Interesting tidbit: After that 1st lap tangle with Massa, Sutil was 77 seconds behind the race leader after pitting but at the end of the race the gap only increased to 78 seconds. Hard luck for Sutil, he had quicker pace than Di Resta and would have probably been on the podium were it not for that unfortunate puncture. Still, the pace of Force India are evident and it appears that they are the dark horses this season; I'll be keeping an eye on them. Who would have thought they are the same team languishing at the back of the field in 2008? Marussia/Caterham take note.
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Formula 1 2013
- Thread starter The 1 and Only Lady Gaga
- Start date
.... Just wow. Bias much Jesus Christ.
Sutil had no reason to place his car where he did. If he had been watching the GP2 he would of known it was a dumb ass move to try and go around the outside of that corner, Massa was *always* going to run him off the road. He made a TOTAL rookie mistake. Di Resta kept his nose clean and didn't put his car in any stupid places. If he had managed to get past Alonso earlier with the DRS problems he might of been better off... As it was he still scored a great 4th place. Sutil would of been in clear air for more of the race, especially at the start, which probably aided his times in terms of relative performance. EDIT: ALSO The time difference *negates* the first Pitstop Sutil did, so infact he lost at least 15 seconds to Vettel over the course of the race...
The race was really exciting down the field, lots of groups of cars, especially from the 2 McLarens, Massa and Grosjean before he made his break. Shame that the McLarens got a little too close on occasion and Jenson had to make a 4th stop right near the end. They seem to be improving but I can't wait to see how quick they are in Catalunya with a raft of new upgrades. It was cool seeing all the strategies play out towards the end of the race and the 2 DRS zones make overtaking a real possibility. I'm really surprised how slow Sauber/Williams look compared to some of the other teams at the moment. It seems strange really.
Also: http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2013/04/22/bahrains-repeat-podium-rare-occurence-f1/ Some nice facts and figures form Bahrain :D
Sutil had no reason to place his car where he did. If he had been watching the GP2 he would of known it was a dumb ass move to try and go around the outside of that corner, Massa was *always* going to run him off the road. He made a TOTAL rookie mistake. Di Resta kept his nose clean and didn't put his car in any stupid places. If he had managed to get past Alonso earlier with the DRS problems he might of been better off... As it was he still scored a great 4th place. Sutil would of been in clear air for more of the race, especially at the start, which probably aided his times in terms of relative performance. EDIT: ALSO The time difference *negates* the first Pitstop Sutil did, so infact he lost at least 15 seconds to Vettel over the course of the race...
The race was really exciting down the field, lots of groups of cars, especially from the 2 McLarens, Massa and Grosjean before he made his break. Shame that the McLarens got a little too close on occasion and Jenson had to make a 4th stop right near the end. They seem to be improving but I can't wait to see how quick they are in Catalunya with a raft of new upgrades. It was cool seeing all the strategies play out towards the end of the race and the 2 DRS zones make overtaking a real possibility. I'm really surprised how slow Sauber/Williams look compared to some of the other teams at the moment. It seems strange really.
Also: http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2013/04/22/bahrains-repeat-podium-rare-occurence-f1/ Some nice facts and figures form Bahrain :D
Yes true, which is why I did not blame Massa for that tangle, because he was not at fault here unlike Gutierrez in the previous race, and I do concede that Di Resta did a good job to bring the car in 4th place; if anything I was hoping he could miraculously hold Grosjean off and earn his maiden podium. Still, Sutil's fastest lap was only a tenth slower than Vettel's, so even with clean air that should at least demonstrate the pace of the Force India and where Sutil could have been were it not for that puncture; wouldn't bet against him being on the podium otherwise. Hopefully he'll have better luck in the next few races.
Anyways IMO Gutierrez is seriously dragging Sauber down >_> I do not expect him to be on Hulkenburg's level but really, missing your braking point and crashing yourself - and Sutil - out of the race? We want Kobayashi back.
P.S: Bias is inevitable. The same way you find yourself supporting/defending quite a number of the British racers - even Chilton - and the same way you find yourself dismissing Sutil (And possibly a few other drivers) should say it all. I mean come on admit it, if it were Di Resta who tangled with Massa instead I doubt you would criticize him as badly (E.g: Total rookie mistake? Far too harsh; the likes of Perez, Button and Alonso also were forced wide several times in the race but only Sutil was unlucky enough to get a puncture. Did I mention that Di Resta himself tried a similar move on Sutil - his teammate of all people - in China? He did lose a few positions but was fortunate not to get a puncture whereas Sutil was unlucky enough to get rear-ended by Gutierrez) If anything you'd probably be defending him instead; I'll admit I would probably not pay as much attention to him if he were in Sutil's place. As long as the support/dislike doesn't end up becoming cult-like as with a number of those Alonso fans I see on racing forums, it should be fine though, a degree of rationality must be present.
