Pokémon Greninja

[Swaginator]

I've been running the following on Pokemon Showdown with really good results. I've been bringing him out to sweep/clean up mid/late game and I'm really happy with what I've seen. Most people I've faced don't really know what to counter with yet.

Greninja @ life orb
Timid
252 spatk / 252 spd
Dark Pulse
Grass knot
Hydro pump
Ice beam

Was originally gonna go with u-turn over grass knot but idkkkk I'm loving this

 

[Schpoonman]

I've been running the following on Pokemon Showdown with really good results. I've been bringing him out to sweep/clean up mid/late game and I'm really happy with what I've seen. Most people I've faced don't really know what to counter with yet.

Greninja @ life orb
Timid
252 spatk / 252 spd
Dark Pulse
Grass knot
Hydro pump
Ice beam

Was originally gonna go with u-turn over grass knot but idkkkk I'm loving this

That's pretty much THE set to use.

 

[Heroes and Cons]

Steering us back on topic...

Any ideas for a counter to this guy, especially for his offensive lead sets? I'm using celetran and a thundurus (yeah not legal until december, I know) and froakie is just too much trouble. All I can do is sac thundurus with a priority t-wave and hope to revenge the thing.

I know hard counters will be tricky due to protean, but any tips on stopping the guy without resorting to sacking one of my mons?

Blissey (and Chansey) still completely shuts down most Greninja since it rarely uses strong physical attacks, while most Greninja are halted by Ferrothorn too. Specially Defensive Celebi (risky) and Mega Venusaur (better choice thanks to Thick Fat but takes up your Mega spot) can tank its attacks and retaliate with a strong Giga Drain, though their attacks will probably be rendered neutrally-effective if it Ice Beams or Dark Pulses, thanks to Protean.

Greninja is hard to counter though usually, so it's probably best to just check it in most circumstances. Jolteon is your best bet, though a lot of Scarfers work too, and of course powerful priority from the likes of Dragonite, Breloom, Scizor (if protean has made it neutral / weak to BP) and Lucario can easily send it packing due to its frailty.

Oh, and what on Earth is "celetran"? o_O

 

[hotcoldyay7]

Oh, and what on Earth is "celetran"? o_O

It's referring to the defensive core of Celebi and Heatran. Celebi lures in fire types for Heatran to deal with (and fire moves to absorb as well), while Heatran lures in water types for Celebi to pummel and block.

I've been trying this mixed set, and it's been pretty decent. It deals with steels and the pink blobs quite well, and I thought that was nice for a change since the special sets always get walled to high hell. What do you guys think? Is it bad and should be scrapped, or can it be a lot better and worked on?

Greninja (M) @ Fighting Gem
Ability: Protean
EVs: 252 Spd / 208 Atk / 48 SAtk
Hasty/Naive Nature
- Power-Up Punch
- Acrobatics
- Ice Beam
- Night Slash

 

[Darkrain491]

Priority isn't perfect. It depends on the set that Greninja himself is running. You'd think that Breloom would be a pretty set check but if Greninja is carrying Shadow Sneak and Ice Beam you're pretty much fucked. Your best bets are the blobs, whereas Greninja's only recourse is to U-turn out.

Sorry for the off topic stuff, My other forum sites got the better of me, please accept my apology.

On topic however, In my experiance, assuming he is unboosted, an excellent check is the Gale Wing priority on brave bird/acrobatics(flying gem) from a TalonFlame. 180 base power from brave bird, with priority and banded. pretty much gonna kill him as long as he doesnt resist it, and I am not sure his moveset has anything that can allow him to.

 

[PK Gaming]

Ok, time to lay a few ground rules:

1. No more talks of breeding or IVs. You've been warned.
2. For the love of god, try to post sets that are remotely viable. I'm not trying to stifle creativity, but blatantly bad sets only serve to derail this already incredibly unorganized thread. Please use some common sense on this one.

 

[Krow]

Greninja @ Life Orb
Ability: Protean
EVs: 12 HP / 252 SAtk / 244 Spd
Timid Nature
- Ice Beam
- Scald
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Protect

Pretty standard from what I've seen so far. Protect is the "stand-out" idea I had though. Protect through Protean changes it to Normal type, which doesn't sound all that great except the priority puts it +1 so you negate an attack and become Normal for the next attack (if you aren't faster than them). 244 Spd makes it faster than all max 120 base Spd's, any extra EVs are pretty much wasted as scarfers will be faster than you anyway.

