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Other Looking Ahead to Gen VI Mark II (SEE POSTS #818 & #858)

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What does this new Charizard evo mean? Is there a spot in the Meta for both? Will one be preferred?

Personally, I still see more viability in a SpA boosted Drought using Charizard-Y, then a type changed, Attack boosted Charizard X. The type change is certainly a plus, but there are other strong Dragon types to fill a Dragon spot. Meanwhile, Charizard's highest stat is its SpA. Lastly, the selection of Drought users is already quite low. While Fire / Dragon typing is awesome, and is something we've all wanted for a while, I think that the Drought-using-Zard fills a much larger hole in current team building.

Am I crazy?
 
4TEHGUY said:
Imagine Sand Rush Garchomp...

Anyways, Mega Charizard X looks to be pretty intresting. Since it gets really good two move coverage it can probably afford to drop its final move for WoW or Roost. It might face some competion for MoxieMence, who doesn't use up a mega stone, though.
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This really should not happen.
 
Copes said:
What does this new Charizard evo mean? Is there a spot in the Meta for both? Will one be preferred?

Personally, I still see more viability in a SpA boosted Drought using Charizard-Y, then a type changed, Attack boosted Charizard X. The type change is certainly a plus, but there are other strong Dragon types to fill a Dragon spot. Meanwhile, Charizard's highest stat is its SpA. Lastly, the selection of Drought users is already quite low. While Fire / Dragon typing is awesome, and is something we've all wanted for a while, I think that the Drought-using-Zard fills a much larger hole in current team building.

Am I crazy?
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Mega Charizard X's best niche would be on balanced sun teams; Ninetales is probably better there because it has better survivability than Charizard. MegaZard X is one of the few physical fire type sweepers, which is important because sun teams can get heaviliy biased towards special attackes (in my experience anyways), so it could even be used on sun offense. Maybe.
 
Honestly, I really don't think Mega Charizard X is going to be anywhere near OU. It still has to switch into SR and lose 50% health before it mega evolves. It can't hold an item, and it uses up your mega-evo team slot. Are you really going to use this when you could use Mega Garchomp or Mega Lucario? I dunno, I just think everyone's excited because it's Charizard, but when you actually look at it in the real metagame, there's no way this is going to be OU.
 
OK, first of all do I need to remind everyone about the number of pokemon that resist Dragon/Fire? Second of all we don't even know what will happen with SR's mechanics, and even if we do, if you are running a Charizard you better run a spinner either way. Not holding an item? It gets an increase in ATK, and has an ability Tough Claws which will boost it's contact moves. It has Dragon Dance as an egg move, and unlike Salamence, Garchomp or Dragonite it's Fire attack is STAB, even if it wants to go mixed.
 
Well, only time will tell, but I think you're forgetting that Fire is one of the worst STABs right now (and will probably be pretty bad in gen 6), while Dragon is also getting a huge nerf thanks to the introduction of Fairy types. Not being able to hold an item is pretty huge, and I think people are under estimating just how important items are. Yes, I'm aware that it gets an increase in attack and has Tough Claws, but it's attack was already pretty low, and with no item to further boost it, I wouldn't be surprised if Dragonite or Salamence hit harder. You just have to consider all the competition it gets from other Dragon types + all the support you need to run to make it viable.
 
ShootinStarmie said:
Honestly, I really don't think Mega Charizard X is going to be anywhere near OU. It still has to switch into SR and lose 50% health before it mega evolves. It can't hold an item, and it uses up your mega-evo team slot. Are you really going to use this when you could use Mega Garchomp or Mega Lucario? I dunno, I just think everyone's excited because it's Charizard, but when you actually look at it in the real metagame, there's no way this is going to be OU.
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The thing is, even without MegaCharizard Y or whatever being OU, I think it highly likely that it will be BL, as Drought will most likely still be broken in the lower tiers.

Also, with MegaCharizard X or whatnot, you still have that nasty double weakness to SR before you megaevolve, which kind of sucks.
 
Actually the introduction Fairy type gives it a niche other Dragons don't have, the option to take Neutral Damage from them (and Ice Types) while being able to hit back with a STAB. And most Physical Dragons carry some form of Fire attack for Steel coverage, and this one gets Stabbed. Also it doesn't matter what it's now considered pre-evo had in stats, look at Volcarona's preevolution, it had more Atk than SpA! Also Garchomp had 102 speed and now it's getting reduced after MegaEvo, etc. Don't judge so quickly..
 
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And just like that Red returns to the paragon of Competitive pokemon. ALL the FEELS.

Also, with MegaCharizard X or whatnot, you still have that nasty double weakness to SR before you megaevolve, which kind of sucks.
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Wait. An ambiguous aspect of Mega-Evolutions is how it plays with switching mechanics. It isn't know if we'll be able to maintain mega-evolutions throughout the battle once transformed or lose them at the switch. Since Mega-Evolutions mechanics haven't been demonstrated with switching. If so then you can easily megavolve early game and come on in later increasing your life much more. Making the DD set perfectly terrifying
 
Soul Fly said:
originsth.jpg


And just like that Red returns to the paragon of Competitive pokemon. ALL the FEELS.



