based on this and everyone has a right to format their writing however they'd like to as long as they truly feel that it's understandable to the public.
 
I don't believe Aasgier was out of line at all, it is common courtesy to place capitalization and punctuation to make looking at the post easier for the reader.
However, I would find that golem would be the best spinner in the tier based on the fact that it is not weak to stealth rocks. Armaldo and Golem would have similarites on the fact that they both have high attack and defense, and average or subpar remaining stats. However, golem has the fact that it only takes 6.25% from rocks, so if it can get a turn of leftovers, can guarantee a spin with sturdy ( unless misdreavus or a ghost comes in obviously). Golem would also have to compete with the best spinner in the game imo in wartortle, who is neutral to rocks, can guarantee a spin with foresight if you use it, and attack somewhat with scald, ice beam and seismic toss. Golem's attacking stat is just so much better, and complements stealth rock pokes extremely well, such as charizard, articuno and swellow. I could see golem running stealth rock/sucker punch, rapid spin, earthquake and rock blast very effectively, would definitely overtake armaldo and rise to one of the highest used pokes in the tier (much like armaldo is now, and even though golem would not be that awesome).
 
What if Golem got Rapid Spin? Honestly, Rapid Spin is an awesome move. I almost NEVER use Golem outside of the lead position, but this could change how Golem is played entirely. Charizard would become much more viable with a spinner that is not Wartortle (you are probably better off letting Charizard die to two switch-ins into rocks than use Wartortle).

One proposed set:

Golem (M) @ Custap Berry/Leftovers
Trait: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP/252 Atk/4 Spe
Nature: Adamant
-Stone Edge
-Earthquake
-Rapid Spin
-Sucker Punch/Toxic/Thunderpunch

Golem can still run EdgeQuake and Rapid Spin, which is a very nice boost. EVs and ability are self-explanatory. The last slot can either give a strong source of priority, a status move (Ludicolo, Torterra, Seismitoad, Shiftry, etc. on the switch in), or an option to hit Water-types that the Charizard/Golem core struggles with.

What if Cacturne got Drought? Despite Cacturne's horrible defensive typing and poor defensive stats and speed, introducing auto-Sun to NU would likely get Cacturne suspected and banned within a week or two. However, considering that it's Cacturne we're talking about and not something like Scizor, would this actually happen? What if Cacturne were to stay in NU? What effect would this have on the metagame?

Ideas:
*Charizard and Shiftry everywhere
*Cherrim as a nice offensive partner
*Leafeon becomes a top Baton Passer (SD, Work Up)
*Wartortle rises in usage for spinning away rocks for Fire-types
*Golem/Gigalith leads increase in usage to put up rocks and create giant dents in holes
*Seismitoad and Jynx both decrease in usage.
*Ludicolo becomes more offensive, running Ice Beam/Solarbeam/Giga Drain/Hidden Power Rock or Fire
 
Rapid Spin Golem

This will totally shift the metagame, pushing Pokemon such as Armaldo down the ladder while giving Articuno and Charizard a chance to shine brighter. The problem is that Golem still has trouble beating Ghost types, meaning Misdreavus will switch into it on most situations. There is also, as stated earlier, a 4MSS. If you forego Sucker Punch for Rapid Spin, chances are Ghost types such as Golurk beat you unless you predict it to switch and go for EQ. If you forego Rock Blast, Substitute Haunter and Ninjask can set up on you.

I still believe that Golem will not be broken if it were to get Rapid Spin though, as it is weak to common attacking moves and it's quite slow. It will, though, appeal your average PS ladderer because its a Pokemon that learns SR and spins (the reason why Armaldo is used too much).
 
Zebraiken said:
Firstly, try to avoid suggesting obviously broken changes, or those that would make it unrealistic for this Pokemon to remain NU. If you're going to give Slaking ANYTHING other than Truant, why in the world would it still be NU? Likewise, don't go giving Articuno Magic Guard (or anything, really - Magic Guard in itself is a really fucking strong ability) or anything of the sort.
Leave base stats, typing, and everything else alone. This is an exercise about moves and abilities, not anything else.
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Explorer said:
What if Cacturne got Drought?
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If this doesn't speak for itself, then something is wrong. Drought single-handedly brought Ninetales up to OU, and suggesting it on Cacturne isn't exactly gonna lessen the potency at all. Actually, Cacturne is a decent Pokemon; it just has a bad time this metagame with all the new drops and the entire tier shifting to accommodate them. Drought on its own is such a strong ability that Drought Vulpix was banned from UU as well. So technically you are also suggesting a banned ability for the lower tiers.