Math

Offensive

Greninja vs OU Mixed Wall Hippowdon
252 SpA Life Orb Greninja Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Hippowdon: 205-242 (48.8 - 57.61%) -- 47.66% chance to 2HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Greninja Scald vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Hippowdon: 172-203 (40.95 - 48.33%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

Greninja vs OU Specially Defensive Skarmory
252 SpA Life Orb Greninja Ice Beam vs. 224 HP / 252+ SpD Skarmory: 153-183 (46.78 - 55.96%) -- 23.83% chance to 2HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Greninja Hidden Power Fire vs. 224 HP / 252+ SpD Skarmory: 229-273 (70.03 - 83.48%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Greninja vs OU Rapid Spin Forretress
252 SpA Life Orb Greninja Hidden Power Fire vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Forretress: 764-905 (215.81 - 255.64%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Greninja vs OU Standard Forrothorn
252 SpA Life Orb Greninja Hidden Power Fire vs. 252 HP / 208 SpD Ferrothorn: 380-452 (107.95 - 128.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Greninja vs OU Specially Defensive Celebi
252 SpA Life Orb Greninja Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 236+ SpD Celebi: 252-299 (62.37 - 74%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Greninja Hidden Power Fire vs. 252 HP / 236+ SpD Celebi: 187-221 (46.28 - 54.7%) -- 7.81% chance to 2HKO

Greninja vs OU Specially Defensive Jirachi
252 SpA Life Orb Greninja Hidden Power Fire vs. 252 HP / 236+ SpD Jirachi: 187-221 (46.28 - 54.7%) -- 7.81% chance to 2HKO

Greninja vs OU Calm Mind Latias
252 SpA Life Orb Greninja Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Latias: 276-328 (75.82 - 90.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Greninja vs OU Offensive Quiver Dance Volcorona
252 SpA Life Orb Greninja Scald vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Volcarona: 276-328 (88.74 - 105.46%) -- 31.25% chance to OHKO

Greninja vs OU Bulky Quiver Dance
252 SpA Life Orb Greninja Scald vs. 240 HP / 0 SpD Volcarona: 281-330 (75.74 - 88.94%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Greninja vs OU Choice Band Tyranitar
252 SpA Life Orb Greninja Scald vs. 180 HP / 0 SpD Tyranitar in sand: 195-229 (50.51 - 59.32%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (w/Sand)

Greninja vs OU Tank Dragonite
252 SpA Life Orb Greninja Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Multiscale Dragonite: 343-406 (88.86 - 105.18%) -- 25% chance to OHKO (w/Multiscale)

Greninja vs OU Bulky Swords Dance Scizor
252 SpA Life Orb Greninja Hidden Power Fire vs. 252 HP / 216 SpD Scizor: 484-567 (140.69 - 164.82%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Greninja vs Goodra
252 SpA Life Orb Greninja Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Goodra: 218-257 (59.89 - 70.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Greninja vs Sylveon
252 SpA Life Orb (custom) Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD (custom): 226-268 (57.36 - 68.02%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Defensive

Jolteon vs Greninja
252+ SpA Choice Specs Jolteon Volt Switch vs. 12 HP / 0 SpD Greninja: 222-262 (77.08 - 90.97%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Jolteon Thunderbolt vs. 12 HP / 0 SpD Greninja: 301-355 (104.51 - 123.26%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Jolteon Signal Beam vs. 12 HP / 0 SpD Greninja: 158-187 (54.86 - 64.93%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Jolteon Hidden Power Ice vs. 12 HP / 0 SpD Greninja: 148-175 (51.38 - 60.76%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Life Orb Jolteon Volt Switch vs. 12 HP / 0 SpD Greninja: 192-227 (66.66 - 78.81%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Life Orb Jolteon Thunderbolt vs. 12 HP / 0 SpD Greninja: 261-308 (90.62 - 106.94%) -- 43.75% chance to OHKO
252+ SpA Life Orb Jolteon Signal Beam vs. 12 HP / 0 SpD Greninja: 138-162 (47.91 - 56.25%) -- 85.16% chance to 2HKO
252+ SpA Life Orb Jolteon Hidden Power Ice vs. 12 HP / 0 SpD Greninja: 129-152 (44.79 - 52.77%) -- 23.44% chance to 2HKO