Wait. An ambiguous aspect of Mega-Evolutions is how it plays with switching mechanics. It isn't know if we'll be able to maintain mega-evolutions throughout the battle once transformed or lose them at the switch. Since Mega-Evolutions mechanics haven't been demonstrated with switching. If so then you can easily megavolve early game and come on in later increasing your life much more. Making the DD set perfectly terrifying
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I think the best thing about Charizard X is this scenario though.
"Oh shit Charizard is about to kill me with Fire Blast! Better switch to Heatran/Chansey!"
DD on the switch, go Super Saiyan and Brick Break for massive over kill.
DDZard loses all surprise factor if you reveal it early game.
Also, the number of Ferrothorn you can scare out even in Rain with access to ThunderPunch and good speed is pretty sick. Physical Charizard has a lot more going for it than people realize if you give it "Legendary" level stats and typing.


Also NEUTRAL to water and RESISTS electric. It will be usable in rain, trust me.
 
youngjake93 said:
I think the best thing about Charizard X is this scenario though.
"Oh shit Charizard is about to kill me with Fire Blast! Better switch to Heatran/Chansey!"
DD on the switch, go Super Saiyan and Brick Break for massive over kill.
DDZard loses all surprise factor if you reveal it early game.
Also, the number of Ferrothorn you can scare out even in Rain with access to ThunderPunch and good speed is pretty sick. Physical Charizard has a lot more going for it than people realize if you give it "Legendary" level stats and typing.


Also NEUTRAL to water and RESISTS electric. It will be usable in rain, trust me.
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...Except if you see a Charizard you're going to have a fairly easy time figuring out if it's going to evolve to X or Y (unless there's no team preview- was this ever confirmed or what?) based off the rest of the team. Surprise factor is not that large.
 
Homeslice said:
...Except if you see a Charizard you're going to have a fairly easy time figuring out if it's going to evolve to X or Y (unless there's no team preview- was this ever confirmed or what?) based off the rest of the team. Surprise factor is not that large.
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And Y is going to hit you with Drought Fire Blast while X can hit you with Brick Break. Entirely different switch ins and if you guess wrong... SURPRISE!
 
youngjake93 said:
And Y is going to hit you with Drought Fire Blast while X can hit you with Brick Break. Entirely different switch ins and if you guess wrong... SURPRISE!
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Yeah, but that wasn't my point. To my knowledge there's still Team Preview because I haven't heard whether or not it's confirmed it's gone, and if you see a Venusaur and not a Ninetales and you aren't playing an idiot you can tell it's going to be Y. If there's a weather going on that isn't Sun/Drought, you can all but guarantee it's going to be Y. We still don't know the stats of each, so we can't assume this surprise factor is going to be there. Y seems to be outclassed in almost all ways by another mon, Ninetales possibly being a better drought user (losing 25 rather than 50% is huge) and X seems to outclass it as an attacker because it can get past common counters of Charizard anyways (Blissey/Chansey or Heatran like you pointed out) and honestly Charizard's physical movepool is much better than his special. He has DDance, Flare Blitz doesn't miss, Outrage/Dragon Claw both are boosted by his ability rather than only Y's fire moves only getting the boost from drought, and Earthquake gives it pretty much flawless coverage. If you care about Flare Blitz's recoil you can run Fire Punch (which makes contact) and if you still want Flare Blitz and don't care about DDance there's Roost. Those are only the most common moves, there's also Dragon Rush, Crunch, ThunderPunch, Rock Slide, and Brick Break, all of which are viable moves and if anyone wants to get REALLY obscure or random there's also possibilities for Iron Tail, SubPunch, Shadow Claw, Return, and the possibility to boost through Hone Claws or Swords Dance for different boosting moves. Hone Claws makes Dragon Rush, Iron Tail, and Rock Slide all the more useful and might actually warrant some competitive use.

But of course, this is all going off what we know, and Gen 6 can bring anything along. We don't know stats or if some new moves will get introduced or it'll go Gen 5 on us and all the moves we want to use can't be used because of conflicting egg moves and abilities and what-not. So we have to wait and see.
 
Do you all think this will be a specific thing for Charizard, or might they add X and Y versions to the other Gen 1 starters as well?

Seems kind of strange that Charizard would be the only one to get multiple forms
 
Mewtwo got multiple forms too so I guess it's not out of the question, I mean for all we know all Mega-evos have different forms for each game
Blastoise's new form for Water/Steel

Then again I'm already scared of Mega-Garchomp and would not like to see it get another powerful form, but maybe it's only for Gen 1 mons and it's really a publicity stunt to fix all the mistakes with Pokemon they made in Gen 1 so everyone who only likes Gen 1 will buy the game
 
Barring Heatran, that cockblocker motherfucker... (sorry, I REALLY don't like him), how good is Dragon/Steel/Fire coverage with Fairy's introduction?
 
