Other 6th Gen Pokemon OU Candidate Speculation Thread

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Kriptini said:
Doesn't Grassy Terrain also heal the enemy team? Lol
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Do walls really care a whole lot? They just want to stick around a while. Though, I imagine there are a few walls that may care. Also, it does not heal anything with levitate or is flying type. I dunno, but it's an option and I'm not too concerned about it healing the opponent so long as I'm healed and am able to stick around.

A lot of sweepers are too frail to benefit too much from it, though there are some bulky ones I suppose. The buff to Venusaur's Grass moves kind of mitigates the healing. Again, it's an option if you're dead set on giving Venusaur some passive healing.
 
Ckarasu said:
Do walls really care a whole lot? They just want to stick around a while. Though, I imagine there are a few walls that may care. Also, it does not heal anything with levitate or is flying type. I dunno, but it's an option and I'm not too concerned about it healing the opponent so long as I'm healed and am able to stick around.
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It's going to help your opponent set up on your wall, and you only get five turns to stall. You're going to be hard-pressed to make it work for you.
 
Kriptini said:
It's going to help your opponent set up on your wall, and you only get five turns to stall. You're going to be hard-pressed to make it work for you.
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Depends on Saur's moveset, to some degree. Venusaur has a lot of special attack in its mega form, as well as a good physical movepool(well, good enough). Mega Venusuar doesn't need to stall with it offenses, and the passive healing will enable it to focus on forcing things out while surviving.
 
My initial candidates for OU would have to be Greninja and Aegislash. Greninja is just bloody fast and has good typing, and Protean ensures he gets STAB every single time. Aegislash is really good for mindgames with sweepers that commit for too long at trying to kill him.

In regards to Zygarde, he's bulky, but that's all he's got. If Xerneas or Yveltal start to become really popular in Ubers, Zygarde will be there as their counter, but that's really all we can rely on Zygarde at the moment.

And those people who are saying Yveltal will only be OU, Oblivion Wing is just too god-freaking amazing with his stats and typing to be just OU.
 
I think Roserade can have another stint in OU this gen... if people pay attention to its existence of course. :P

It resists Fairy and hits them back with STAB Sludge Bombs, can now run Spikes + Sleep Powder legally, packs some other key resists (Fighting, Electric, Water namely), and is now immune to both Spore and Toxic! On top of all that, base 125 Sp.Atk is nothing to sneeze at...

Sounds pretty swell for an offensive team member. :]
 
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So after playing around a bit. I'm going to retract my comments about some of the Megas. Blastoise and Pinsir are a lot better than I gave them credit for. Blastoise is a great Rapid Spinner as long as you're using it on a heavily offensive oriented team, as you'll probably only have to spin one or two times per game. Being prone to all forms of hazards with no reliable recovery is a pain in the ass though, it has no business being the dedicated hazard clearer on a defensive team. Pinsir isn't exactly the best offensive option among Megas, but with proper support, it can still make an impact. I do however, find Defog to be a subpar support option. This thing really wants those hazards to help it score KOs. Mega Tyranitar really needs those Leftovers, not as good as it seems on paper. I maintain that Venusaur is a terrible choice as a Mega and nothing since has made me change my mind. It's just there. Sure his SpA is decent on paper, but in reality it's unworkable. This thing has no access to SpA boosting moves aside from the questionable Growth, and no access to Life Orb or Choice Specs doesn't help either. Grass and Poison are both poor STAB options, and it's best coverage move for these awful STABs, Earthquake, jams up the Sleep Powder slot, which is pretty much all an offensive Venusaur is good for. Add in lack of Leftovers and reliable recovery and you pretty much have a meatshield that just sits there taking hits. You could theoretically use a shut-down set with some combination of Toxic/Roar/Leech Seed/Stun Spore, but the thing it's supposed to counter: Lucario, couldn't care less about Venusaur's STABs and you'd have to forego either a support move or your STAB to run Earthquake. All in all, a Pokemon that doesn't fit.

DarkFuzz said:
My initial candidates for OU would have to be Greninja and Aegislash. Greninja is just bloody fast and has good typing, and Protean ensures he gets STAB every single time. Aegislash is really good for mindgames with sweepers that commit for too long at trying to kill him.

In regards to Zygarde, he's bulky, but that's all he's got. If Xerneas or Yveltal start to become really popular in Ubers, Zygarde will be there as their counter, but that's really all we can rely on Zygarde at the moment.