Weavile vs Greninja
252+ Atk Life Orb Weavile Ice Shard vs. 12 HP / 0 Def Greninja: 122-146 (42.36 - 50.69%) -- 2.34% chance to 2HKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Weavile Pursuit vs. 12 HP / 0 Def Greninja: 122-146 (42.36 - 50.69%) -- 2.34% chance to 2HKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Weavile Night Slash vs. 12 HP / 0 Def Greninja: 214-253 (74.3 - 87.84%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Weavile Ice Shard vs. 12 HP / 0 Def Greninja: 142-168 (49.3 - 58.33%) -- 98.05% chance to 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Weavile Pursuit vs. 12 HP / 0 Def Greninja: 142-168 (49.3 - 58.33%) -- 98.05% chance to 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Weavile Night Slash vs. 12 HP / 0 Def Greninja: 247-292 (85.76 - 101.38%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO

Talonflame vs Normal/Water/Ice Greninja
252+ Atk Life Orb Talonflame Acrobatics (55 BP) vs. 12 HP / 0 Def Greninja: 130-153 (45.13 - 53.12%) -- 31.64% chance to 2HKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Talonflame Flare Blitz vs. 12 HP / 0 Def Greninja: 281-331 (97.56 - 114.93%) -- 81.25% chance to OHKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 12 HP / 0 Def Greninja: 281-331 (97.56 - 114.93%) -- 81.25% chance to OHKO
252+ Atk Flying Gem Talonflame Acrobatics (110 BP) vs. 12 HP / 0 Def Greninja: 297-349 (103.12 - 121.18%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Flying Gem Talonflame Flare Blitz vs. 12 HP / 0 Def Greninja: 216-255 (75 - 88.54%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Flying Gem Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 12 HP / 0 Def Greninja: 322-381 (111.8 - 132.29%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Threats

Scarfers
This is pretty obvious. His defensive abilities aren't that great and any scarfers above 65 base Spd(w/positive nature) will be faster, makes pretty much every scarfer a threat.

Chancey, Blissey, Jellicent, Rotom-W, Tentacruel
These walls completely and 100% stop Greninja in it's tracks. It can't even reliably 4HKO+ any of these pokemon.

Talonflame
Talonflame can theaten Greninja due to his amazing ability Gale Wing, which gives him +1 Priority on all Flying moves. This allows Acrobatics / Brave Bird to have priority over Greninja's attacks and easily results in it dying.

 

[Alphanex20]

Greninja @ Life Orb
Ability: Protean
EVs: 12 HP / 252 SAtk / 244 Spd
Timid Nature
- Ice Beam
- Scald
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Protect

Pretty standard from what I've seen so far. Protect is the "stand-out" idea I had though. Protect through Protean changes it to Normal type, which doesn't sound all that great except the priority puts it +1 so you negate an attack and become Normal for the next attack (if you aren't faster than them). 244 Spd makes it faster than all max 120 base Spd's, any extra EVs are pretty much wasted as scarfers will be faster than you anyway.

Math

Offensive

Greninja vs OU Mixed Wall Hippowdon
252 SpA Life Orb Greninja Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Hippowdon: 205-242 (48.8 - 57.61%) -- 47.66% chance to 2HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Greninja Scald vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Hippowdon: 172-203 (40.95 - 48.33%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

Greninja vs OU Specially Defensive Skarmory
252 SpA Life Orb Greninja Ice Beam vs. 224 HP / 252+ SpD Skarmory: 153-183 (46.78 - 55.96%) -- 23.83% chance to 2HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Greninja Hidden Power Fire vs. 224 HP / 252+ SpD Skarmory: 229-273 (70.03 - 83.48%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Greninja vs OU Rapid Spin Forretress
252 SpA Life Orb Greninja Hidden Power Fire vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Forretress: 764-905 (215.81 - 255.64%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Greninja vs OU Standard Forrothorn
252 SpA Life Orb Greninja Hidden Power Fire vs. 252 HP / 208 SpD Ferrothorn: 380-452 (107.95 - 128.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Greninja vs OU Specially Defensive Celebi
252 SpA Life Orb Greninja Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 236+ SpD Celebi: 252-299 (62.37 - 74%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Greninja Hidden Power Fire vs. 252 HP / 236+ SpD Celebi: 187-221 (46.28 - 54.7%) -- 7.81% chance to 2HKO

Greninja vs OU Specially Defensive Jirachi
252 SpA Life Orb Greninja Hidden Power Fire vs. 252 HP / 236+ SpD Jirachi: 187-221 (46.28 - 54.7%) -- 7.81% chance to 2HKO

