Pokémon Klefki

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SwagKey is incredibly gimmicky. It lacks the consistency of pretty much every other viable Klefki set. The biggest problem that the people hyping this set have is that they assume the opponent is actually going to stay in and try to hit through parafusion when all you have to do is find the appropriate team member to take the t-wave and...switch out :/ . Any stall team absolutely laughs at this set since they typically carry a cleric/several status resistant pokes. At best, SwagKey annoys offensive teams that are weak to status and even then you can use whatever mon was paralyzed as a status absorber and switch around. If people are 6-0'ing teams with this thing, they are beating below average players.

I really don't get what it is about the obsession over Swagger sets...and the obsession ALWAYS happens at the beginning of a new generation. I wish people would just stop. Why do you think SwagSire didn't work out in BW? (SwagSire = Unaware Swagger Quagsire fyi). And Quag actually had an arguably better defensive typing especially given it's ability (unaffected by the +2 he gave to the opponent via Swagger). After 6 months, you never saw SwagSire again because people couldn't even dominate the ladder with it. Let alone tournaments. Every Swagger set has ultimately failed. So will this one.

I mean I know y'all like TM87, but c'mon. Honestly :/
 

Garchompi

Banned deucer.
I wish people would just stop. Why do you think SwagSire didn't work out in BW? (SwagSire = Unaware Swagger Quagsire fyi). And Quag actually had an arguably better defensive typing especially given it's ability (unaffected by the +2 he gave to the opponent via Swagger).
Where do I even begin with this?
Quagsire's type isn't better for starters, it's slow as hell, no Prankster, no Taunt coupled with extreme vulnerability to status (mainly Toxic), complete Taunt bait itself, no real offenses to speak of and no Foul Play to work around the issue, complete Ferrothorn bait and no access to a reliable paralysis move.

Best case scenario SwagKey induces ragequits, worst case it forces switches and stops sweeps with Prankster Thunder Wave. I'll take that.
 
No, worse case scenario is you get swept by the physical mon you gave +2 attack with
Maybe if you had absolutely no idea what you're doing and swagged something you can't kill after twaving.

Also i'm not even going to acknowledge any post comparing swagkey to swagsire.
 
I've found SwagSub to be great fun for lols and trolling, but for actual competitive matches I would never use it.

Dual Screens is the way to go IMO.
 
Where do I even begin with this?
Quagsire's type isn't better for starters, it's slow as hell, no Prankster, no Taunt coupled with extreme vulnerability to status (mainly Toxic), complete Taunt bait itself, no real offenses to speak of and no Foul Play to work around the issue, complete Ferrothorn bait and no access to a reliable paralysis move.

Best case scenario SwagKey induces ragequits, worst case it forces switches and stops sweeps with Prankster Thunder Wave. I'll take that.
Quagsire never stayed in against Ferrothorn. Just like Klefki shouldn't stay in against any offensive Ground-type. And Foul Play's effectiveness really goes back to my other point: you are expecting them to stay in after the Swagger.

Also i'm not even going to acknowledge any post comparing swagkey to swagsire.
Why not? They both have the same objective: to annoy. And they're both bad sets.


Guys, my point is that Swagger sets themselves have historically been ineffective. Klefki is not going to change that. It doesn't matter if it has Prankster and Steel/Fairy as a typing. Torment Klefki has a better chance of being a more effective set for Klefki to abuse than Swagger + T-Wave. I'll stand corrected if anyone can get to the top of the OU ladder with SwagKey. I seriously doubt it's ever been done with any previous Swagger set from recent generations and there's a reason why you don't see sets like that at the top of the ladder or even at tournaments (where the environment is more creative).
 
The objective is where the connections end, the actual level of efficiency they do their jobs, and the ability they have to serve other roles (such as sweep killers and general utility) leaves the connection faulty, and almost laughable.

Btw I was at the top of OU ladder 2 days ago at top 10. Not that this means anything but I did use swagkey to great effect, however I'd prefer to objectively discuss the matter than just flaunting the ranking i got in nearly one sitting: http://i.imgur.com/ZOfwRxC.png

Still at top 50 or so. I'm AudinoBro.

And prankster with steel/fairy typing obviously matters, that's like saying blaziken is comparable to ninjask despite the typing, and stats. Also "Well paraswag has never been good" is a fallacy, just because it hasn't been good before doesn't mean it never will be even assuming radical variables such as typing, and abilities come into play.

Also, for some reason you think switching out after swagger really hurts klefki, but all it does it let him set up on ANOTHER pokemon. He'll have a sub up, or at least get one up on the switch and now he's ready to screw over yet another pokemon.
 
