AV goodra with infestation and Leftovers Dragonite with wrap are the only worthwhile OU users of trapping moves I've run into, but if anyone finds some others, I'd love to hear them.
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Move Infestation (and trapping moves in general)
- Thread starter Banryu
- Start date
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Hmm, fair enough. And since this curse-set would still be bad even with the right investment, I can't really say that your calcs are misleading. Imho, the only way for dusclops to trap would be with WoW & trying to take on a pysical attacker.
However, you should couple it with something that can set up on special attackers because they'll love to switch in; If you hit them with infestation then, you can switch in your set-up-mon and have at least one free turn, which can be game-changing.
It has, but since Heatran hasn't been released yet and we don't know if he's changed any, we're assuming he's stayed the same and as such isn't much of a conversation subject. Chances are anything that worked last gen, will work this gen (though that metal sound set might be worth more as assault vest sets mean Blissey will have some friends in the special wall department)
I love stall and I'm really tempted to build a stall team around this (with the buff to all trap damage).
The fact that you only need to survive ~4 turns to faint anything that's already burned or poisoned is nice.
Switch in on something you dominate then hit the incoming pokemon with pseudo-trapping moves.
A layer of Toxic Spikes will also help to inflict damaging status efficiently.
To help survive the four turns there's the venerable Protect as well as Torment
Eg for Dusk or Spiritomb:
Infestation | Will-o-wisp | Protect/Rest | Torment/Confuse Ray
Moves that waste two turns with a semi-invulnerable turn (Fly, Bounce, Phantom Force, Dig, Dive) could help too.
Assuming the target is already statused (tspikes) and switched into the trap, just live a hit and Dive (etc), then Protect and it's all over.
Eg w/ Walrein
Ice Body: Whirlpool | Dive | Protect | Toxic
Leftovers returns 1/4 of max HP over four turns. If hail is not negating it, you may need an extra turn.
I think Protect -> Dive -> Protect should accomplish that while exposing Walrein only once.
But you'll need to get lucky with Whirpool.
The fact that you only need to survive ~4 turns to faint anything that's already burned or poisoned is nice.
Switch in on something you dominate then hit the incoming pokemon with pseudo-trapping moves.
A layer of Toxic Spikes will also help to inflict damaging status efficiently.
To help survive the four turns there's the venerable Protect as well as Torment
Eg for Dusk or Spiritomb:
Infestation | Will-o-wisp | Protect/Rest | Torment/Confuse Ray
Moves that waste two turns with a semi-invulnerable turn (Fly, Bounce, Phantom Force, Dig, Dive) could help too.
Assuming the target is already statused (tspikes) and switched into the trap, just live a hit and Dive (etc), then Protect and it's all over.
Eg w/ Walrein
Ice Body: Whirlpool | Dive | Protect | Toxic
Leftovers returns 1/4 of max HP over four turns. If hail is not negating it, you may need an extra turn.
I think Protect -> Dive -> Protect should accomplish that while exposing Walrein only once.
But you'll need to get lucky with Whirpool.
Been using
Goodra
252HP/4def/252SpD (can run a bit in def)
Calm
- Toxic
- Flamethrower
- Infestation
- Rest
Goodra
252HP/4def/252SpD (can run a bit in def)
Calm
- Toxic
- Flamethrower
- Infestation
- Rest
I has been thinking in this set for a shuckle. I am posting it since the shuckle thread has been close:
Contrary Shuckle@binding band
252 HP 252 Def 4 SDef
Infestation
Toxic
Sticky web
Rest
My team has a volcarona and a vaporeon so I don't care much about special sweeper. Not sure which nature to use. Also I has been thinking in shel smash ,but I want to leave the legacy of sticky web to the rest of the team.
Contrary Shuckle@binding band
252 HP 252 Def 4 SDef
Infestation
Toxic
Sticky web
Rest
My team has a volcarona and a vaporeon so I don't care much about special sweeper. Not sure which nature to use. Also I has been thinking in shel smash ,but I want to leave the legacy of sticky web to the rest of the team.
Would you mind doing the dusclops set with an optimal spread? Merely to see if its viable? I understand wanting to provide this set to win an argument, but if dusclops is viable with a different set, I would love to know.
I'd be interested as well. However, let's think about what "viable" means in this situation.
Assuming we're still talking about the curse/infestation staller set, we assume:
1. Dusclops comes in clean (after a teammate has fainted, or to start the match)
2 .The opponent switches out, and we hit infestation on the switch-in.
3. We use protect on the following turn.
That in place, Dusclops now has to use curse AND survive a hit on the second turn, so it's already at 50% HP. Protect on the third turn.
Infestation has racked up at this point: 1/2 of the HP. Curse, after the final protect, should finish the opponent, correct?
So, Dusclops only has to take a single hit at 50% HP for this to work? Am I correct in this scenario?
I wasn't talking about the curse set, I was merely wanting calcs from basic counters, on a physically defensive and HP oriented duskclops.
I have a more specific set in mind; however, that is because I'm building a trick room team.
My set includes infestation, rest, W-o-W and trick room. I want to see if I can survive two attacks from regular counters in order for rest to be effective.
+2 252+ Atk (custom) (Move 1) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Dusclops: 138-163 (48.59 - 57.39%) -- 94.14% chance to 2HKO
It says custom because no talonflame, and move 1 because it wouldn't take into account acrobatics' no item buff. The + 2 is because its plain and simple talonflame will have enough time to boost up against a poke like clops, if he isn't already.
