Other 6th Gen Pokemon OU Candidate Speculation Thread

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Lol, if you think Pain Split is a form of recovery, then I'm at a loss for words.
When your HP is as absolutely terrible as Banette's, and it has priority, it's one of the best forms of recovery out there.

Also, no, that's NOT the reason people use Chansey. There is a MAJOR difference between defense stats (5 base defense is absurdly terrible, Eviolite or no, and although 10 isn't much better, it's SOMETHING - 105 SpD to 135 is also great, and of course the HP difference is there however minor. With 75 Base SpA, you can actually make Forretress or a Dragon/Flying type shudder with a special attack, and with 35 you can't even pretend to.
 
blissey with lefties is bulkier than chansey with eviolite, even though chansey's stats are way higher thanks to eviolite

taunt destroys blissey as well
blissey is really threatening you with that base 75 SpA (yea chansey's is base 35 but seriously, blissey isn't doing squat offensively)
chansey has 10 HP less than blissey, idk if it really makes a big difference
chansey is actually quite a bit better at taking physical hits than blissey (a bold 252 chansey has close to 200 defense and with that health, is pretty good)

it was literally leftovers that makes players use blissey over chansey, that reliable recovery kept blissey alive longer without having to rely on a recovery move like chansey

1. Blissey at least has SOME offense to get around Taunt. Also, Lefties give it some recovery during the down time.
2. 10 base HP doesn't matter that much.
3. I doubt that Blissey is truly that much bulkier.
4. Lefties' impact is way less than you claim, and the numbers support this. Chansey survives more, but can't do jack to stop setup against it. Blissey, as weak as you may think it is, has options chansey doesn't have.
 
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After playing against it no is no way in hell Galvantula won't be OU (unless a better abuser is found). Sticky Web is basically the new best move in the entire game. You just can't compete against teams that use it without resorting to a more defensive team. It puts a hard stop to offense and forces you to run sticky web yourself or Starmie to retain offense while spinning. Stall teams might not fear much against it, but it's so ridiculous that there's literally not reason to NOT run it if you're an offensive team. Galv is basically a hyper-dominant suicide lead against spinnerless teams, and against stall teams in particular with spinners your better off abusing the fact that Bug/Electric/Grass is actually pretty good offensive coverage against a lot of stallmons, and 110 power + 30% para chance from Thunder is no slouch against them either. It's a win/win using it, and vs stall it is no way in hell 5 v 6. It can hold its own without a doubt against any team, and it's practically mandatory if you're not running stall.
 
hey hey hey, keep it civil guys.

Tone down some of the aggression that im seeing in some posts, as a few members are encouraging me to click that infract button.

In addition, cut down on flawed arguments as im seeing a few of them thrown around and it ruins discussion, turning the thread into a shitstorm.
 
there's a reason why blissey is still used over chansey and it's not because blissey has more offense

Leftovers are great on defensive pokemon [Like, say... Blissey]. The longer the pokemon lasts; the better Lefties are.

Technically, Sitrus Berry is better on anything that you don't expect to last 4 turns. [25% heal, Lefties is 1/16th]. Both are useless when it comes to a OHKO.

Also Chansey can only S-Toss when Taunted. Blissey can actually damage things with Thunderbolt and Ice Beam.

Leftovers is much more reliable than Giga Drain and also allows Venusaur to actually use damaging moves instead of a BP 60 attack. Venusaur is not a reliable staller (unless it Mega Evolves for Thick Fat) because strong Fire and Ice types will be can punch right through it.

EDIT: I just realized that Mega Venusaur can't hold Leftovers. It'll have to be Leech Seed or bust.

Synthesis is a lot more reliable now that Permament Rain/Sand/Hail don't exist anymore. Not ideal, but when you only have a couple of weaknesses and are tanky as hell it's pretty good.
 
Well i think that tyrantrum will be the new underrated dragon set up sweeper that requires a lot of support to be effective something like the haxorus of B/W, it wont be a top tier threat but in the hands of someone that knows how to use it and understands its limitations this thing could shine even in the high ladder. its away too powerful for UU thats for sure, i mean those guys consider a 95 attack pokemon godlike just because it can Ddance.
 
