And no apparent other changes to them to make up for it? Jesus, that's awful.
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Battle Mechanics Research
- Thread starter ΩDonut
- Start date
K so math error on my part. I accidentally calc'd with 3 more Atk than Greninja actually had. (I calc'd with 103 and it had 100, Snorlax had 83 Def)
Range for 30% and proper calculations: 72 73 73 75 75 76 76 78 79 79 81 81 82 82 84 85
Gems are 30%
-EDIT- Caught the error because further testing revealed an 85 in the damage roll and I reviewed my calc
Pastebin updated with additional trials: http://pastebin.com/J9mYb1s1
Range for 30% and proper calculations: 72 73 73 75 75 76 76 78 79 79 81 81 82 82 84 85
Gems are 30%
-EDIT- Caught the error because further testing revealed an 85 in the damage roll and I reviewed my calc
Pastebin updated with additional trials: http://pastebin.com/J9mYb1s1
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Soooo... do Choice items still boost by 50%?
Don’t see why not. Gems were probably nerfed because of their power in the official doubles.
Just found out in Battle Maison that if an item is stolen, it is immediately active. ie Ambipom (which just Flung its item) used Thief and stole a Life Orb, and then lost health from attacking.
I wonder if that has to do with the order of item calculations. Someone'll have to do some testing with it to see if they actually get the boost. Because the way the animations/text goes, it would be...
>Ambipom used Thief!
>Ambipom stole its Life Orb!
>Ambipom lost some HP!
In other words, the game calculated Thief's damage, put the Life Orb on it, and then took off HP because it used an attack on the same turn that it held a Life Orb. So either it took Life Orb recoil damage without the 30% boost, or the game predicted that Ambipom would acquire the Life Orb that turn and calculated both damage and recoil as soon as the move "Thief" was selected.
Grip Claw causes partial trapping moves to trap for seven turns. Tested it by giving an Oddish a Grip Claw and using Infestation on a Drifloon. Infestation damaged at the end of the turn it was used, then for six more turns after that, with Drifloon being freed from Infestation and taking no damage at the end of the eighth.
Here is a question Involving The Mega-EVO mechanics. It has been established that the change in speed doesn't apply on the turn you mega evolve but the turn after. But I was thinking of doing a chlorophyll venasaur paired with a mega charizard Y in doubles. Would venasaur get the boost from sun on the same turn that charizard Y goes mega?
Turn order is decided the moment the turn starts. Using Drought Mega Charizard Y or even Prankster Sunny Day Sableye will double Venusaur's speed, but will not allow it to move up in the turn order until the next turn. If Venusaur is the slowest Pokémon on the field, he'll go last even after Chlorophyll activates.
various things about symbiosis:
-as expected due to how it triggers immediately when an item is consumed, if a relevant damage-boosting item is transferred to a pokemon that has just consumed a gem, both multipliers are applied to the damage. my lv 30 electabuzz with 57 attack did 59 damage with a crit and 40 damage normally with a normal gem facade to my 42 defense floette that had passed it a silk scarf. if the silk scarf wasn't applied, the crit should have done 45-54 damage and the normal hit 29-36 damage.
-symbiosis's trigger is an item being consumed. if you enter a battle with no item on a pokemon, symbiosis will not trigger. it will also not trigger if the symbiosis pokemon is switched in when its ally has previously consumed an item.
-if a berry is transferred by symbiosis and its conditions are met, it will activate immediately.
-symbiosis can transfer an item to a far ally in a triple battle.
-symbiosis does not work in rotation battles (granted i don't think any of the abilities that mention "ally" do, but i figured i'd try).
-in a triple battle, if 2 ally's items are consumed simultaneously, the leftmost ally is who symbiosis transfers an item to. tested by having a symbiosis florges in the middle petal blizzard its allies, triggering their oran berries, then doing it a second time with its ally's positions switched.
-as expected due to how it triggers immediately when an item is consumed, if a relevant damage-boosting item is transferred to a pokemon that has just consumed a gem, both multipliers are applied to the damage. my lv 30 electabuzz with 57 attack did 59 damage with a crit and 40 damage normally with a normal gem facade to my 42 defense floette that had passed it a silk scarf. if the silk scarf wasn't applied, the crit should have done 45-54 damage and the normal hit 29-36 damage.
-symbiosis's trigger is an item being consumed. if you enter a battle with no item on a pokemon, symbiosis will not trigger. it will also not trigger if the symbiosis pokemon is switched in when its ally has previously consumed an item.
-if a berry is transferred by symbiosis and its conditions are met, it will activate immediately.
-symbiosis can transfer an item to a far ally in a triple battle.
-symbiosis does not work in rotation battles (granted i don't think any of the abilities that mention "ally" do, but i figured i'd try).