No offense, but the OU ladder on PS is kinda new, so being on the top of it doesn't say all too much.

You're also comparing a sweeper to a passer, while the Quagsire to Klefki comparison is comparing an annoyer to an annoyer
 
Swagkey gets too much praise and hype ....You can just easily counter it with a lum berry. Perfect for beating noobs and inexperienced player though. Skill gate poke.
 
No offense, but the OU ladder on PS is kinda new, so being on the top of it doesn't say all too much.

You're also comparing a sweeper to a passer, while the Quagsire to Klefki comparison is comparing an annoyer to an annoyer
SB Blaziken can pass now.

And no offense taken on the ladder, however one shouldn't put forth that they'd concede the point of swagkey's consistency based off a ladder top.
 
True, but its still more of a sweeper imo

Anyway, can we drop this. Its not really going nowhere as both sides have made good and bad points and its just gonna end up being the same arguments repeating themselves.
 
SwagKey is incredibly gimmicky. It lacks the consistency of pretty much every other viable Klefki set. The biggest problem that the people hyping this set have is that they assume the opponent is actually going to stay in and try to hit through parafusion when all you have to do is find the appropriate team member to take the t-wave and...switch out :/ . Any stall team absolutely laughs at this set since they typically carry a cleric/several status resistant pokes. At best, SwagKey annoys offensive teams that are weak to status and even then you can use whatever mon was paralyzed as a status absorber and switch around. If people are 6-0'ing teams with this thing, they are beating below average players.
that's the thing, though. you can continually switch against klefki swapping in mons who really don't give a shit about the paralysis or are immune to it (ferrothorn, blissey, skarmory, grounds, electrics, etc.) and avoid the gimmick completely. but if your opponent is shuffling through rocks and even one layer of spikes to avoid this the amount of passive damage you get off of it is tremendous. worst case scenario, you run into a faster ground-type and are forced to switch if you don't want to take the coin-flip chance of killing it with confusion; things like mamo, chomp, excadrill, and gliscor all come to mind (post pokebank, landorus is also pretty huge) but saying that klefki is gimmicky because there are 'mons immune to paralysis is invalid.

the most functional way to play swagkey is to set up multiple layers with forry/skarm/ferro and then shuffle through the team spreading paralysis, killing a mon here and there, and racking up a ton of passive damage. by the time klefki dies, if you've been using it to its fullest, most good cleaners can rip apart the opposing team (choice band talonflame comes to mind)
 
I cant decide on a support klefki move set. especially with imprison on it.
Spikes, dual screens, imprison, t wave.
I think we have a case of 4 move syndrome.
I plan to use it as a anti-support imprison lead if I see another support lead, or just priority dual screens with the help of focus sash.
Ugh. What do you guys think. I'm thinking about dropping t-wave. priority imprison is great for stopping other support leads.
 
This has probably been mentioned already, but Pokemon with Magic Bounce can stop Klefki's fun. Espeon and Mega Absol immediately come to mind. Mega Absol also resists Foul Play, but take that with a grain of salt, for it has crappy defenses and doesn't like Draining Kiss/Dazzling Gleam either. But also keep in mind that Mega Absol gets 115 Special Attack and gets Fire Blast, so it's not totally helpless either.

Then there's...



Xatu
 
Espeon gets hurt pretty hard by foul play and doesn't have any good attacks to deal with klefki. Like if they have a sub set up, bouncing a twave/swag won't matter, and they 2hko with foul play. It's definitely something to consider from team preview but it isn't a super hard counter.

Absol also isn't reliable cause it can't be switched in with bounce without having been out before, so less reliable.
 
Oh my god. Anyone who has faced Liepard with that set knows it's pure evil. And now that a pokemon that doesn't die in one hit from everything can run that same set it will be much worse.
I have a noobie question, why does klefki have 0 attack iv's?
 
Espeon gets hurt pretty hard by foul play and doesn't have any good attacks to deal with klefki. Like if they have a sub set up, bouncing a twave/swag won't matter, and they 2hko with foul play. It's definitely something to consider from team preview but it isn't a super hard counter.

Absol also isn't reliable cause it can't be switched in with bounce without having been out before, so less reliable.
The idea is to lead with Absol if you see a Klefki on the other team. Pretty sure that on the turn you Mega Evolve, you immediately get Magic Bounce, so you're able to bounce back his hazards/Thunder Wave right away. And you can start Fire Blasting. But like I said, Absol is still very frail, and won't like Draining Kiss/Dazzling Gleam. Still, if it can take a hit, it would be a decent 'check' to Klefki leads.