Ground does not get the Special Def. boost rock does but he does learn smack down and most probably rockslide via TM so yes the plan does still work just not with ground typeing

what was the point of this post when the person who posted second right after me said this already
 
Well first of all, according to serebii, it does have access to Will-o-Wisp.
http://serebii.net/pokedex-xy/711.shtml

Second of all, Gourgeist will probably overtake Jellicent as the premier OU spinblocker. I think it's fair to assume that the OU spinners will be Starmie, Excadrill, Forretress, with Blastoise, Donphan, Claydol, and Hitmontop being used here and there. Gourgeist is guaranteed to win 1v1 against all of them except Offensive LO Starmie with Ice Beam. Which also reminds me, this thing matches up surprisingly well against Excadrill. +2 EQ deals 39.83-47.32%, RS deals 40.37-47.59%, X-Scissor deals 43.04-50.8%, and Return obviously does nothing. The only move with a chance of 2HKOing is X-Scissor even after SR due to the Grass secondary typing. This thing isn't going to be a top 10 Pokemon or anything, but it definitely has a niche in OU.

Honestly, I think everyone is underestimating Mega Blastoise. I think as the meta goes on, it'll only get more powerful-- as everyone realizes it blasts the crap out of every Ghost type-- including Gourgeist.

People are underestimating Tentacruel too. Tentacruel was still a popular choice amongst top players in 4th Gen before any of this Drizzle business. Even without extra recovery, its excellent resistances and well rounded, well placed stats made it a favorite on stall and semi-stall teams in DPP OU-- it even got some time on the offensive. Of course the level of Pokes has increased again in 6th gen, but honestly, I don't foresee it getting to the point that Tentacruel will lose its usefulness in OU. It might not see an actual OU rank, but I think it'll get as much usage and acknowledgement as at least BW Xatu or Gothitelle.
 
The loss of item slots really does hurt Megas more than it seems, but I feel like this will become more apparent as the meta begins to define itself.

For example, choice band scizor actually has more attack than mega scizor which means if using scizor to one shot priority targets rather than as a set up sweeper, regular would be better. (In fact life orb scizor seems to have more attack, only reason you would use Mega is for increased bulk, no recoil, and the fact that after a swords dance, life orb advantage is negligible.) I'm almost certain life orb on blaziken does more damage too, the mega form basically took away some of his damage and threw that into his speed and bulk.

As far as mega walls, I think they won't end up as pure walls, due to lack of leftovers which really hurts more than it lets on. In the case of venusaur it might be trained 252 hp and 252 offense and just be used to tank hits that it can survive and return a KO or perhaps as an aggressive leech seeder for those wanting it more defensive. I feel like making it a pure offensive pokemon still leaves it open to getting beaten in terms of damage, yet making it a pure wall leaves it with little damage with a lack of lefties to mitigate the damage. Some people argue synthesis and giga drain make up for it in which case it does not in my opinion.

Leftovers is free 1/16 hp, which as the battle goes on will give a ton of hp for free. After 4 turns its already a free 25% of the pokemon's hp. And as a wall you expect to be out for longer periods of time. In the case of mega venusaur, It'll lose to some of the most common walls like Blissey and Skarmory due to lack of passive heal (by lose I don't mean he'll get KOed either, but rather they'll get the chance to set up entry hazards or whatever they wanted to do and run away and get more accomplished). In fact venusaur's offensive coverage is pretty weak so even against pokemon that can't beat it like ferrothorn, it can't kill them back before they set up entry hazards and switch to a suitable threat unless venusaur invests in offense.

Also on venusaur itself rather than a mega overall, it can't be a wall because in a wall stall battle, any wall with a reliable recovery move will outstall it just due to leftovers and more pp in the active heal move. Giga drain sounds good on paper until you realize if you don't deal damage with it, you don't heal with it either. Giga draining a wall won't give you any more heal than a leftovers.
 
