Pokémon Charizard

[Realm]

You realize that Xzard has to switch in to 4x SE stealth rock too? Like, that's not a Yzard only thing. Specifically this line confuses me; "You have to get the Mega Evo (which will mean surviving a hit on a switch-in and possible SR)", you mention it in the Yzard section but it is very true for both X and Y (Even if you meant to compare it to Ninetails, it's still true for Ninetales as well).

Charizard X can MEvo and then switch out and be safe from 50% even if SR's are out.

Char X and Char Y can both lead to avoid SR, and can both be set up to switch safely, but only Char X will be safe(er) to switch after all of that is already completed. That's why I can see Char X being the more popular choice for Rapid Spin teams. Not to mention Char X can use protect on the turn it Mega evolves and then switch in and out safely from then on if it chooses. Char Y would still have to worry of SR.

Also, what kind of buff did defog get?

 

[Ckarasu]

Charizard X can MEvo and then switch out and be safe from 50% even if SR's are out.

Char X and Char Y can both lead to avoid SR, and can both be set up to switch safely, but only Char X will be safe(er) to switch after all of that is already completed.

Also, what kind of buff did defog get?

Blows away hazards from your side, as well as its previous effects.

 

[Magicfire]

I actually think Defog might raise both the Mega Evolutions to OU, since hazards are still the biggest issue for Charizard. I mean, Defog can't be blocked like Rapid Spin, but Ubers is still not the place for Charizard, with its fraility.

 

[Alphanex20]

I actually think Defog might raise both the Mega Evolutions to OU, since hazards are still the biggest issue for Charizard. I mean, Defog can't be blocked like Rapid Spin, but Ubers is still not the place for Charizard, with its fraility.

Defog Crobat and Empoleon are probably the best abusers of it. Crobat's stallbreaking is already (in)famous and U-Turn support is helpful (since both Megazards destroy the Steels Crobat hates). Empoleon is bulky as hell with rocks, Scald burns, and Roar all going for it. All in all, It's looking pretty solid, but like you said they are nowhere near Uber level (they need a LOT of team support to work).

 

[Realm]

It's actually not that hard to support them with defog and all the great users of it we have now (even Charizard can learn defog, too).

We don't really need to worry about Spin Blockers anymore, either.

 

[X5Dragon]

Don't forget, defog has prankster users too, for example Murkrow.

 

[56k]

Seeing plenty of amazing Adamant + Dragon Dance sets but I'm gonna go against the grain here.

Charizard @ Charizardite X
Ability: Tough Claws
Nature: Jolly
4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
-Swords Dance / Dragon Dance
-Flare Blitz
-Dragon Claw / Outrage
-Earthquake / Stone Edge

Charizard and Charizard X are base 100s. What does going Jolly over Adamant get you? (besides speed tieing other base 100s)

Plus natured base 87s to base 99s can outspeed your unboosted Charizard. With jolly you always outspeed them without the boost. This is actually a crucial speed range and all of the pokemon there are wishing that the base 100s are Adamant or EV'd bulky. They are playing a guessing game, hoping to outspeed you, and you are not guessing at all.

Excedrill, Zekrom, Venomoth, Roserade, Reshiram, Porygon-Z, Pikachu, Moltres, Meloetta, Lucario, Kyogre, Khangaskan, Ho-oh, Groudon, Giratina, Giratina-O, Dialgia, Deoxys-D, Landorus-T, Xatu, Uxie, Rayquaza, Kyurem, Kyurem-B, Kyurem-W, Jynx, Houndoom, Gliscor, Darmanitan, Haxorus, Hydreigon, Genesect

Swords Dance over Dragon Dance is a significant commitment but it has purposes. One, at +2 you just straight destroy even more things that could at least handle you at +1.

You can break through intimidate landorus-t, intimidate gyarados, hippowdon, and multiscale dragonite to name a few.

Second, even with a dragon dance, there are actually a significant amount of scarfers that can beat you anyway. Garchomp, Lati@s, Terrakion, Landorus.

Dragon dance of course has its merits and should be considered in any set. However, just because you have DD doesnt mean you should use adamant.