Heatran is gonna be like #0 in usage, I'm find it very hard to find a reason not to use him unless you run a rain team or HO or something. Anyway, Dragon/Fire is resisted by (BAN ME PLEASE) (due to ability), Fairy/Fire, Fairy/Rock/, Fairy/Water and Fairy/Dragon. Steel would 2 SE and 2 neutrally. Personally I would like for a physical contact ground move like Drill Run to be available to MegaCharX...
 
I see a lot of potential in MegaZard X so let's try to tear into this.

The first thing to point out is that ZardX gets a lot of free turns because of its typing which:
-Resists Bug, Grass, Electric, Fire, & Steel
-Is weak to Ground, Rock, & Dragon
It is neutral to everything else and particularly Water. OU nor any tiers below (Ubers has Reshiram) have ever had a Fire-type neutral to Water, which makes ZardX oh-so-hard to switch into. Think of it as a faster, albeit likely weaker, Darmanitan that has nothing to fear from Water-types. But with that said, I think I have a set that can showcase the potential.

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Charizard (M) @ CharizardniteX
Trait: Blaze (Tough Claws)
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
- Flare Blitz
- Outrage
- Roost
- Sunny Day

This set aims to take full advantage of Zard's new typing. Having a Pokemon immune to burn (hi, Scald) with recovery and weather-cancelling will be pretty hard to play around. With a nice set of resistances and neutralities, Zard is free to Roost-up against Scizor, Jellicent, Jolteon, Tentacruel, Ferrothorn, etc. and/or set up a Sunny Day. Pretty neat, right? Well then there's the offensive coverage. There are very few Pokemon that would enjoy taking the combination of STAB Flare Blitz or STAB Outrage. Our new Fairy-types block Outrage but also cancel it so, if Zard is threatened, it can just swap-out or Flare Blitz.

Like I noted before, Pokemon like Scizor and Jellicent will find life pretty tough with ZardX around as they are pretty much free set up. Politoed will also find it pretty hard to reset its weather as, unless it's Scarfed, ZardX can just change it back. It could Toxic but it would have to risk getting beaten down by Outrage. ZardX is quite the Rain-buster despite being Fire-type.

0 SpAtk Jellicent Scald vs 0 HP/4 SpDef Charizard: 28.62% - 34.34% (3-4 hits to KO)
(Rain) 0 SpAtk Tentacruel Scald vs 0 HP/4 SpDef Charizard: 40.74% - 48.48% (3 hits to KO)
(Rain) 4 SpAtk Politoed Scald vs 0 HP/4 SpDef Charizard: 45.45% - 53.87% (2-3 hits to KO)
(Sun) 4 SpAtk Politoed Scald vs 0 HP/4 SpDef Charizard: 15.49% - 18.52% (6-7 hits to KO)

Bulky Water-types are no issue if you can manage Stealth Rock well. I feel like this will be a staple for Sun teams.
 
Homeslice said:
Mewtwo got multiple forms too so I guess it's not out of the question, I mean for all we know all Mega-evos have different forms for each game
Blastoise's new form for Water/Steel

Then again I'm already scared of Mega-Garchomp and would not like to see it get another powerful form, but maybe it's only for Gen 1 mons and it's really a publicity stunt to fix all the mistakes with Pokemon they made in Gen 1 so everyone who only likes Gen 1 will buy the game
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That'd be awesome for Blastoise, I could definitely see that happening since his Mega Evolution got tons of cannons added to its body. Not sure how good water/steel typing would be though, especially after the defensive nerfs to steel. Could potentially give him a STAB Flash Cannon to use which would be boosted by his new ability though.

Makes me wonder what they could do with another Venusaur form, I can't see it being any typing other than grass/poison.
 
I'm being on the wild side here and hoping though it probably won't happen that the other two Kanto starters get to be Dragons too, Water/Dragon and Grass/Dragon. On the other hand Water/Steel would be nice, and no Ghost or Dark pokemon would stay into Blastoise anyway because of Dark Pulse being boosted.

Anyway, For CharX that weather changing set is really cool, here's a standard dd one:

Dragon Dance
Flare Blitz
Dragon Claw
Iron Head/Contact Physical Ground Move
 
Lord of Bays said:
Barring Heatran, that cockblocker motherfucker... (sorry, I REALLY don't like him), how good is Dragon/Steel/Fire coverage with Fairy's introduction?
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That depends in part on the as-of-yet-unseen Kalos Pokémon. For all we know, there might be something unrevealed out there that walls it completely.
 
Don't get your hopes up for an alternate form of MegaSaur or MegaStoise. Charizard's Mega Stone specifically had "X" in it, while Venusaur's is confirmed to just be Venusaurite. This heavily implies that the known form is Venusaur's only form.

EDIT: Assuming 'Zard only runs STABs, it would be walled by Heatran, Fire/Fairy, Water/Fairy, and Rock/Fairy.
 
Iron Head gives it perfect neutral coverage except for Heatran, which can be trapped by Dugtrio. You can also run Earthquake to hit everything besides Azumarill, but it isn't a contact move, so it will depend on how much of an attack boost CharX gets.
 
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