Of course, we all have different opinions so we should respect that fact :)
Over 2 weeks left before the next race... meanwhile what would you like Codemasters to work on for F1 2013, assuming the creation of the game is in progress? Personally I want a difficulty setting in between Intermediate and Professional, the spike in difficulty from the former to the latter is just huge in F1 2012, the AI somehow starts setting lap times 3 seconds quicker and it's just overwhelming; I could barely scrape it to Q3 even with a perfect lap in a Red Bull.
Challenge mode...
Take real race scenarios and put them into the game to see if you could do better than the driver did. We got a perfect double in Bahrain for this... For example:
Drive as Fernando Alonso and make up time after recovering from a DRS problem.
Drive as Paul Di Resta and Defend for the final 7 laps against a much faster Romain Grosjean.
Stuff like that, I had an older F1 game called F1 World Grand Prix II on the N64 and it had this challenge thing... It was the greatest. In that game (Back in the 1997/98 season) the challenges were like racing as Schumacher at Hungary to make a 3 stop strategy work, or drive as Mike Hakkinen with no front wing at Monza to hold as many places as possible etc. You got scored on how well/bad you did. I'll load it up and see how far I got, I remember some of them being really hard.
Take real race scenarios and put them into the game to see if you could do better than the driver did. We got a perfect double in Bahrain for this... For example:
Drive as Fernando Alonso and make up time after recovering from a DRS problem.
Drive as Paul Di Resta and Defend for the final 7 laps against a much faster Romain Grosjean.
Stuff like that, I had an older F1 game called F1 World Grand Prix II on the N64 and it had this challenge thing... It was the greatest. In that game (Back in the 1997/98 season) the challenges were like racing as Schumacher at Hungary to make a 3 stop strategy work, or drive as Mike Hakkinen with no front wing at Monza to hold as many places as possible etc. You got scored on how well/bad you did. I'll load it up and see how far I got, I remember some of them being really hard.
I'm having enough trouble at the easiest level on F1 2012, lol, I was never good at driving games, but it's really awesome and I like the graphics / environment.
Also I prefer Kobayashi to Gutierrez too, he was pretty good, I bet he could've done much better the last years with a better car. Everyone makes mistakes, tho, didn't you see the McLarens in race? :P
Also I prefer Kobayashi to Gutierrez too, he was pretty good, I bet he could've done much better the last years with a better car. Everyone makes mistakes, tho, didn't you see the McLarens in race? :P
F1 2012 is great, I can't wait to get my wired 360 controller and play it properly (IE not on a keyboard). Ive done a few of the shortened Season Challenge modes and they are pretty fun :)
I hope F1 2013 is better than 12 though, 12 has some really bad load times (At least on my old machine). And I hope they fix the multiplayer to actually have 24 cars on track at once.
I hope F1 2013 is better than 12 though, 12 has some really bad load times (At least on my old machine). And I hope they fix the multiplayer to actually have 24 cars on track at once.
Amen to both, especially with Kobayashi replacing Gutierrez >_> Then again, Petrov also had more than his far share of mistakes in 2010 but he got much better in 2011 and 2012.
Not sure about van der Garde, no particular mistake from him as of late and while he is at the back of the pack and slower than Pic, it is a Caterham and he is a rookie so yeah :/
The challenges would be handy, although it's nigh impossible to defend against someone on brand new tyres who is 5 seconds behind you with 7 laps to go, especially with DRS in effect. Without DRS it would be possible, although still difficult.
Oh and just for laughs maybe they could include Grosjean/Maldonado mode and rank us based on how many drivers we crash out of the race xD
To be fair they have both stayed out of trouble for the first 4 races, and Grosjean is one of the only 4 drivers who scored points in all 4 races so far, hopefully it can stay that way :P
F1 2010, 2011 and 2012 are very challenging simulators, if you like arcade style races better take a look at F1 2009; the graphics are hideous but it's far easier to play and doesn't have a steep learning curve.
Just to keep this thread going (Since it'll be over a week before we get to Spain), what do you guys think of Vitaly Petrov? Personally I want him back in F1 along with Kobayashi; I was furious when Caterham sacked him despite being a pay-driver that saved them from the clutches of Marussia. With the Russian Grand Prix hosted in 2014 I really hope he can make a return, even if it's with a car languishing at the back of the field... he did have his chance with Renault but blew it in 2010 and despite markedly improving in 2011 Renault was going backwards by then, so an upper midfield team seems unlikely.