-in a triple battle, if 2 ally's items are consumed simultaneously, the leftmost ally is who symbiosis transfers an item to. tested by having a symbiosis florges in the middle petal blizzard its allies, triggering their oran berries, then doing it a second time with its ally's positions switched.
it should be 100%, though i guess it's possible i am just extremely lucky. as for which symbiosis user passes first in a triple battle, it could be speed (probably is). regardless of positioning, my lv 31 floette's symbiosis would trigger before my lv 1 flabebe's. switching their items didn't change things, either.
anyways, saying that symbiosis's trigger only being an item consumed was a bit premature, since i hadn't tested how it works in regards to move that get rid of items. as it turns out, using fling and natural gift will trigger its ally's symbiosis. however, having your item removed by thief, magician, knock off, or incinerate will not trigger an ally's symbiosis.
and for some other brief notes:
-despite the similarity in flavor to overcoat, fur coat "only" halves physical damage, and does not block weather damage or powders (well, sandstorm and sleep powder were what i tested exactly, but presumably hail and the other powders will still work as well).
-unlike aromatherapy, grassy terrain does not trigger sap sipper.
-rototiller still provides a +1 boost to attack and special attack even in grassy terrain.
dunno if this qualifies as mechanics, but it seems like the best place to put it, and Theorymon asked me to test it with him.
in WiFi battles, shiny animations on the pokemon sent out at the beginning of a battle occur before the battle timer starts. beyond that, any time a shiny pokemon is sent in, the shiny animation takes time from the battle timer.
in WiFi battles, shiny animations on the pokemon sent out at the beginning of a battle occur before the battle timer starts. beyond that, any time a shiny pokemon is sent in, the shiny animation takes time from the battle timer.
This was touched on earlier regarding Farfetch'd with a stick and by LastFootnote, but the Absol thread got into a spat regarding critical hits so I ran a test anyway.
An Absol with Super Luck holding a Scope Lens using a high crit move (in this case Shadow Claw) will critical hit every time. Tested it with 30 Shadow Claws, each one was a critical hit.
So any pokemon with Super Luck could run this set-up I'd assume (not that they'd want to with the nerf to damage and all the pokemon with it have a better ability or they're Unfeazant).
An Absol with Super Luck holding a Scope Lens using a high crit move (in this case Shadow Claw) will critical hit every time. Tested it with 30 Shadow Claws, each one was a critical hit.
So any pokemon with Super Luck could run this set-up I'd assume (not that they'd want to with the nerf to damage and all the pokemon with it have a better ability or they're Unfeazant).
Speaking of Unfezant and its terrible abilities, that reminds me... Someone asked earlier in the thread that since Keen Eye was boosted from "Ignores Accuracy drops" to "Ignores Accuracy drops and the opponents' Evasion boosts", they wanted to know if the abilities Big Pecks and Hyper Cutter were similarly changed.
My test: Go out onto Route 12 and find a Pinsir with Hyper Cutter (much easier said than done). I brought my Mawile with Intimidate to check the abilities (not that I needed to, since if it had Mold Breaker, it would say so), and a Torkoal with Iron Defense.
During this battle, I did not to attack Pinsir (Revenge's damage is never boosted during this battle).
-Revenge, 7 damage
Iron Defense
-Brick Break, 5 damage
Iron Defense
-Revenge, 3 damage.
Iron Defense (now at max defense)
-Vital Throw, 2 damage.
-Revenge, 2 damage.
-Brick Break, 3 damage.
-Brick Break, 3 damage.
-Vital Throw, 2 damage.
-Revenge, 2 damage.
-Revenge, 2 damage.
She was never able to approach 7 or 5 damage again, so Hyper Cutter does not ignore the opponent's Defense boosts.
Now for Big Pecks. I brought a Fletchling into battle against a wild Honedge.
During this battle, I did not attack Honedge, and it never used Fury Cutter more than once at a time (Fury Cutter's damage is not boosted during this battle).
Swords Dance
-Fury Cutter, 5 damage.
-Tackle, 13 damage.
Swords Dance
-Tackle, 18 damage.
-Fury Cutter, 7 damage.
Swords Dance (now at max attack)
-Tackle, 23 damage.
-Tackle, 22 damage.
-Fury Cutter, 10 damage.
-Tackle, 25 damage.
-Fury Cutter, 10 damage.
Once again, Honedge did not drop as low as doing 5 or 13 damage like at the beginning of the battle. (I never saw its unboosted power, Swords Dance was the first move it used.)
So no, Big Pecks does not ignore the opponent's Attack boosts (which is disappointing, I thought that maybe they'd actually made it useful...).
My test: Go out onto Route 12 and find a Pinsir with Hyper Cutter (much easier said than done). I brought my Mawile with Intimidate to check the abilities (not that I needed to, since if it had Mold Breaker, it would say so), and a Torkoal with Iron Defense.
During this battle, I did not to attack Pinsir (Revenge's damage is never boosted during this battle).
-Revenge, 7 damage
Iron Defense
-Brick Break, 5 damage
Iron Defense
-Revenge, 3 damage.
Iron Defense (now at max defense)
-Vital Throw, 2 damage.
-Revenge, 2 damage.
-Brick Break, 3 damage.
-Brick Break, 3 damage.
-Vital Throw, 2 damage.
-Revenge, 2 damage.
-Revenge, 2 damage.
She was never able to approach 7 or 5 damage again, so Hyper Cutter does not ignore the opponent's Defense boosts.
Now for Big Pecks. I brought a Fletchling into battle against a wild Honedge.