 

[Bravadorado]

Empoleon will probably become OU with the ability to use Defog and then place his own SR. Not to mention he has excellent typing against both fairies and dragons.

Crobat has gotten many many buffs going into Gen VI, he's almost certainly OU now with the ability to destroy stallers.

 

[Magicfire]

Empoleon will probably become Uber with the ability to use Defog and then place his own SR. Not to mention he has excellent typing against both fairies and dragons.

Crobat has gotten many many buffs going into Gen VI, he's almost certainly OU now with the ability to destroy stallers.

Oh yeah, Water/Steel is great. Ice Beam for Dragons and, uh, Flash Cannon for fairies?

 

[Realm]

Fairy hurt most Dragons, but not Charizard X. It's something that makes him stand out and could potentially make him a good Fairy counter for Dragon teams, especially since it's a safe switch for Charizard if you predict a Fairy move, as he's actually resistant to Fairy being Fire/Flying. Then he can MEvo and Dragon Dance for a free turn as the opponent may need to switch after that.

 

[Jaguar360]

Seeing plenty of amazing Adamant + Dragon Dance sets but I'm gonna go against the grain here.

Charizard @ Charizardite X
Ability: Tough Claws
Nature: Jolly
4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
-Swords Dance / Dragon Dance
-Flare Blitz
-Dragon Claw / Outrage
-Earthquake / Stone Edge

Charizard and Charizard X are base 100s. What does going Jolly over Adamant get you? (besides speed tieing other base 100s)

Plus natured base 87s to base 99s can outspeed your unboosted Charizard. With jolly you always outspeed them without the boost. This is actually a crucial speed range and all of the pokemon there are wishing that the base 100s are Adamant or EV'd bulky. They are playing a guessing game, hoping to outspeed you, and you are not guessing at all.

Excedrill, Zekrom, Venomoth, Roserade, Reshiram, Porygon-Z, Pikachu, Moltres, Meloetta, Lucario, Kyogre, Khangaskan, Ho-oh, Groudon, Giratina, Giratina-O, Dialgia, Deoxys-D, Landorus-T, Xatu, Uxie, Rayquaza, Kyurem, Kyurem-B, Kyurem-W, Jynx, Houndoom, Gliscor, Darmanitan, Haxorus, Hydreigon, Genesect

Swords Dance over Dragon Dance is a significant commitment but it has purposes. One, at +2 you just straight destroy even more things that could at least handle you at +1.

You can break through intimidate landorus-t, intimidate gyarados, hippowdon, and multiscale dragonite to name a few.

Second, even with a dragon dance, there are actually a significant amount of scarfers that can beat you anyway. Garchomp, Lati@s, Terrakion, Landorus.

Dragon dance of course has its merits and should be considered in any set. However, just because you have DD doesnt mean you should use adamant.

I've been using this set too! Specifically Dragon Dance, Flare Blitz, Dragon Claw, and Earthquake. It's been working pretty well for me in Gen 5.5 on Pokemon Showdown.

Both Mega Charizards have great potential and will probably both be in OU in my opinion. Mega Charizard X can serve a variety of purposes, have a lot of resistances and somewhat high Defense along with great Attack and Special Attack, allowing it to pull off both mixed and physical sweeper sets effectively. Mega Charizard Y is a great special sweeper. It has extremely high Special Attack and is able to get one turn Solarbeams and extremely powerful Fire Blasts/Flamethrowers/Overheats. It also can take Surfs and Hydro Pumps like a champ now (until the sun ends at least) and can survive a Thunderbolt/Thunder with its high Special Defense. Stealth Rock is obviously horrible for Charizard, but once it gets past that it is a monster.

 

[Bravadorado]

Oh yeah, Water/Steel is great. Ice Beam for Dragons and, uh, Flash Cannon for fairies?

Can't tell if serious or mocking....

Either way, I was talking about Defensive typing, as Empoleon is generally used as a defensive pokemon. He's resistant to basically everything, including Dragon and Fairy. And finding a pokemon to cover the 3 things he is weak to is very easy.

 

[Realm]

The main thing X Zard has to worry about is faster Dragons. He can take Dragonite without much trouble, but he'll struggle with Garchomp. Unless you use Outrage, because I suspect Char X can tank one hit from Garchomp (because increased def) and then OHKO him with Outrage.