Greninja vs OU Calm Mind Latias
252 SpA Life Orb Greninja Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Latias: 276-328 (75.82 - 90.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Greninja vs OU Offensive Quiver Dance Volcorona
252 SpA Life Orb Greninja Scald vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Volcarona: 276-328 (88.74 - 105.46%) -- 31.25% chance to OHKO

Greninja vs OU Bulky Quiver Dance
252 SpA Life Orb Greninja Scald vs. 240 HP / 0 SpD Volcarona: 281-330 (75.74 - 88.94%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Greninja vs OU Choice Band Tyranitar
252 SpA Life Orb Greninja Scald vs. 180 HP / 0 SpD Tyranitar in sand: 195-229 (50.51 - 59.32%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (w/Sand)

Greninja vs OU Tank Dragonite
252 SpA Life Orb Greninja Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Multiscale Dragonite: 343-406 (88.86 - 105.18%) -- 25% chance to OHKO (w/Multiscale)

Greninja vs OU Bulky Swords Dance Scizor
252 SpA Life Orb Greninja Hidden Power Fire vs. 252 HP / 216 SpD Scizor: 484-567 (140.69 - 164.82%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Greninja vs Goodra
252 SpA Life Orb Greninja Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Goodra: 218-257 (59.89 - 70.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Greninja vs Sylveon
252 SpA Life Orb (custom) Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD (custom): 226-268 (57.36 - 68.02%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Defensive

Jolteon vs Greninja
252+ SpA Choice Specs Jolteon Volt Switch vs. 12 HP / 0 SpD Greninja: 222-262 (77.08 - 90.97%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Jolteon Thunderbolt vs. 12 HP / 0 SpD Greninja: 301-355 (104.51 - 123.26%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Jolteon Signal Beam vs. 12 HP / 0 SpD Greninja: 158-187 (54.86 - 64.93%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Jolteon Hidden Power Ice vs. 12 HP / 0 SpD Greninja: 148-175 (51.38 - 60.76%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Life Orb Jolteon Volt Switch vs. 12 HP / 0 SpD Greninja: 192-227 (66.66 - 78.81%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Life Orb Jolteon Thunderbolt vs. 12 HP / 0 SpD Greninja: 261-308 (90.62 - 106.94%) -- 43.75% chance to OHKO
252+ SpA Life Orb Jolteon Signal Beam vs. 12 HP / 0 SpD Greninja: 138-162 (47.91 - 56.25%) -- 85.16% chance to 2HKO
252+ SpA Life Orb Jolteon Hidden Power Ice vs. 12 HP / 0 SpD Greninja: 129-152 (44.79 - 52.77%) -- 23.44% chance to 2HKO

Weavile vs Greninja
252+ Atk Life Orb Weavile Ice Shard vs. 12 HP / 0 Def Greninja: 122-146 (42.36 - 50.69%) -- 2.34% chance to 2HKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Weavile Pursuit vs. 12 HP / 0 Def Greninja: 122-146 (42.36 - 50.69%) -- 2.34% chance to 2HKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Weavile Night Slash vs. 12 HP / 0 Def Greninja: 214-253 (74.3 - 87.84%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Weavile Ice Shard vs. 12 HP / 0 Def Greninja: 142-168 (49.3 - 58.33%) -- 98.05% chance to 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Weavile Pursuit vs. 12 HP / 0 Def Greninja: 142-168 (49.3 - 58.33%) -- 98.05% chance to 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Weavile Night Slash vs. 12 HP / 0 Def Greninja: 247-292 (85.76 - 101.38%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO

Talonflame vs Normal/Water/Ice Greninja
252+ Atk Life Orb Talonflame Acrobatics (55 BP) vs. 12 HP / 0 Def Greninja: 130-153 (45.13 - 53.12%) -- 31.64% chance to 2HKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Talonflame Flare Blitz vs. 12 HP / 0 Def Greninja: 281-331 (97.56 - 114.93%) -- 81.25% chance to OHKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 12 HP / 0 Def Greninja: 281-331 (97.56 - 114.93%) -- 81.25% chance to OHKO
252+ Atk Flying Gem Talonflame Acrobatics (110 BP) vs. 12 HP / 0 Def Greninja: 297-349 (103.12 - 121.18%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Flying Gem Talonflame Flare Blitz vs. 12 HP / 0 Def Greninja: 216-255 (75 - 88.54%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Flying Gem Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 12 HP / 0 Def Greninja: 322-381 (111.8 - 132.29%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Threats

Scarfers
This is pretty obvious. His defensive abilities aren't that great and any scarfers above 65 base Spd(w/positive nature) will be faster, makes pretty much every scarfer a threat.
Chancey, Blissey, Jellicent, Rotom-W, Tentacruel
These walls completely and 100% stop Greninja in it's tracks. It can't even reliably 4HKO+ any of these pokemon.