And those people who are saying Yveltal will only be OU, Oblivion Wing is just too god-freaking amazing with his stats and typing to be just OU.
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Zygarde is about as far a counter to Xerneas as you can get. I agree that Yveltal has 0 chance of being OU though. The base 99 base Speed didn't seem to bother Genesect. A Pokemon with better bulk and access to Oblivion Wing AND Roost should at least in theory, be able to impose it's will.
 
will aurorus have a shot in ou? i feel like it has nice offensive coverage to take advantage of (especially freeze dry), but those two priority weaknesses tho... >.<
 
New World Order said:
I maintain that Venusaur is a terrible choice as a Mega and nothing since has made me change my mind. It's just there. Sure his SpA is decent on paper, but in reality it's unworkable. This thing has no access to SpA boosting moves aside from the questionable Growth, and no access to Life Orb or Choice Specs doesn't help either. Grass and Poison are both poor STAB options, and it's best coverage move for these awful STABs, Earthquake, jams up the Sleep Powder slot, which is pretty much all an offensive Venusaur is good for. Add in lack of Leftovers and reliable recovery and you pretty much have a meatshield that just sits there taking hits. You could theoretically use a shut-down set with some combination of Toxic/Roar/Leech Seed/Stun Spore, but the thing it's supposed to counter: Lucario, couldn't care less about Venusaur's STABs and you'd have to forego either a support move or your STAB to run Earthquake. All in all, a Pokemon that doesn't fit.
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Reliable recovery: Synthesis(yes, it is way better now that weather is nerfed), Giga Drain(75 BP is great for a recovery attack) and Leech Seed. These are reliable recovery, by definition. Also gets support from Grassy Terrain, and Lucario can't benefit much from it due to its relative frailty. Not something I'd want to fall back on, though.
Boosting: Growth is great in sun, and has synergism with synthesis. Also has access to Curse, though it's not the greatest option for it(Growth is). Can get Amnesia as well, which works somewhat with its bulk.
Has special attacks: Sludge Bomb is good for dealing with Fairy/Grass, Giga Drain is good against Water/Ground/Rock types. Has a physical movepool with Earthquake and Power whip. Can run offense with no need of anything but Growth, mixed, or pure support. I cannot say if it learns anything else through breeding, though. Its moveset, as it is, just works for it. I will admit that it could use more, but its stats let it get away with what it has. Do remember that Gengar with Sludge Bomb is seriously being considered as a good idea, as Poison is way more useful than it was last generation.

Not saying it's the best Mega, but it certainly isn't a waste.
 
The Great Gastly said:
I think Roserade can have another stint in OU this gen... if people pay attention to its existence of course. :P

It resists Fairy and hits them back with STAB Sludge Bombs, can now run Spikes + Sleep Powder legally, packs some other key resists (Fighting, Electric, Water namely), and is now immune to both Spore and Toxic! On top of all that, base 125 Sp.Atk is nothing to sneeze at...

Sounds pretty swell for an offensive team member. :]
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It gets Dazzling Gleam too, which is a miracle for its coverage issues.
 
Ckarasu said:
Reliable recovery: Synthesis(yes, it is way better now that weather is nerfed), Giga Drain(75 BP is great for a recovery attack) and Leech Seed. These are reliable recovery, by definition. Also gets support from Grassy Terrain, and Lucario can't benefit much from it due to its relative frailty. Not something I'd want to fall back on, though.
Boosting: Growth is great in sun, and has synergism with synthesis. Also has access to Curse, though it's not the greatest option for it(Growth is). Can get Amnesia as well, which works somewhat with its bulk.
Has special attacks: Sludge Bomb is good for dealing with Fairy/Grass, Giga Drain is good against Water/Ground/Rock types. Has a physical movepool with Earthquake and Power whip. Can run offense with no need of anything but Growth, mixed, or pure support. I cannot say if it learns anything else through breeding, though. Its moveset, as it is, just works for it. I will admit that it could use more, but its stats let it get away with what it has. Do remember that Gengar with Sludge Bomb is seriously being considered as a good idea, as Poison is way more useful than it was last generation.

Not saying it's the best Mega, but it certainly isn't a waste.
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As much as I might not like it, Ckarasu does make some very convincing points. It will be interesting to see Mega Venusaur play out.
 
I just want to give a little shout out to Noivern. I'm thinking he's at least lower OU material. Good speed, good powered moves to make up for his average spA, Infiltrator. I know that someone pointed out that he's weak to ice and fairy, but I pair him with Aegislash and problem solved!
 