What are some of the drivers you guys take notice of, despite not being championship contenders?
What are some of the drivers you guys take notice of, despite not being championship contenders?
Kobayashi > All.
Petrov.... Petrov is an interesting case. He was never overly dominated by a team mate (Apart from Kubica obviously), but never really dominated his team mate either. After so few races (Less than 60 iirc) it's really difficult to tell whether or not he was quick or mediocre. I guess he had one or two stand out performances, but nothing super good. I would say he would of probably developed into a solid points scorer (Webber/Barrichello mode) as opposed to a championship capable driver (Alonso/Vettel/Hamilton mode)
Petrov.... Petrov is an interesting case. He was never overly dominated by a team mate (Apart from Kubica obviously), but never really dominated his team mate either. After so few races (Less than 60 iirc) it's really difficult to tell whether or not he was quick or mediocre. I guess he had one or two stand out performances, but nothing super good. I would say he would of probably developed into a solid points scorer (Webber/Barrichello mode) as opposed to a championship capable driver (Alonso/Vettel/Hamilton mode)
I'm with you on Kobayashi, as with almost everyone else. 2010 Suzuka was probably one of the best drives I've seen from him, overtaking several cars in one corner to finish 7th. He didn't do too badly in 2012 but apart from his home race we didn't see anything spectacular either (He might have done it at Spa but as you know, Grosjean) and couple this with the fact that it was the pay-driver (Perez) delivering the standout results instead of the driver without sponsorship, it unfortunately costed him his seat at Sauber :( I understand that Gutierrez is with Sauber for sponsorship reasons but argh, it seriously annoys me we lost Kobayashi for him; missing your braking point and crashing into someone is not acceptable even for a rookie.
With regards to Petrov, I hope he comes back, the way Caterham sacked him was just cold and uncalled for. Kubica did thrash him in 2010 but in mitigation Kubica is Kubica and he was a rookie with no prior F1 experience; after 2010 he got a lot better and is quite solid, if not exceptional.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xX4WSe_6IsY
This is a pretty embarrassing moment for Ferrari... getting overtaken by a Caterham? *facepalm* At this point I was pretty sure Massa would lose his Ferrari seat; he's lucky to have kept it all this while, despite the obvious improvement he's made not many drivers are given so many chances.
This is a pretty embarrassing moment for Ferrari... getting overtaken by a Caterham? *facepalm* At this point I was pretty sure Massa would lose his Ferrari seat; he's lucky to have kept it all this while, despite the obvious improvement he's made not many drivers are given so many chances.
The Free Practice sessions are over... what is seriously going on with McLaren; when was the last time they had such an abysmal (By their standards anyway) start to the season? I was expecting them to be catching up to the front-runners with the new upgrades but if anything it has only made them slip further behind and now it appears they'll have to resign themselves to scrapping with the likes of Force India, Toro Rosso and Sauber.
Nico Rosberg on pole again! Can he translate this to a good result tomorrow though, we all saw what happened on Bahrain :/ Still, he is faring pretty well against Hamilton so far; that should make him less invisible. Webber had an atrocious qualifying session, why only P8? Likewise for Button and to a lesser extent, Sutil. Di Resta did pretty well to bring the car to Q3, but seeing that he barely scraped through Q3 wouldn't it have been more prudent to save your tyres? Because everyone else would have been faster, as evidently seen from the times in Q3 :/
Webber just had a sloppy lap, really. Massa lost out big time in Sector Three too, he was fastest through S2. Looks like Toro Rosso have really caught up, at least in quali, they're fighting it out with FI/McLaren. We'll see how their race pace is though. Speaking of race pace, both Mercedes drivers focused on race stints all throughout free practice, both completing more than 90 laps. Hopefully they'll do better this time. Would love to see Rosberg or Hamilton win. Just so long as its not Vettel or Alonso.
Webber will really have to up his game if he wants to avoid being labelled as a #2 driver, which I believe he already is in the eyes of many... whatever happened to the form he displayed in 2010? Massa was only a thousandth of a second slower than Alonso; why he didn't show this form in 2010, 2011 and almost the whole of 2012? He is pretty lucky to still have a seat at Ferrari, not many people are given this many chances; exactly how Ferrari tolerated him getting overtaken by a Caterham in Valencia 2012 is beyond belief, even for a #2 driver.
With that aside, I would also want either the Mercedes drivers to win (Especially Rosberg), just to make the championship battle far more interesting. Mercedes certainly have the qualifying pace, but they are really hard on their tyres as seen from what happened to Rosberg in Bahrain and that will be an issue they have hopefully resolved by today's race.