Talonflame
Talonflame can theaten Greninja due to his amazing ability Gale Wing, which gives him +1 Priority on all Flying moves. This allows Acrobatics / Brave Bird to have priority over Greninja's attacks and easily results in it dying.

You actually forgot a few things, first off, Dark Pulse is you go-to against Jellicent, and it gets Extrasensory for Tenta. Beyond that, U-Turn is at least worth considering since this forces tons of switches.

 

[flUddOS]

To be honest, I don't see the point of Protect. It doesn't really help you counter anything new compared to the standard moves, such as U-turn (let's you escape), Grass Knot (Bulky Waters), Dark Pulse (Ghosts), Extrasensory (Tentacruel, I guess, but rather go with...) or HP: Electric (Gyarados, who otherwise walls you). Unless it helps you get through something that otherwise counters you, why bother?

 

[Alphanex20]

To be honest, I don't see the point of Protect. It doesn't really help you counter anything new compared to the standard moves, such as U-turn (let's you escape), Grass Knot (Bulky Waters), Dark Pulse (Ghosts), Extrasensory (Tentacruel, I guess, but rather go with...) or HP: Electric (Gyarados, who otherwise walls you). Unless it helps you get through something that otherwise counters you, why bother?

The only merit is for Aegislash not being able to Sneak you, but it will just King's Shield when you attack (and Protean activates again) anyway.

 

[alexwolf]

Krow i didn't delete your post because you put a lot of effort in your calcs, but the same set has been posted a million times already and Protect is useless on Greninja.

Now that this thread has been finally cleared (it went from 40 to 9 pages) let's try to stay on topic. No more breeding posts, no more mentions of the same sets over and over, no more gimmick sets, and no more mentions of unviable moves such as Lick or HP Steel. I will be looking over this thread closely and will not hesitate to delete any post without substance so make sure that you have something to say that promotes discussion before posting.

Some starting points to discuss:

• What are the best Pokemon to pair with Spikes Greninja and why?
• What are the best Pokemon to pair with U-turn Greninja and why?
• On what kind of teams you think Greninja performs better (heavy offense, bulky offense, etc)?

As for me, i have found Water Shuriken to be a handy move on offensive teams that lack solid checks to Blaziken, Excadrill, and Talonflame. Finding room for it is hard, but giving up U-turn is worth it in order to deal with metagame defining threats sometimes.

 

[flUddOS]

Water Shuriken is pretty gimmicky, imo. Without Skill Link, it's unreliable, especially without investing in Attack. It also doesn't do much to Talonflame, since he outspeeds you (Base 126 Speed according to Serebii), and ties with you for priority thanks to Gale Wings. Maybe on a dedicated physical Greninja it might work running something like Toxic Spikes/U-Turn/Water Shuriken/"Filler", but even then, the unreliable power on Water Shuriken is somewhat worrisome. Run Azumarrill if you want to take out those threats with a priority water move.

As for partners - I think it depends wholly on what coverage moves you choose. Below are the coverage moves, and what they help check:

HP: Fire - Steels
Grass Knot - Bulky Waters
HP: Electric - Gyarados, Tentacruel, Jellicent
Dark Pulse - Ghosts
Extrasensory - Tentacruel

Assuming Ice Beam and Surf/Hydro Pump are your primary coverage moves and will be on every set (note - there's no real reason you HAVE to run them, thanks to Protean), the key to choosing teammates is to choose partners who you otherwise cannot touch. Also important is that every set is going to have trouble with Fairy/Normal Special Walls/Sponges, so you're going to want to pack a strong physical/mixed sweeper to take them down.

 

[Captain Awesome]

Water Shuriken is pretty gimmicky, imo. Without Skill Link, it's unreliable, especially without investing in Attack. It also doesn't do much to Talonflame, since he outspeeds you (Base 126 Speed according to Serebii), and ties with you for priority thanks to Gale Wings.