Dude, best fairy is going to be either Mega Mawile, Sylveon, or Azumarril, with a potential spot reserved for Mega Gardevoir. Sorry, your Florgess isn't going to be OU unless you can give me a really good, solid reason it SHOULD be in OU and used by the vast majority of people.

Florgess LITERALLY outclasses sylveon, it has higher sdef, speed and SpA, despite how low the difference may be, it's still there
 
On the topic of the importance of Leftovers, it really does make a world of difference. Chansey is amazing, it still has recovery and the option to run fun moves like Counter thanks to its massive defenses. But I've used her a lot and the minute she gets burned (which is super common given the amount of Scalds she takes) or Sandstorm starts (obviously not as big of a deal this gen) it's a struggle. Blissey is definitely smoother to use in every way, but Chansey can give you more mileage depending on the game.

Leftovers makes a huge difference on most defensive Pokemon, Mega Aggron would die to be able to hold it. It's going to be such a tough pick with no recovery at all and no option to just go ham with a Choice Band. :P
 
Outclasses in what role? AFAIK, Florges has too shallow a movepool to be good at all of the things that Sylveon can do.

Tell me sylveon's movepool
tell me
Oh yea, wish, coverage move, moonblast and heal bell, florges can do all of that, and is a better offensive calm minder
 
After playing against it no is no way in hell Galvantula won't be OU (unless a better abuser is found). Sticky Web is basically the new best move in the entire game. You just can't compete against teams that use it without resorting to a more defensive team. It puts a hard stop to offense and forces you to run sticky web yourself or Starmie to retain offense while spinning. Stall teams might not fear much against it, but it's so ridiculous that there's literally not reason to NOT run it if you're an offensive team. Galv is basically a hyper-dominant suicide lead against spinnerless teams, and against stall teams in particular with spinners your better off abusing the fact that Bug/Electric/Grass is actually pretty good offensive coverage against a lot of stallmons, and 110 power + 30% para chance from Thunder is no slouch against them either. It's a win/win using it, and vs stall it is no way in hell 5 v 6. It can hold its own without a doubt against any team, and it's practically mandatory if you're not running stall.

In my mind this is going to bring back the lead meta/antimetagame. People will be running more Aerodactyls, Infernapes, Ambipoms, Crobats, Novierns, Smeargles, and Azelfs. All pokemon that I'd be really happy to see in the lead position instead of politoed, tyranitar, ninetales, terrakion, cloyster, and landorus. Dragonite is still a damn good lead, and the HP ice nerf is a nice touch.

Web also promotes the use of levitaters and flyers, which in turn heavily promote the use of SR. Starmie useage is gonna be at an all time high. Galvantula definitely shakes up the game but with so many priority pokemon, bulky pokemon, nerfed special moves, and nerfed weather I think we're in for a pretty fair metagame.
 
Florges beats sylveon at some things, but there are things sylveon does better too.

As for leads team preview still kinda allows you to see what you expect their lead to be and send an appropriate pokemon. Of course then mind games start and people run aerodactyls but don't send them out as a lead...
 
In my mind this is going to bring back the lead meta/antimetagame. People will be running more Aerodactyls, Infernapes, Ambipoms, Crobats, Novierns, Smeargles, and Azelfs. All pokemon that I'd be really happy to see in the lead position instead of politoed, tyranitar, ninetales, terrakion, cloyster, and landorus. Dragonite is still a damn good lead, and the HP ice nerf is a nice touch.

Web also promotes the use of levitaters and flyers, which in turn heavily promote the use of SR. Starmie useage is gonna be at an all time high. Galvantula definitely shakes up the game but with so many priority pokemon, bulky pokemon, nerfed special moves, and nerfed weather I think we're in for a pretty fair metagame.

While all these sound great. Take note that Genesect, Deo-D, Deo-S are all unbanned and will be used quite a bit too. Now whether they get banned is up for the community to decide
 
The loss of item slots really does hurt Megas more than it seems, but I feel like this will become more apparent as the meta begins to define itself.