Alonso wins the Spanish Grand Prix... I was really hoping that either Rosberg or Hamilton could win the race but obviously Mercedes have not sorted out their tyre degradation issues. At least this result has allowed Vettel/Raikkonen/Alonso to close the gap between themselves and hopefully make it a 3-way fight for the title all the way to the last race. Lotus' run of consecutive points finishes comes to an abrupt halt after one of Grosjean's tyres punctured (Or was it something else) which is a pity really, just when I thought that he would start doing well. Not to mention Sutil's horrendous streak of bad luck, he made a great start from 13th to 8th and the next thing you know his brakes overheated (Or whatever it was) and an ultra-long pitstop meant that he ended up back in 13th once again -.- For both Force India and his sake I hope Lady Luck stops being so mean to him. Monaco in 2 weeks would be most exciting, this track is the ultimate test of driving skills :)
P.S: The 2013 season is starting to be very reminiscent of the 2003 season... Red Bull are no longer the dominant force and are heavily pressured by both Ferrari and Lotus, just like how both McLaren and Williams challenged Ferrari's dominance all season long in 2003. Mercedes is also a lot like Renault in 2003, distinctly being the best of the rest but not quite able to challenge the top 3 teams. Vettel/Raikkonen/Alonso's current 3-way fight for the title is similar to Schumacher/Raikkonen/Montoya's battle in 2003, but will either Raikkonen and/or Alonso put a stop to Vettel's winning streak or will they just fall short like Montoya and Raikkonen did in 2003? Pirelli tyres have seriously levelled the playing field; if Mercedes can learn to be kinder to their tyres they should easily challenge the top 3 teams.
P.S: The 2013 season is starting to be very reminiscent of the 2003 season... Red Bull are no longer the dominant force and are heavily pressured by both Ferrari and Lotus, just like how both McLaren and Williams challenged Ferrari's dominance all season long in 2003. Mercedes is also a lot like Renault in 2003, distinctly being the best of the rest but not quite able to challenge the top 3 teams. Vettel/Raikkonen/Alonso's current 3-way fight for the title is similar to Schumacher/Raikkonen/Montoya's battle in 2003, but will either Raikkonen and/or Alonso put a stop to Vettel's winning streak or will they just fall short like Montoya and Raikkonen did in 2003? Pirelli tyres have seriously levelled the playing field; if Mercedes can learn to be kinder to their tyres they should easily challenge the top 3 teams.
Worst race of the year so far imo. Sutil was so unlucky, again, could have finished ahead of Rosberg... but what a great recovery to almost beat Hamilton after his early drama. Good recovery from Webber who, after stopping from outside the top 10 ended up 5th, and was very close to Vettel's pace apart from the first stint. Team orders from McLaren prevented Perez from passing Button and trying to attack di Resta and Rosberg. Ferrari look strong sadly :( Good effort from Ricciardo to finish in the points :)
Speaking of which, this is Kimi's 22nd consecutive points finish. He has been ultra consistent since his return to F1.
Speaking of which, this is Kimi's 22nd consecutive points finish. He has been ultra consistent since his return to F1.
Massa also drove a good race to go from 9th to 3rd. I think the tyre deg issue has gone too far though, most of the field were on 4 stop strategies which seems a bit excessive (and Rosberg being told on lap 3 to save his tyres).
If I want to jinx Kimi's consistency run then I'd remind you that it's monaco next. The track that sorts the men from the boys.
Sutil is seriously hated by Lady Luck, it's the 4th race in the row he failed to score any points through no fault of his own. He arguably made the best start of the season, moving from 13th to 8th by the first lap only for a botched pit stop to ruin him -.- He would have been anywhere from 5th-7th otherwise. He is far closer to Di Resta than the points would suggest, as with Rosberg to Hamilton, merely being a victim of circimstance.
I don't really like how the season is about tyres, but it has leveled the playing field and has prevented any team from becoming dominant... in fact it's pretty reminiscent of the 2003 season results-wise.
The way he rear-ended Sutil at Bahrain is unacceptable even by rookie standards... we lost Kobayashi for this? Sauber isn't fooling anyone, the main reason he has a seat is because of $$$ as with Perez, but at least the latter has displayed brilliant, if inconsistent driving. As for Williams, I'm sure they will score a handful of points sooner or later, the only Williams driver who has failed to do so over the course of the season is Kazuki Nakajima in 2009. Frank Williams must be pretty downcast, he has seen Williams win 9 WCCs and to see them in their current state must make him wonder what went wrong.
Not saying he's better than Kobayashi, no way. But he possibly has potential, it was a good drive yesterday. I'd much rather have Kobayashi back though. I dunno, they look horrible atm.