Greninja always runs max speed while Talonflame doesn't, so Greninja's Water Shuriken will always go off before Talonflame's Brave Boid.

 

[yuseifudo001]

should I play a spike/suicide lead greninja or as a wall-breaker (but to breed one with hp fire sucks xD)?? I love both.
but I don't want to breed a frokie with hp fire, perfect IV and with protean because that would take too long for me.
or are there also an exellent alternatives those are as good as hp fire?

 

[Hypercut]

Guys, I have updated OP post with Somalia's preview.
As PK Gaming said, stop talking about IV etc, talk about competitive use of this Pokèmon.

 

[Omgwyatt]

I apologize if this has already been answered, we know he is extremely fast, how much faster is he than the next fastest threat to him.

Basically, I'm wanting to figure out how many of the 252 speed IV's are unnecessary, if any?

He goes to 377

I see
Terrakion at 346 (Extrasensory)
Keldeo at 346 (Extrasensory)
Alakazam at 372 (Dark Pulse)
Infernape at 346 (Hydro Pump, Extrasensory)
Jolteon at 394 (yikes)

 

[Hypercut]

Terrakion, Keldeo and Infernape aren't released yet, so don't mention them lol.
However, 252 Max+ Spd is necessary because you can speed tie another Greninja, which run same Max+ 252 Spd.

 

[SJCrew]

Krow, some of your numbers are completely off for the offensive calcs. For example, you didn't apply STAB to the Ice Beam or Scald on the Hippowdon. Also, how are you 2HKOing Sp Def Sylveon with Ice Beam and not Skarmory? I can't check and see if the rest are accurate from my phone, but there are probably a lot more major errors based on that alone.

 

[Fluffy Blue Bunny]

 

[LoDart210]

View attachment 2557

Very anti-meta. Problem is, it's all theory without factoring much of the previous OU threats. I only see you dealing with Volcarona, Ferrothorn, and Scizor.

Cool. How about Heatran? Jellicent? Scarfmons? Lando-T? There's a lot left in the dark, and this set seems tailored to take out very specific mons and that's lame because then he becomes dead meat if/when the opponent loses those pokemon or they never had them to begin with.

 

[Fluffy Blue Bunny]

Cool. How about Heatran? Jellicent? Scarfmons? Lando-T? There's a lot left in the dark, and this set seems tailored to take out very specific mons and that's lame because then he becomes dead meat if/when the opponent loses those pokemon or they never had them to begin with.

I know this set is mediocre against them, but that's kind of irrelevant since these threats don't exist in XY yet and are illegal on Showdown. But once Pokebank comes out, yes, I would not expect anyone to use this set, especially since at least one of the above targets would be in Ubers by then.

Also, if you're facing someone in OU who doesn't have a Scizor, Talonflame, Gengar, Excadrill, Ferrothorn, or Breloom, then you must be really lucky.

 

[C AllStar]

I find there is really no reason to use Dark Pulse on Greninja seeing that in provides no notable coverage at all for Greninja. Water/Grass/Ice/Fire is the best coverage available. The only things Greninja hits for SE damage are ghost and psychic types, most of which are covered by its standard moves. Out of the previous OUs, Celebi and Lati@s are hit harder by Ice Beam, Jellicent is hit harder by Grass Knot while Starmie is hit similarly hard by Grass Knot. Gardevoir, a previous NU psychic that is likely to see some usage in OU, is actually hit harder by Hydro Pump. Other ones including Alakazam, Espeon, Gengar, Jirachi, Metagross and Reuinclus.

252 SpA Life Orb (custom) Hydro Pump vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Alakazam: 227-269 (90.07 - 106.74%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO

252 SpA Life Orb (custom) Hydro Pump vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Espeon: 208-246 (76.47 - 90.44%) -- 25% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

252 SpA Life Orb (custom) Hydro Pump vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Gengar: 253-298 (96.56 - 113.74%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Life Orb (custom) Hydro Pump vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Mega Gengar: 208-246 (79.38 - 93.89%) -- 43.75% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

The three frail ghost/psychics all have a chance to be OHKOed by Hydro Pump after just rocks, Dark Pulse is not needed in these cases.