I feel like this thread is getting a bit clustered with suggestions and many interesting ones already posted aren't getting the time of day. So I think I'll bring a couple of the most interesting ones to me to the forefront.

What if Torkoal got Morning Sun?

While it won't completely erase its vulnerability to hazards and low Speed, a reliable recovery move with extend its life significantly. This would give the defensive spinner set the push it needs to actually be effective, because it can easily wear down Misdreavus with Lava Plume while recovering with Morning Sun (or if you are Taunted, you get basically a free turn to Lava Plume it). While you will still be scared out by Golurk, at the very least you can deal Haunter and hopefully recover back HP. However, the real boon from Morning Sun comes from the fact that it removes the entry hazard damage that it'll have to take in order to Spin. It'll still prefer a way to remove Ghosts, because other Ghosts can still trouble it (though at least most of them can't switch in safely). As for the Shell Smash set, I don't see it mattering at all, since Torkoal needs all the moves on that set to work; especially due to Shell Smash, it really can't afford to waste a turn healing when it could be mashing faces. Also, Shell Smash Torkoal isn't really a sweeper, since it is too slow to truly sweep; but it is excellent at tearing through Ghosts that get in the way of a Spin, and it can serve as a decent wallbreaker.

What if Misdreavus got access to Moonlight?

I chose Moonlight over Recover simply because I like the night time association of it, but this works the same with Recover. Misdreavus is already extremely bulky, and Pain Split helps it maintain decent HP occasionally. However, I find that Pain Split rarely gives it enough HP to be worth using half the time, since you tend to wear down your opponent's Pokemon over time (thus reducing its effectiveness as we all know). Moonlight would give it a way to restore HP consistently, maintaining its roles of being a spinblocker and physical wall. In truth, lack of reliable recovery was the main problem preventing Misdreavus from competing with the likes of Musharna and Alomomola before. Now Misdreavus has become extremely valuable with the new drops, and so Moonlight would catapult it to the top of the ranks of our physical walls. For the Nasty Plot/CM sweeper, it would loath to give up any of its moves; the likely one to be given up would be Substitute or Taunt. But promoting longevity is usually worth it if one can deal with status inducers somehow.
 
Hmm, I see that there has been no activity for a few days, so I thought I'd come in and lend a few suggestions, while at the same time responding to a couple that I've wanted to get to for some time.

Starships said:
I wanna post something I was interested in before.

What if Metang had Levitate?
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This would be a phenomenal upgrade for Metang, as this particular ability allows it to function as a great utility check to virtually any Ground-type in the tier (ironically without this it's usually the other way around), allow it to gain free opportunities to setup Stealth Rock and further increase its longevity. This would probably also ultimately end up with a change of state within the metagame in which Fire-types like Charizard and the look would rise upon popularity, as it's often deceptively bulky and can take quite a few hits while either setting up Stealth Rock (which in a sense gives it some way of consistently hindering the presence of Fire-types as they often share weaknesses to Stealth Rock). It'll definitely be an improvement that Metang would cherish for, as it gives it more of a defining niche in the tier.

Now, here's a few suggestions of my own.

What if Miltank received Rapid Spin? This was a suggestion that I was actually quite shaky among talking about, but I think I would like to see some opinions as to how people here think this would go. The idea is inspired by the fact of Whitney using Rollout, and seeing as most Rapid Spinners generally happen to be doing the same thing (spinning around or whatever), I thought it'd make plausible sense for Miltank. Regarding the topic, this will easily cement it being the best Rapid Spinner in the tier with Scrappy and gets to utilize options like Heal Bell, Stealth Rock and Milk Drink with good supporting capabilities and longevity on the process while even not being dead weight against Ghost-types with its most used STAB move. Its solid bulk and Speed stat means that it can come in on a large variety of Pokemon and easily Rapid Spin away. It can also play things out offensively as well, functioning as an offensive pivot that can strike back decently hard while still maintaining among its main goal of spinning. This alone would be enough to easily send it into S-rank status. What are your thoughts of Rapid Spin Miltank for the metagame?