Does anyone know if Dragon Claw/Dragon Rush can OHKO Garchomp with X?

Online, Garchomp has really been the only thing that's given me trouble. Earthquake/ground weakness hasn't been a problem as he usually tanks it and after DD, he can sweep most things. (Whether you want mixed or not is up to you)

 

[Magicfire]

Can't tell if serious or mocking....

Either way, I was talking about Defensive typing, as Empoleon is generally used as a defensive pokemon. He's resistant to basically everything, including Dragon and Fairy. And finding a pokemon to cover the 3 things he is weak to is very easy.

Oh no...I was serious. I was just saying, I think getting rid of his counters quickly or forcing them out might be very helpful to Charizard.

The main thing X Zard has to worry about is faster Dragons. He can take Dragonite without much trouble, but he'll struggle with Garchomp.

Online, Garchomp has really been the only thing that's given me trouble. Earthquake/ground weakness hasn't been a problem as he usually tanks it and after DD, he can sweep most things. (Whether you want mixed or not is up to you)

Outrage is very tempting to use. Not much will survive that from him, same with Flare Blitz.

I think Dragonite can easily beat him as long as Multiscale is up, which guarantees that he can survive a hit. Don't forget, you can always Scarf some slower Pokemon to outspeed Charizard.

 

[mrglass]

The main thing X Zard has to worry about is faster Dragons. He can take Dragonite without much trouble, but he'll struggle with Garchomp.

Online, Garchomp has really been the only thing that's given me trouble. Earthquake/ground weakness hasn't been a problem as he usually tanks it and after DD, he can sweep most things. (Whether you want mixed or not is up to you)

Outrage is very tempting to use. Not much will survive that from him, same with Flare Blitz.

Speed will always be an issue for Zard. And with the defog buff, it's going to be difficult to keep Sticky Web up to help Charizard improve it's speed.

With Sticky Web up though, Zard X still has trouble with Scarfed Mence and Scarfed Dragonite, as well as the Noivern, Latis and Hydreigon.

And Thundrus and Aerodactyl for Y

 

[Jaguar360]

I think Dragonite can easily beat him as long as Multiscale is up, which guarantees that he can survive a hit. Don't forget, you can always Scarf some slower Pokemon to outspeed Charizard.

I don't have the calcs, but Dragonite will probably need an Outrage or Draco Meteor to OHKO MegaZardX. Dragonite is rarely Scarfed anyway. Two Dragon Claws from MegaZard X should take out your average Dragonite.

 

[Magicfire]

I don't have the calcs, but Dragonite will probably need an Outrage or Draco Meteor to OHKO MegaZardX. Dragonite is rarely Scarfed anyway. Two Dragon Claws from MegaZard X should take out your average Dragonite.

I didn't say anything about Scarfing Dragonite. If Charizard does go for Dragon Claw, then Dragonite can just go for one of the moves you said and outright destroy it.

 

[Realm]

With Defog and Rapid Spin, if I'm using X, I'll be getting him out there only when it's safe as much as possible. So under conditions where he doesn't get smacked by rocks, I think Flare Blitz can be worth it. It's some pretty massive damage. But you can still use Fire Punch/Flame Charge if you're worried about the damage, or just run a mixed X.

By the way - How many Dragon Dances/Flame Charges will it take to outrun a scarfed Dragonite and Garchomp, respectively?

 

[Ultimathunder]

Well, with Defog and Rapid Spin, if I'm using X, I'll be getting him out there only when it's safe as much as possible. So under conditions where he doesn't get smacked by rocks, I think Flare Blitz can be worth it. It's some pretty massive damage. But you can still use Fire Punch/Flame Charge if you're worried about the damage, or just run a mixed X.

By the way - How many Dragon Dances/Flame Charges will it take to outrun a scarfed Dragonite and Garchomp, respectively?

Dragonite has 80 base speed, so zard outpaces after +1
Chomp has 102 base speed (non mega) so you will need two.

But i think if zard has not taken SR damage it can take one dragon claw from scarfchomp (outrage is not viable anymore) and retaliate

I don't know if I should get X or Y... I like both legends.