252 SpA Life Orb (custom) Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 236+ SpD Jirachi: 144-172 (35.64 - 42.57%) -- 91.55% chance to 3HKO
252 SpA Life Orb (custom) Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Jirachi: 199-235 (49.25 - 58.16%) -- 64.45% chance to 2HKO
252 SpA Life Orb (custom) Hydro Pump vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Jirachi: 199-234 (58.35 - 68.62%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252 SpA Life Orb (custom) Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 160 SpD Metagross: 185-218 (50.82 - 59.89%) -- 84.77% chance to 2HKO
252 SpA Life Orb (custom) Hydro Pump vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Metagross: 218-257 (72.18 - 85.09%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252 SpA Life Orb (custom) Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Reuniclus: 227-269 (53.53 - 63.44%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Out of the three 'bulkier psychics', only SpDef Jirachi can survive 2 consecutive Hydro Pumps. SubCM Rachi and Tank Metagross has only a slim chance to avoid the 2HKO. Still, Dark Pulse hits not enough to make significant difference.

252 SpA Life Orb (custom) Dark Pulse vs. 252 HP / 236+ SpD Jirachi: 213-252 (52.72 - 62.37%) -- 98.44% chance to 2HKO

SpDef Jirachi actually has a decent chance to survive two Dark Pulses if running protect and can either wish stall or switch out to something taking its hits better thanks to reduced coverage when using Dark Pulse. Dark Pulse usually does not worth the moveslot on Greninja.

When talking about new ghost/psychics, Delphox and Malamar are hit harder by H-pump while Ice Beam hits Gourgeist and Trevenant harder. Dark Pulse only hits Aegislash and Meowstic harder. I really don't expect Meowstic receiving much usage in OU as well as being unable to take Hydro Pump too well. Aegislash is a significant threat but isn't taking Hydro Pumps too well unless running specially defensive sets.

252 SpA Life Orb (custom) Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD (custom): 140-165 (43.2 - 50.92%) -- 62.11% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock

Other stuffs Dark Pulse hit harder includes Rotom-W and Sap Sipper Azumarill lol. Dark Pulse provides no notable benefit to Greninja's offensive coverage. It should not be used unless your team is super super weak to Aegislash and friends and is usually an inferior option for Greninja.

 

[T-Bolt]

How about this: you give me constructive reasoning as to why HP Steel isn't viable instead of just deleting my post and leaving me in the dark.

This IS a thread for competitive battle discussion, right? Get your heads out of your elitist asses and be fair.

A) Steel's super effective coverage isn't all that good.
B) Hidden Power is only 60 base power.
C) Protean Greninja's defences aren't going to help it take even hits that it resists

These points are fairly evident, to be frank. Also, read the 'change in UT' thread.

 

[Kagete]

A) Steel's super effective coverage isn't all that good.
B) Hidden Power is only 60 base power.
C) Protean Greninja's defences aren't going to help it take even hits that it resists

These points are fairly evident, to be frank. Also, read the 'change in UT' thread.

Thank you. Now I understand. See? Was that so hard?

And not everyone that reads these threads are top-of-the-line competitve players. Some of us are just starting out on the competitive scene, and this kind of constructive response is what keeps us from being baddies. More of this, less deleting posts because you think the question is stupid.

 

[alexwolf]

Thank you. Now I understand. See? Was that so hard?

And not everyone that reads these threads are top-of-the-line competitve players. Some of us are just starting out on the competitive scene, and this kind of constructive response is what keeps us from being baddies. More of this, less deleting posts because you think the question is stupid.

I deleted all those posts including those that were asking if Hidden Power Steel was viable or not. I get why new players would want to make this question and i didn't want them to be left in the dark, but you have to understand that such questions don't help at all when the whole thread is filled with content less posts that don't promote any discussion and this is why i deleted them. They were just promoting the mindset of 'one liner' posts and didn't give to people any incentive to make well constructed and thoughtful posts. As long as the thread is kept to a standard i have no problem in keeping such questions and answering them though.

Cool set Fluffy Blue Bunny (please next time use normal sized text). I would definitely use Waterfall over U-turn though, you need a reliable strong move with good neutral coverage to do some damage, otherwise you are left with weak priority hits that can't do anything to Pokemon not weak to them and Hidden Power Fire, which again, only bothers Pokemon weak to it. Of course the decreased power output in comparison to the special set is a downer but the Pokemon that Water Shuriken and Shadow Sneak are very important and common atm so it is worth it if your team has not enough checks for those Pokemon. Oh and lastly, i don't think that Shadow Sneak is a must on that set so you could probably slash Night Slash with it, in order to OHKO Starmie and 2HKO Latias, Latios, Trevenant, Celebi, and Jellicent.