What if Cincinno returned into the NU tier? I've noticed that no one has particularly done like this so I thought I'd give it a try. This definitely would look to be a wake up call, as Cincinno's excellent base Speed and offensively capabilities makes it quite well-suited for the current metagame, being able to outspeed and break through so many common Pokemon like Scolipede, Jynx, Golurk, and more while generating momentum with U-turn of course. It will surely gain the title as one of the deadliest late-game sweepers in the tier. Misdreavus prevalence does give it one of the tier's most prominent checks and it's quite frail, giving a distinct reasoning to function in the tier without necessarily being overpowered. Steel types are also receiving notable justification of use in the metagame due to their well-rounded resists. How do you think Cincinno's role will play out for the current metagame?

What if Golem and Marowak received Mold Breaker? This is usually paired among Pokemon with high offensive prowess and ability to break through Rock-related parts and elements, so I thought these would be good suggestions for it. I think it would be a pretty good upgrade for both of these that allows them to perform their respective jobs that much better. Sturdy often isn't a necessity for Golem either seeing as it won't be planning on staying it on something that OHKO's it anytime soon anyways. With Mold Breaker, this allows for them to make better use of what they're good at, and most of that stems from their offensive prowess. It's also worth noting that Mold Breaker hits through Sturdy and Levitate, meaning that Weezing now isn't a safe switch and they would have a way to reliably damage Misdreavus (this is especially beneficial in Marowak's case). Not too shabby of an idea of an idea if I'd say so myself; what are your thoughts?
 
Rapid Spin Miltank will most likely go out of NU and straight into OU for being capable of ALWAYS getting that Spin off. That's insane and something many teams would kill for, especially considering Miltank's speed of Base 100. It also has access to SR, so we have something that is like Donphan, just even better. And we all know where Donphan resides currently.

Golem and Marowak with Mold Breaker would be great. Misdreavus, a check to both, can now deal with them but no longer can now, forcing you to sack something especially to Marowak which hits insanely hard with Thick Club. Faster mons and revengekillers can still deal with them, especially with Golem because it has two 4× weaknesses.
 
NU Cinccino

The chinchilla is back for another round! But what has happened since then? Well for one thing, we received three new Pokemon that are beaten easily by Cinccino. With Pokemon like Amoonguss and Absol banished to RU, Cinccino becomes much more threatening in this metagame. The rise of Misdreavus and Weezing may hinder Cinccino's capabilities a bit, but it has U-turn to safely go into a check/counter anyway.

I would assume that Choice Scarf Cinccino would be more popular this round, as it outspeeds most scarfers in the tier, as well as most weather abusers, while still firing off strong multi-hit moves. Life Orb Cinccino is still a great choice on a team, but with the more fast-paced meta, I doubt it would be more useful than the Choice Scarf set.

Golem, Gigalith, and other Sturdy-reliant leads would be less common. Klang might appear once again on the ladder, and Metang may be used more.

(May edit the rest later)
 
Aasgier said:
Rapid Spin Miltank will most likely go out of NU and straight into OU for being capable of ALWAYS getting that Spin off. That's insane and something many teams would kill for, especially considering Miltank's speed of Base 100. It also has access to SR, so we have something that is like Donphan, just even better. And we all know where Donphan resides currently.
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We're kinda encouraged to think of it from NU terms btw, so you should think of how it'd fit into NU more than how it'd jump to OU (which I agree with, but still). :)