Opinions on some popular Pokemon (note how I didn't really play with any of them yet because the gen 6 meta is too beta and unstable for my liking):

Aegislash: I like how versatile this guy is. Whether he will live up to his hype or not, who knows, but for all I know he can become a boosting sweeper, an all-out attacker or even a wall depending on what moves you run. And his typing is pure love. OU for sure.
Doublade: Sometimes mentioned as one of these pre-evos that outclass their daddy, I thinkhe won't be as good as Aegislash, but solid RU material at the very least. He's extremely tanky, and considering this gen's likely to become the generation of tanks, that's only a good thing for him.
Greninja: STAB on everything and fast Spikes is pretty damn good. I can see this guy being UU at least, probably OU because of the hype though. His frailty lets him down, so he requires some smart play in order to avoid getting hit by strong neutral hits, but hsi versatility make him a very interesting choice.
Barbaracle: tbh I don't even care whether he's better or worse than Cloyster, he'll be UU if you ask me. I never was too impressed by Gen 5 Cloyster, no amtter what moves he used, I always had something that could take him on without even preparing for him. Rock/water isn't a very solid typing either, defensively speaking, so Barbaracle won't make OU.
Xerneas: ubers kthxbai
Yveltal: People saying Genesect could manage with 99 base speed are forgetting that Genesect is an entirely different beast. Genesect had Download, so he could come in on something, then either scout with a powerful U-Turn or smack something really fucking hard with a special attack. Yveltal doesn't have this luxury. I can see Yveltal becoming a neat anti-stall supporter (basically a souped up version of Mandibuzz) or a Hurricane spammer (which is more managable with the weather nerf, not to mention it has to run scarf to outspeed many relevant threats)
Zygarde: Will have a niche as a paraphazer in OU, but will drop to UU if he doesn't turn out to be OP over there. In UU he could wreak some havoc with Extremespeed and two ways to boost his attack. Having no reliable recovery hurts though, kinda negates that sexy bulk.
Heliolisk: I can see this guy being UU, while also being used a lot in OU for being able to function under weather very well. In UU he'll be like a Raikou that doesn't have to rely on HP Ice for coverage and doesn't need to run certain natures in order to get certain moves, but is weak to Mach Punch and incredibly frail in return. In OU he'll be a nice alternative to Jolteon (speaking of which, Jolteon always seemed like a neat UU candidate to me rather than an OU major player)
Trevenant: Not exactly a great spinblocker for OU. Jellicent is bulkier and counters rain like no other, whereas Trevenant is still nailed by Ice Beams flying around. Having higher offense and being able to absorb Spore isn't enough to save it from becoming RU/UU imho.
Gourgeist: If we treat its formes as separate Pokemon, I can see his Super Form getting a niche in OU for being really bulky and having decent offense. Dunno if he'll be able to replace Jellicent as the best spinblocker though.
Avalugg: His typing hurts him too much to be OU. If he'd even be OU, he'd be the Donphan of this generation. Avalugg is a solid RU candidate, not much more. If he ends up in NU we'd finally have a decent spinner, yay! (Misdreavus would still fuck with him though)
Goodra: Goodra is good (ha!), but I doubt he'll have enough utility to be OU. We'll see how he turns out.
 
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Are there people seriously saying Yvetal is going to not be Ubers

Back in Gen V's beginnings there were people like "You know Zekrom isn't that great and with all the super strong stuff this gen introduced it might not be ubers"

For some reason if a cover legend isn't the new Kyogre people at first think it's going to stick around. I don't get this at all.

Yvetal still has titanic defenses, Oblivion Wing which is an attack with solid 80 BP + one of the best attacking types in the game + 75% heals. It still has Dark Aura to boost its Dark STAB to levels rivaling the Kyurems in raw power. It has incredibly potent mixed offense, bulk that surpasses almost everything OU, an overall above average movepool, and a type that is incredibly desirable in a much more ghost-influenced OU. The only thing that something like this has in common with cube (the only other OU 670+ cover legend to date) is that it's weak to SR, and unlike cube, it has none of the other downsides it has.
 
I for one think that Malamar should get a spot on OU at the most. Sure, Close Combat doesn't get STAB, but everytime you use it, your attack raises a stage. If that isn't threatening with a Choice Band, I don't know what is.
 
Surely I'm not the only one who isn't completely sold on Malamar?

86 / 92 / 88 / 68 / 75 / 73

Contrary superpower is nice and all, but his initial bulk and power off of the bat just scream mediocre to me. It'll be interesting to see how he plays in doubles, but for now I can't see him making tremendous waves in OU. Hype might keep him there for a while, and his good support movepool could see him stay in OU but I'm cautious as to whether sticky web speed increase (oh so very situational) and contrary superpower will be good enough.
 