Also, how much does Espeon take from Klefki's Foul Play? Espeon has bad base attack anyway, and if Espeon has 0 Attack IV, then how much would Foul Play do? Still, I don't see Hidden Power Fire doing THAT much to Klefki either, unless it somehow managed to Calm Mind a few times.
 
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The idea is to lead with Absol if you see a Klefki on the other team. Pretty sure that on the turn you Mega Evolve, you immediately get Magic Bounce, so you're able to bounce back his hazards/Thunder Wave right away. And you can start Fire Blasting. But like I said, Absol is still very frail, and won't like Draining Kiss/Dazzling Gleam. Still if it can take a hit, it would be a decent 'check' to Klefk leads.
But wouldn't a lead klefki be used for dual screens, or at least not be dumb enough to walk into a bounce?

I dunno how other people use swagkey, but I don't just randomly throw it out and definitely don't lead with it(unless they use a team particularly weak to it, like a BP team)
 
Not all Klefki leads use screens though. Absol also gets Snatch by the way, though this becomes more of a prediction game, and Absol might be better off trying to kill Klefki as soon as possible, so it won't risk getting hit by a Fairy move, if it has any.
 
But wouldn't a lead klefki be used for dual screens, or at least not be dumb enough to walk into a bounce?

I dunno how other people use swagkey, but I don't just randomly throw it out and definitely don't lead with it(unless they use a team particularly weak to it, like a BP team)
I run a baton pass team right now in showdown, and honestly klefki makes me want to forfeit right at start l0l
 
Not all Klefki leads use screens though. Absol also gets Snatch by the way, though this becomes more of a prediction game, and Absol might be better off trying to kill Klefki as soon as possible, so it won't risk getting hit by a Fairy move, if it has any.
I know not all klefki's use screens, but don't the ones that will generally be leading use it?

Obviously having a mega evolved absol early on is great against klefki, especially if it was freeish (like forcing a switch) because klefki has to be worried about EVERYTHING. But I think even espeon is better in the general countering of klefki.

I run a baton pass team right now in showdown, and honestly klefki makes me want to forfeit right at start l0l
Yea I'd assume something that both invalidates your gains and can shut down the attempt itself wouldn't be very fun lol

Too bad none of the really great passers can deal with it, although a lum berry on a garchomp or salamence receiver would probably be okay.
 
If Klefki lacks a Fairy move, it can't do much to Absol (unless Foul Play does a ridiculous amount to Absol that I'm unaware of, even on a resisted hit). And, if Absol is running Swords Dance, it's a potential free set up as Klefki switches.
 
I know not all klefki's use screens, but don't the ones that will generally be leading use it?

Obviously having a mega evolved absol early on is great against klefki, especially if it was freeish (like forcing a switch) because klefki has to be worried about EVERYTHING. But I think even espeon is better in the general countering of klefki.


Yea I'd assume something that both invalidates your gains and can shut down the attempt itself wouldn't be very fun lol

Too bad none of the really great passers can deal with it, although a lum berry on a garchomp or salamence receiver would probably be okay.
Yeah that and Kanghaskan pretty much wrecks BP teams that rely on sub i.e. scolipede

Also I saw someone use a Girafarig in high elo doubles against klefki, I was under the influence so I can't remember exactly what it ran, but I recall it doing well?

Has there been an oldmon thread about girafarig yet or was this guy just God/the opponent had the downs?

EDIT: I also saw metagross do well against klefki running spd wall
 
If Klefki lacks a Fairy move, it can't do much to Absol (unless Foul Play does a ridiculous amount to Absol that I'm unaware of, even on a resisted hit). And, if Absol is running Swords Dance, it's a potential free set up as Klefki switches.
You seem to be misunderstanding, I'm not denying that the situation you give is curtains for swagkey. The problem is you're unlikely to be in that situation unless they can somehow cope with it via screens. Swagkey, despite being used as such because it's fun, should NOT be used as a lead because it's likely to just fail horribly due to the pool of stuff which can stop it and as time goes on I don't think megabsol will see a lot of free 1st turn sword dances on it.

Like was said, he should come out after spikes/rocks are set up so switching out is a very tough decision if it's swagkey, and supportkey will just set up screens on absol and even with swords dances, and even if they don't see a fire blast coming(I'd probably set up reflect before i thought people would run fire blast on absol) but considering it's lackluster special attack, i don't think it'll kill it and then it'll just light screen and now you have trouble on your hands. I also think it's a waste of a mega to just throw it out because they might lead with klefki.

Like i can't do damage calcs but considering klefki's decent special defense and absol's poor special attack, I don't think fire blast will be killing it in less than 3 hits. Especially with the second being covered by light screen.
 
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