Personally I think it'd cause the other spinners to be used differently. Torkoal would start just being SS with Rapid Spin (or maybe even something else?) rather than a dedicated spinner, and the same would apply for Armaldo with Swords Dance. But guaranteed spin, idk, Charizard and Swellow would rise like crazy due to no more SR. Scolipede might not even bother to run Spikes for the most part and rather stick to an offensive role, and SR would be less necessary than it is now due to the guaranteed spin. Miltank will also be on practically everyone's teams I'd think, and priority could rise even more to take down the faster threats without SR to stop them. This isn't to say people wouldn't run SR, but with a guaranteed spin coming off from Miltank I think SR would just be less of a priority, and rather teams would pack priority itself, and Sturdy users, too. Something like Golem would really love this, given how strong it is already. Mold Breaker mons like Sawk would find more usage to shut down Sturdy when facing the Sturdy leads. I think this could actually be an interesting metagame in regards to SR having less importance but I think it would make Charizard broken so I'd not enjoy it too much. With Charizard in mind, actually, sun teams would rise even more, given that they're good already in the metagame, but with Miltank almost guaranteeing no SR, Charizard can sweep much more easier with sun on its side and Rapidash would enjoy it too as it can now spam Flare Blitz more!

On another note, I think it'd end up running something like Rapid Spin, Earthquake, Body Slam and Milk Drink probably when with a dedicated Rapid Spin set, so that it can easily live attacks from the physical SR setters.
 
What if Miltank got Rapid Spin?

You know, as many times as I've fought Whitney in Silver, I'm surprised that I've never thought of this one. Good call.

For starters, having a spinner who can always get a spin off no matter what without using Foresight would automatically make Miltank the best defensive Rapid Spinner in the tier, for that I'm certain. Miltank is very fast in for this meta, sitting at base 100, and has some amazing bulk with 95/105/70. Her support pool is fantastic, consisting of self-recovery, Heal Bell, Stealth Rock, as well as Toxic and Thunder Wave to support its team to the fullest. I would see absolutely no reason to NOT run Miltank on your team at that point, honestly. If it runs EQ, it destroys Scolipede, spins its precious spikes away, and recovers back all the damage Scolipede was trying to deal to you with his Megahorns and such, with relative ease. These are some things I can see happening to the meta around Rapid Spin Miltank:

  1. For one, hazard setters will definitely run Toxic in their sets. In my opinion, I would instantly add Toxic to my Scolipede or Golurk to hopefully deal with the cow better. However, this takes up an important coverage move, so while it may be more difficult for hazard setters to act outside of hazards, I could see it working out alright. Getting a timer on a bulky threat is always good. (I can imagine Scolipede would have an issue with running Toxic over a coverage move, as then it would be stalled by something no matter what you replace. Same goes for Golurk as well, for the most part.)
  2. Another thing I could see happening is a rise Roselia usage. Roselia packs a strong Special Attack stat, something the other Spike stackers in the tier don't have. Miltank is considerably weaker on the special side, meaning that Roselia's Sludge Bomb would be really helpful to wear the cow down, especially with that chance of poisoning the target. Of course, Miltank would probably run Heal Bell with Rapid Spin, as it would make her basically the best team supporter a team could ask for, so I'm not sure how much weight these first two points make. (Guys, I'm a little scared of this whole idea now. What can stop this thing? :S)
  3. As far as mons becoming more popular, Charizard and Articuno are for sure gonna be used a lot more than they used to. The bane of these mon's existences is definitely Stealth Rock, and now that keeping them off the field is easier than ever, they have free reign to wreck house in the tier. Articuno will become the threat she should be, and Charizard would easily destroy enemy teams that aren't prepared or depended on SR to get those KOs previously and check those big threats.
  4. In turn, I think hazard setters would become less popular, at least frail Spike stackers like Scolipede, Cacturne, Roselia (on the physical side, which is not good considering Miltank has a decent Base 80 Attack and bulk that you can easily allows you to invest in your offenses.), and Garbodor. Two of these mons are weak to Earthquake, and the rest take heavy damage from Return or Double-Edge. Not to mention none of them can do very serious damage to Miltank with decent defensive investment (or some sort of special defensive investment if you're scared of Roselia.), so I would see no reason to run Spike stackers in a meta where this mon exists.
  5. Finally, I think Ghost-Types in general would lose some sort of value on defensive teams. No longer can you spin-block with your Misdreavus, burn the spinner, and set up your shenanigans with your frail sweepers. Now, Miltank can seriously harm Missy with Double-Edge (as she's faster than Missy), Heal Bell of the burn, all before getting off an easy spin.

All in all, Rapid Spin Miltank would be a great addition to offensive teams alike, working with multiple sets, from offensive to defensive. I was thinking of some sets here that could work for offensive and more balanced/defensive teams, respectively.