 

[Realm]

Well, the good thing is that if the opponent makes the wrong guess of which Mega you're using, that can result in a free Dance/Flame Charge/Tailwind. So the fact that he has two diverse Mega's by itself means he might be able to get away with an easy +1 speed boost just naturally. In the case of TailWind, he'll outspeed even scarfers if he gets away with that one..for a few turns, anyway.

I would probably always use a +Speed nature for both Charizard Mega's.

 

[RayStrikeAbius]

As one might guess from my lovely profile pic here, I am a supporter of Mega Charizard X. And I admit, initially it was only because I thought the spiky black design was cooler than the beefed-up still-orange one. Didn't even look at the stats or abilities at first.

But ever since I evolved that Charmander, Charizard has become a staple core member of my team, and my strategy. I mean, duh, Fire/Dragon? This is what we've been asking for all along. So what if it's only a Mega Evolution? That just makes it even more useful and cool, in my opinion.

X-izard has 130 / 130 base offensive stats, as opposed to the original 84 / 109. The Tough Claws ability obviously ramps up his Physical Attack strength even further, making him more Physically inclined. However, those boosted stats not only add to his Physical Attack power, but also his Special Attack power, something I think a lot of people overlook. Yes, Y-izard is more suited for the special attacks, but X-izard can pull them off too, allowing him to manage an effective Mixed Attack set WAY better than regular Charizard and Y-izard can. Ultimately, THAT is why I like him more that Y-izard. He can multi-task, rather than having to sit down and rely on one or the other. Even if the only Special Move I ever really use with him is Flamethrower/Fire Blast, having the OPTION to go Special on certain opponents, and Physical on others, makes him much more promising IMO.

 

[Bravadorado]

allowing him to manage an effective Mixed Attack set WAY better than regular Charizard and Y-izard can. Ultimately, THAT is why I like him more that Y-izard. He can multi-task, rather than having to sit down and rely on one or the other. Even if the only Special Move I ever really use with him is Flamethrower/Fire Blast, having the OPTION to go Special on certain opponents, and Physical on others, makes him much more promising IMO.

YZard can swap a single move for a sun boosted 104 attack Flare Blitz. I'm pretty sure 50% more damage on a 120 BP move is better than any special move XZard could pull off, even if his special attack is 26 points higher than YZards attack.

 

[Realm]

YZard can swap a single move for a sun boosted 104 attack Flare Blitz. I'm pretty sure 50% more damage on a 120 BP move is better than any special move XZard could pull off, even if his special attack is 26 points higher than YZards attack.

You're forgetting Tough Claws.

 

[Bravadorado]

You're forgetting Tough Claws.

Tough Claws on a Fire Blast? Whut. He's saying that YZard can't pull off a physical move because of his lower attack, and that due to XZard's stats he can pull off a flamethrower/fireblast better. Flamethrower and Fireblast aren't contact moves.

In short, HE'S the one forgetting something, and that thing is Drought. YZard can do huge damage with a sun boosted flare blitz to a special wall, probably more if not equal to the amount that XZard can do to a defensive wall with Fireblast.

 

[RayStrikeAbius]

Well, I have to admit you have a point there. But in my eyes, X-izard is still better because:

1) He isn't killed by so many common attacks (i.e. Stealth Rock and Stone Edge)
2) Like Realm said, Tough Claws, which stays active for as long as XZard does, while YZard's Drought lasts 5 turns and then sputters out.
3) Having THAT much power on an attack like Flare Blitz can actually be more detrimental than helpful, considering the massive recoil damage you're practically begging for. I prefer Special Fire STAB from Flamethrower and Fire Blast, and leaving the Physical attacks to the less self-harmful moves. Call me chicken, but I like to play it safe, and I prefer my Pokémon being able to last.

Also, I didn't say that XZard could pull off Special Moves better than YZard can. I know that's just plain false. I said that XZard can pull off a MIXED Attack set better than YZard. Totally different idea there, dude.

In the end though, it all really comes down to preference. Some people will agree with me, others will agree with you, others will disagree with both of us. We're all people here.