I think Azumarril and Togekiss are going to be bonkers this gen. I really like the simple design elements that went into improving them as well; just added a type. (A type which i have been calling for since gen 4.)

A simple improvement to the game made two of my favorites excellent. Heres hoping Z tutor gives Kiss Moonblast
 
Also, I'm changing my opinion on Mega Charizard Y as well. While I'm not a fan of it combat wise. It can hold off on it's Mega Evo and basically be treated as a Sunny Day Ninetales against Politoed switch-ins. That alone should make it a staple on Sun teams.

@ Ckarasu: As said many times before, Synthesis might be more reliable than before, but it's still an inconsistent recovery option. Sand and Rain are far from dead playstyles. If you're going for Growth+Sun, then you're better off using Venusaur as a Chlorosweeper. That little guy needs a Life Orb, not a Venusaurite. If you Mega evolve to the Thick Fat version, you say bye bye to your Speed. Furthermore MegaSaur has neither the coverage nor the raw power to abuse a move like Growth at +1. Grass and Rock types are still as nonexistent as ever, while being SE against Water/Ground/Fairy does not take away from the fact that numerous Pokemon, especially Steel types, wall MegaSaur cold (no pun intended) unless you drop a STAB or Sleep Powder for EQ. Grass+Poison have always been and still are poor STAB options, I don't see why you're trying to argue otherwise. Grassy Terrain looks good on paper, but then you realize you're jamming up yet another moveslot on a Pokemon that has questionable coverage and needs Synthesis and Sleep Powder to be effective.
 
Malamar could be popular depending on how often Aegislash is used. King's Shield can't be used unless you want Malamar to have its attack doubled. Topsy-Turvy seems pretty useful too. Not much Aegislash can do against Malamar unless I'm missing something.
 
OU material as i see it? Hmmm well aside from Athena's wonderful shield everyone is either praising or complaining about?

Greninja- between this Kazekage's amazing movepool (notably Spikes, dual STAB on both attacking sides, and great coverage) Protean ability, and decent stats it isnt even a question. BL at worst so people dont complain.

Delphox- the Oracle of Kalos can possibly make OU because of its SpAtt, SpDef, and Spd though this depends greatly on what Megas of OU pokemon get moved up (namely Gengar, T-Tar, Alakazam, and Scizor). Ofcourse the normal forms of those guys can take it on but good predictions and use of movepool can cover that issue. While I predict it being more high UU, OU it has a chance.

Azumarill, Togekiss, and Gardevior- Fairyness just boosted them greatly, which Gardevior not needing its Mega to be OU

Clefable- she gets a special explanation for those who don't already use her in RU. Great stat spread overall, Magic Guard, Cosmic Power/ Stored Power, and of course now being another Fairy. The current RU cosmic power set will only become more powerful now and it just has to add Moonball. Sure its still weak to Scizor....so you best keep the RedRipper around.

Galvantula- the ony reason it was low tier before was because of Sand.....then Sun on top of its poor defenses. This used with a rain OU team means StickyWeb plus massive damage from Thunder that at least in rain will have like 110% accuracy. Added to that it has enough SpAtt to run either HP Fire or HP Ice and OHKO a lot that it already outspeeds in OU. Of course, the main reason is because it can quickly spin the web.
 
I'm surprised nobody has been talking about it here: Scolipede is going to be fucking awesome this gen. +10 attack boost (90 -> 100) and Speed Boost on top of a trollish 112 base speed is huge. It has Swords Dance, Baton Pass, Spikes and Toxic Spikes on the support side, and Megahorn/Poison Jab/Earthquake as coverage isn't too shabby. Too bad Aqua Tail and Superpower are tutor moves, so it has to wait for Z for those.

It can be a great offensive spiker, a great cleaner/late game sweeper and a great Baton Passer. Hell, a SD Bug Gem lure set looks nice on paper as Megahorn hits deceptively hard, and +2 Bug Gem Megahorn OHKOs the shit outta pretty much every non-resist.

We'll see how it plays out, but imo low OU is a possibility after the metagame settles and people stop drooling over useless stuff like Greninja, Malamar and Avalugg.
 
I will say Scolipede does take dumps on a lot of the psychic types in OU.....if it werent for the fact that most are scarfed or sashed and can kill Scolipede 50x over. It being a double spiker doesnt make a difference in my opinion when Tentacruel will be the most used Poison type after Gengar and absorbs Toxic Spikes while spinning rocks and spikes. Scolipede may go to UU if people do try to use it more though i dont see many fairies past Sylveon, Florges, and Clefable being at least UU
 
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