Balanced/Defensive Set

Miltank @ Leftovers / Rocky Helmet
Trait: Scrappy
EVs: 252 HP / 96 Atk / 156 Def
Impish Nature
- Rapid Spin
- Stealth Rock / Heal Bell
- Double-Edge / Body Slam
- Milk Drink

This set, as you can tell, aims to wall as many physical hits as possible while doing some damage and supporting its team at the same time. The choice between Leftovers and Rocky Helmet is up to you, but I would recommend using Leftovers with Double-Edge, as you can recover some of your health back easier than with a Rocky Helmet, but Rocky Helmet is great for mons such as Primeape who don't appreciate chip damage from U-Turns. The EVs are kind of odd, but Miltank can afford to invest in her Attack stat with her stellar Defense. Rapid Spin is there for obvious reasons. Stealth Rock is an awesome tool for a spinner, as it allows you to better combat opposing spinners without switching out to get your rocks up. Heal Bell is also an amazing option, as it allows Miltank to heal burns from Misdreavus and Toxic from Roselia as well as heal sleeping opponents and burned/paralyzed sweepers. Double-Edge is the preferred STAB, as it has amazing move synergy with Milk Drink and hits considerably harder than Return. Body Slam, on the other hand, is perfectly viable if you don't want the recoil, as it also has a handy paralysis chance. I would say Milk Drink is mandatory, as self-recovery is very important to Miltank and there really isn't a reason NOT to use it.

Offensive Rapid Spin

Miltank @ Leftovers / Silk Scarf
Trait: Scrappy
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def
Adamant Nature
- Rapid Spin
- Double-Edge
- Earthquake
- Milk Drink

This is similar to an offensive Miltank set on site, I believe, but it would be even more effective with Rapid Spin. Miltank's unresisted coverage goes great with Rapid Spin, allowing her to beat usual SR setters and Rapid Spinners with relative ease. I chose an Adamant Nature to maximize the cow's damage output. Double-Edge and EQ are there for great coverage, allowing Miltank to hit those Steel-Types that bother Normal-Types so much. Milk Drink, of course is for reliable recovery that allows Miltank to last longer.

All in all, I think the defensive set would be used more.

Miltank with Rapid Spin would be an interesting addition to the meta, making hazards much less important in the meta, as well as influencing the rise in offensive teams in the metagame.
 
I have my own question:
What if Magmar got Flash Fire?
It makes sense with the flavor, living in volcanoes.
Magmar with Flash Fire could actually do quite well, I think.
It can switch in to Fire types and get a boost to a already high 100 SpA.
Another question I'm interested in is this: What if Glaceon got Regenerator
Well, the flavour is a little tricky, but the consequences would be good.
Glaceon would now have the ability to run a Life Orb Set, hit two-three times and then switch out and regen, ready to sweep once more.
 
Flash Fire Magmar
Doesn't really change anything for Magmar at all. He doesn't take much from fire type moves, he's too slow to really take advantage of it, and Vital Spirit is a better choice anyway because of Jynx.

Regenerator Glaceon
Different mon, same problems. LO Glaceon isn't fast enough to make any sort of use out of Regenerator because almost all significant powerhouses in NU outspeed it anyway. Of course it's a better ability than it has now, but somewhat useless on a Pokemon with 65 Base Speed.

NU Cinccino
While I really doubt it would ever come back to the NU metagame, Cinccino would be an amazing mon in the new meta. Amazing Speed and Attack with Skill Link and multi-hit moves to break Focus Sash? Jynx would almost become useless if a Cinccino was on the opposing team. Now that I'm complaining of course, as I don't really like the way the meta has shifted towards offensive strategies. While the return of Cinccino would most likely result in a more defensive approach to playing in NU, I doubt it would change it as vastly as other Pokemon returning/dropping, such as what we saw with Primeape/Jynx/Scolipede.
 