For example, choice band scizor actually has more attack than mega scizor which means if using scizor to one shot priority targets rather than as a set up sweeper, regular would be better. (In fact life orb scizor seems to have more attack, only reason you would use Mega is for increased bulk, no recoil, and the fact that after a swords dance, life orb advantage is negligible.) I'm almost certain life orb on blaziken does more damage too, the mega form basically took away some of his damage and threw that into his speed and bulk.

As far as mega walls, I think they won't end up as pure walls, due to lack of leftovers which really hurts more than it lets on. In the case of venusaur it might be trained 252 hp and 252 offense and just be used to tank hits that it can survive and return a KO or perhaps as an aggressive leech seeder for those wanting it more defensive. I feel like making it a pure offensive pokemon still leaves it open to getting beaten in terms of damage, yet making it a pure wall leaves it with little damage with a lack of lefties to mitigate the damage. Some people argue synthesis and giga drain make up for it in which case it does not in my opinion.

Leftovers is free 1/16 hp, which as the battle goes on will give a ton of hp for free. After 4 turns its already a free 25% of the pokemon's hp. And as a wall you expect to be out for longer periods of time. In the case of mega venusaur, It'll lose to some of the most common walls like Blissey and Skarmory due to lack of passive heal (by lose I don't mean he'll get KOed either, but rather they'll get the chance to set up entry hazards or whatever they wanted to do and run away and get more accomplished). In fact venusaur's offensive coverage is pretty weak so even against pokemon that can't beat it like ferrothorn, it can't kill them back before they set up entry hazards and switch to a suitable threat unless venusaur invests in offense.

Also on venusaur itself rather than a mega overall, it can't be a wall because in a wall stall battle, any wall with a reliable recovery move will outstall it just due to leftovers and more pp in the active heal move. Giga drain sounds good on paper until you realize if you don't deal damage with it, you don't heal with it either. Giga draining a wall won't give you any more heal than a leftovers.

Grassy Terrain is the lefties replacement for Venusaur. It also boosts its Giga Drain/other grass moves. It's weird how no one is talking about that move. The only problem is the 5 turn limit, though it's not that hard to set back up(if Saur gets it, at least).

On the topic of the importance of Leftovers, it really does make a world of difference. Chansey is amazing, it still has recovery and the option to run fun moves like Counter thanks to its massive defenses. But I've used her a lot and the minute she gets burned (which is super common given the amount of Scalds she takes) or Sandstorm starts (obviously not as big of a deal this gen) it's a struggle. Blissey is definitely smoother to use in every way, but Chansey can give you more mileage depending on the game.

Leftovers makes a huge difference on most defensive Pokemon, Mega Aggron would die to be able to hold it. It's going to be such a tough pick with no recovery at all and no option to just go ham with a Choice Band. :P
On Pokemon like Aggron, yes. It has no form of recovery save rest, though it may be able to abuse that with its typing, defenses, and filter. Lefties are great on a pokemon that does not have access to any reliable recovery. But there are tanks out there who just don't need it as much as others do. Even then, it's less than ideal.

Also, Chansey has Natural Cure, doesn't it? And heal bell, too.
 
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based on the Stats Types Abilities & move pool's. my candidates are Hawlucha, Aegislash, Furfrou, Sylveon, Goodra, Noivern,
Prior gen 6 pokemon that i believe can be OU or even Ubertier with the new typing is Blissey
Mega-Evo's: Aerodactyl Heracross Pinsir Ampharos Gardevoir Medicham
 
Something that costs both a moveslot and momentum is not a replacement for something that doesn't.
Well, it does benefit the whole team with passive healing and Grass boosts. It's not fantastic, but it has its uses. Also, unlike lefties, the effect cannot be stolen from you.

I'm sorry but I really can't see this being an OU Pokémon. It has a cool ability but everything else about it is just amazingly mediocre.

I agree. Fur Coat is a solid ability, but Furfrou does not have the other stats to back it up. It needed more offense to go with that physical bulk the ability provided.
 
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