During this battle, I did not attack Honedge, and it never used Fury Cutter more than once at a time (Fury Cutter's damage is not boosted during this battle).
Swords Dance
-Fury Cutter, 5 damage.
-Tackle, 13 damage.
Swords Dance
-Tackle, 18 damage.
-Fury Cutter, 7 damage.
Swords Dance (now at max attack)
-Tackle, 23 damage.
-Tackle, 22 damage.
-Fury Cutter, 10 damage.
-Tackle, 25 damage.
-Fury Cutter, 10 damage.
Once again, Honedge did not drop as low as doing 5 or 13 damage like at the beginning of the battle. (I never saw its unboosted power, Swords Dance was the first move it used.)
So no, Big Pecks does not ignore the opponent's Attack boosts (which is disappointing, I thought that maybe they'd actually made it useful...).
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More critical hit research. In an attempt to see if you could get a 100% critical rate in other ways, I found out something.
It appears focus energy may have gotten a boost, going from boost the proc. rate from one stage to two. I tested it with a Scyther using focus energy while holding a scope lens using pursuit and again while using slash. Both would always crit., every time. Contrastly, an Absol with super luck and a scope lens using quick attack wouldn't crit occasionally.
Gonna need more testing to be certain (and I'd love some help on this, just to increase sample size. Want to investigate proc rates on a stage one and two critical boost, along with more focus energy data). If true, this may open some options for Pokemon with Sniper and Focus Energy (Kingdra? Maybe?) or to treat Focus Energy like a pseudo-Nasty Plot/Swords Dance combo for wallbreakers without such options (Hydreigon?). Sure, crits have been nerfed, but if you could always crit with freed item slots for life orb, or crit on things like Draco Meteor or Close Combat...
Heck, always critical hits with stone edge and focus energy with a life orb sounds scary enough.
But I'm getting ahead of myself and don't want to be the guy to start another rapid spin Greninja fiasco. I'll try to test this more, but would love some help.
It appears focus energy may have gotten a boost, going from boost the proc. rate from one stage to two. I tested it with a Scyther using focus energy while holding a scope lens using pursuit and again while using slash. Both would always crit., every time. Contrastly, an Absol with super luck and a scope lens using quick attack wouldn't crit occasionally.
Gonna need more testing to be certain (and I'd love some help on this, just to increase sample size. Want to investigate proc rates on a stage one and two critical boost, along with more focus energy data). If true, this may open some options for Pokemon with Sniper and Focus Energy (Kingdra? Maybe?) or to treat Focus Energy like a pseudo-Nasty Plot/Swords Dance combo for wallbreakers without such options (Hydreigon?). Sure, crits have been nerfed, but if you could always crit with freed item slots for life orb, or crit on things like Draco Meteor or Close Combat...
Heck, always critical hits with stone edge and focus energy with a life orb sounds scary enough.
But I'm getting ahead of myself and don't want to be the guy to start another rapid spin Greninja fiasco. I'll try to test this more, but would love some help.
The focus energy has been known for awhile. Focus energy and a high crit move is an auto-crit. It was not tested with a high-crit item but it was assumed to also be an autocrit, unless high-crit moves were now more stages than items. Stick gives the same amount of boost as focus energy, so farfetch'd with a stick will always crit with high crit moves.
The problem so far is that it seems like the crit stages are completely different and no one seems to know exactly how yet. Focus energy or stick alone seem to do around 50% crit, but super-luck and high crit move seem to do in the 66%-75% range. This would imply it is not as simple as +3 stages being 100% and focus energy being +2 stages. Additionally just a high crit move alone seems to do somewhere around 15-25%. Of course it could just be that the sample sizes used to get these estimates were rather poor.
The problem so far is that it seems like the crit stages are completely different and no one seems to know exactly how yet. Focus energy or stick alone seem to do around 50% crit, but super-luck and high crit move seem to do in the 66%-75% range. This would imply it is not as simple as +3 stages being 100% and focus energy being +2 stages. Additionally just a high crit move alone seems to do somewhere around 15-25%. Of course it could just be that the sample sizes used to get these estimates were rather poor.
Huh. I never found the focus energy part anywhere, so sorry about that.
I do agree that pinpointing the other stages below 100% is an exercise in annoyance. I've tried several samples that got very inconsistent results (although I think 66% on Stage 2 is somewhere in the ball park).
I personally got 75% but my test was only with 100 trials. I have heard many others state they got around 66%. I have heard statements of 50% for stick and focus energy alone, but again, no one did detailed testing. It is quite possible all of them are 66% or that all of them are 50%. It's also possible that there is something more complicated going on.
Some program on TV said that Incinerate now destroys Gems. Anyone can confirm this?
play nice does not miss, and it bypasses substitutes. it's not a sound move, and is bounced by magic bounce.
keen eye does not ignore snow cloak, and presumably sand veil as well. keen eye noctowl missed snow cloak beartic during hail with extrasensory.
run away does not ignore trapping abilities.
keen eye does not ignore snow cloak, and presumably sand veil as well. keen eye noctowl missed snow cloak beartic during hail with extrasensory.
run away does not ignore trapping abilities.