What if Magmar got Flash Fire

To be honest, I don't see how it can help Magmar at all, to be honest.. Magmar's main niche is his ability to come in on common sleep users, such as Jynx, Butterfree, Vileplume, Parasect, and Roselia, and threaten them out with moderately powerful SE Fire-Type attacks, while still retaining bulk. Giving him Flash Fire's only use may be to kind of check Simisear (who isn't common) and special Zard (but Magmar still loses a hefty chunk to Zard's coverage moves.), but Magmar loses to most physical Fire-Types. Rapidash can Drill Run, and almost all physical Zards carry Earthquake. Torkoal also beats Flash Fire Magmar with Earth Power if he has Special Defense investment. It may be interesting, but I only see Vital Spirit being used.

What if Glaceon got Regenerator?

Glaceon getting Regenerator doesn't really fix any of Glaceon's problems. Her poor speed, meh bulk, and Stealth Rock weakness make it so she barely attacks anyways outside of wallbreaking. With Regenerator, it can kind of remedy this, but she takes so much damage that the next switch in is probably gonna kill her anyways, even after Regenerator. I don't see it helping much.
 
Just want to add a point here. While Flash Fire might not be the best Magmar has, it can always be used with mindgames. Does your opponent attack with a fire-type and trigger flash fire?
It can also be used to fool opponents into thinking Vital Spirit is being used and prevent them from Sporing, taking advantage and then later using Flash Fire: by the time they realise their mistake it's too late:)
However, this isn't the ideal situation for these kind of mindgames. Opponents can always test the waters with a HP Fire. If it doesn't hit too hard, you can start sporing whereas otherwise, clear smog always gets rid. Not to mention the boost disappears if Magmar has to switch out so once uncovered, it doesn't work anymore:)
Also, if Glaceon uses Regenerator, it can baton pass a wish(not much but...) and get 30% for itself as well which is kind of like a double wish(useless really on a pokemon with such a low HP stat though... this might work better on a mon with good HP(Imagine if Drifblim got it though.. LOL))
 
Eh, I disagree. There's no reason for you to use a Fire-Type move while Magmar's in, since it's not gonna do any notable damage. You're better off switching into your Water-Type and take it out regardless. In the same sense, if he does get a Flash Fire boost, he can't do much to the Water-Type switch in, or the Fire-Type he got it from, for that matter. I don't see it getting much use.

Again, on Glaceon, it's niche is that of a strong, but slow and pretty frail wallbreaker. BPing a wish isn't really optimal as her HP isn't good, and wish passing is better on Alomomola anyway. That, and Glaceon takes too much damage to pass a wish reliably. Regenerator is pretty pointless on a mon who's gonna die before it gets to switch out.
 
NU Cinccino

Let's see here... with Technician, it can only beat Golurk (The interim king!) with Bullet Seed, and only if it hits at least three times. It doesn't 2HKO Alomomola. It doesn't 2HKO Weezing. It doesn't 3HKO Misdreavus.

With Skill Link, it fares very slightly better, with a 12% chance to break Alomomola. It wouldn't break any new walls. If any thing, I think its addition would make the metagame even more fast-paced. You'd want to have a scarfer, or at least something with 116 or greater base speed. (Hello, Zebstrika, Swellow, and Ninjask.)

Practically everything dropped in usage to accommodate the new drops, but I think, accounting for that, those three have gained in usage quite a bit. Hell, Swellow gained ground despite the new drops. Its ability to OHKO Cinccino couldn't hurt.
 
Not a fan of this thread, espescially considering gen 6 is coming out soon meaning gamefreak will defintaley not make any changes bar maybe free the last DW abilities, but I think I have a cool idea. What if softboiled and milk drink's outside of battle effect could be used during battle (kind of like a potion, but without being an item (therefore usable competitively))?

For those of you who don't know, in-game, milk drink and softboiled can be used outside of battle to transfer 20% of the mon's hp to another mon in the party, but what if we could use this during battle ? It would probably make a big change in OU where blissey could use it's titanic hp stat to share to mons with no recovery, but NU only has miltank who would share an ordinary 78 hp at the cost of a turn. This means miltank could definately not be used as a form of recovery for mons which don't have any except maybe shuckle and duskull who aren't really worth it. I do think it could have a utility with guts abusers however. Pokemon like guts ursaring are on a natural timer and having to wait a protect turn from mons like alomomola can make a big difference on the damage it will cause on the opponent's team. With a miltank in your party however, you could heal up on a predicted protect or switch to misdreavus instead of losing hp or hitting with the wrong move. This combination would obviously be better with a flame orb over the toxic orb, but both could work. Do you guys think this could have any other utility ?
 
What if Miltank got Rapid Spin?

If we speak in terms of NU, then this would instantly boost the hell out of the cow's usage. It would definitely change NU a hella of a lot by making Spikes Offense and even Stall harder. While Stall would love having an awesome Rapid Spinner like Scrappy Tank, it also fears it to death as it effortlessly gets rid of all the hazards on the field. Scrappy Spin Tank also means that abusing Pokemon like Charizard, Jynx, Scolipede, and Articuno suddenly becomes really easy when they don't have to fear Stealth Rock nearly as much as before.

Even so there are drawbacks to Rapid Spin Miltank. The main reason to use it is for easy Rapid Spins, but to be able to achieve this it needs to have Scrappy. This means that it no longer has much business trying to use Sap Sipper or Thick Fat and becomes very predictable. While it can make some Pokemon found on Spikes Offense like Garbodor a liability, it also requires a free turn to be able to Rapid Spin. Against offensive teams it have some difficulty doing so and might have to face heavy damage in the process, possibly getting taking out. Lastly, with Rapid Spin it suffers from even more from 4MSS and can't do everything at once. Rapid Spin and Milk Drink are givens which only leaves 2 slots available for fitting in Stealth Rock, Toxic, Body Slam, Seismic Toss, Heal Bell and the like.

Overall Rapid Spin Miltank sounds really centralizing on paper, but things might be different in practice. What is known for sure though is that it would be an incredible Pokemon to have in NU.
 
if you're going to make full use of scrappy rapid spin miltank then an offensive rapid spin set is the way to go. something like double edge | earthquake | milk drink | rapid spin can pull of spins easily with its high speed and hits pretty hard with prefect coverage, making it useful throughout the match. the defensive set is too strapped for move slots and adding rapid spin would cause it to not perform as well as it normally would defensively. it will also lose a defensive ability in thick fat or sap sipper which is not good. if you really wanted to though, you could use seismic toss | milk drink | rapid spin | heal bell to hit everything for adequate damage and still support the team, but set up sweepers will still walk all over you.
 
I don't think Scrappy Spin is good because nobody would use the other spinners. Instead, I'd prefer if a pokemon like Sableye got Rapid Spin(and it became non-damaging). Imagine Prankster Rapid Spin
 
vyomov said:
I don't think Scrappy Spin is good because nobody would use the other spinners.
Click to expand...

What's bad about using the better spinner in this case, though? If anything it'd one, stop people from complaining about Wartortle, two, allow the other spinners to explore other options outside of just spinning, three, allow more diverse teams in regards to stall rather than having to have a ghost, they can have another option there instead which could prove to be more useful.

Also a slightly related question, but would Rapid Spin still be good if it was illegal with Scrappy? Personally I think it would, given that Miltank has access to attacks like Punishment anyway. However despite that, Missy would likely rise as it doesn't take too much from Punishment and makes Miltank choose between EQ/Punishment/STAB, while it can just Pain Split to preserve itself. Maybe Heal Bell > Milk Drink for sets if it couldn't be used with Scrappy?
 
Rapid Spin Miltank
Heal Bell / Milk Drink / Rapid Spin / Punishment wouldn't beat Misdreavus easily, but Miltank is fast enough to kill Missy before the last Pain Split, and even a +3 HP Fighting from the CM set doesn't always 2HKO. It'd be a grind to win for either side, though Nasty Plot Misdreavus might have the advantage.

What if Golurk learned Mach Punch?

After all, he can fly around "at mach speed", and he's all about punching. I think it would help him get past certain slow Sucker Punches, like those of Golem, Cacturne, not-in-sun Victreebel, and slower Skuntank. A fun tool on the CB set, though it's yet another attack that has a common immunity, and Golurk tends to use all four slots anyway. (Earthquake misses fliers, Shadow Punch misses normals, Drain Punch misses ghosts...) Sacrificing Ice Punch or Drain Punch on that set loses quite a bit of coverage, or Golurk's only recovery without leftovers.
 
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