Want me to do the others?
So, if talon flame was burned, that would drop to a garunteed 4HKO (please correct me if I'm being dumb)?
How about azuramill?
Ellis
Remember Talonflame is a Fire-type.
Frenzy-kun
I'd use leftovers. The passive healing really helps on Shuckle.
Remember Talonflame is a Fire-type.
Frenzy-kun
I'd use leftovers. The passive healing really helps on Shuckle.
Talonflame is a fire type, and this immune to burn. If he wasn't, he could just as easily bust out another sd and render the burn useless attack wise. Or, he could pull out his ultra-unexpected move: Taunt.
As I mentioned Toxic is something that totally ruins your stall viability with Cradily. With the Stockpiles you'd be accruing you can afford the two turns of downtime for a full Rest that removes any chance of status. If you aren't using Stockpile then yes, use Recover.
Right, but stockpile is very suboptimal without reliable non lefties recovery.
I would actually argue that because you use Stockpile you should use Rest. If you're staying for the long haul and can't be phased then Toxic is by far your biggest enemy. Stockpile in the sand is retardedly bulky. Seriously, pair him with a Toxic using Hippowdon with Smooth Rock.
Come Pokebank:
Gyarados@Leftovers/King's Rock
Intimidate
Bold 252 HP / 252 Df / 4 SpD
~ Whirlpool
~ Bounce/Thunder Wave
~ Waterfall/Iron Head
~ Protect/Taunt
Intimidate makes Gyarados a great switch in. He has good typing and just the right moves to restrict the enemy's ability to do anything to ensure more safe turns for damage and Leftovers recovery. Bounce keeps you safe from damage for a turn and is great in conjunction with Protect giving you two free turns. It also has a great paralysis chance, or you could just straight up Thunder Wave. Afterwards, Waterfall gives you STAB paraflinch, a more offensive means of free Lefties recovery and Whirlpool damage. If you want a greater chance of flinching then go for Iron Head instead with King's Rock, but Leftovers is a safer bet for no recovery. Protect is the final slot for obvious reasons, although Taunt could be an invaluable option if you were to trap something tricky or a set-up mon. Relegating them to attempting to attack you with mediocre attacks. Taunt+Bounce is a good combination meaning you at least have pseudo-protect, albeit without priority.
Gyarados@Leftovers/King's Rock
Intimidate
Bold 252 HP / 252 Df / 4 SpD
~ Whirlpool
~ Bounce/Thunder Wave
~ Waterfall/Iron Head
~ Protect/Taunt
Intimidate makes Gyarados a great switch in. He has good typing and just the right moves to restrict the enemy's ability to do anything to ensure more safe turns for damage and Leftovers recovery. Bounce keeps you safe from damage for a turn and is great in conjunction with Protect giving you two free turns. It also has a great paralysis chance, or you could just straight up Thunder Wave. Afterwards, Waterfall gives you STAB paraflinch, a more offensive means of free Lefties recovery and Whirlpool damage. If you want a greater chance of flinching then go for Iron Head instead with King's Rock, but Leftovers is a safer bet for no recovery. Protect is the final slot for obvious reasons, although Taunt could be an invaluable option if you were to trap something tricky or a set-up mon. Relegating them to attempting to attack you with mediocre attacks. Taunt+Bounce is a good combination meaning you at least have pseudo-protect, albeit without priority.
I've been using Tangrowth to test my Tang/Heatran core and in action it's gotten some insane KOs. I'm talking Dragonite and T-Tar levels of physical offense.
I'd still imagine it ends up in the lower tiers, especially as Fire Blast is such a good coverage move and its special defense is awful, but this set has been working wonders:
Tangrowth @ Leftovers
Regenerator, Relaxed (+Def -Speed), 252 HP 252 Def 4 SpD
-Infestation
-Sleep Powder
-Leech Seed
-Knock Off
Switch in and tank most any unboosted physical attack (or a physical poke you predict will set up a move like Dragon Dance, because even +1 attack rarely OHKOs this monster). From there, you have four fantastic options to wreck the opponent. Sleep Powder may have been brought back down from Gen V's lunacy, but it still forces many a switch. As does Leech Seed, which also turns 2HKOs into 3HKOs. But the real joy of this set comes from Infestation.
If you can pull off an Infestation against a physical attacker without any means of escape (read: U-turn, phazing, being a Ghost), they die. Sleep Powder renders them useless, Leech Seed heals you up while further winnowing them down, and, unlike Toxic stalling, only one type is immune to its double-wither. If you have a spinner or defogger, it'll also comfort you to know that this buddy traps and kills the likes of Ferrothorn and Forretress (once the latter is too sleepy to spin away the infestation), opening you up for a game without hazards should they be the opponent's setters.
(Unlike Jumpluff, Tangrowth can actually switch in and take hits, and thanks to Regenerator it can hit-and-run like nobody's business!)
Knock Off is fantastic for getting rid of Leftovers to quicken the foe's slow demise, and its buff under Tangrowth's respectable Base 100 attack means it packs a surprising punch, especially against the ghosts that will switch in once they catch wise to your trapping. Other options I haven't tested for the fourth slot include Synthesis and Giga Drain for further healing, Toxic for when Sleep Clause is activated, and Protect or Substitute if you want more reliable protection.
Again, I suspect this will end up in lower tiers, but honestly I can't wait for that to happen; it's a great set, made better by lower attack stats. Once my beloved UU tier emerges, Vine Yeti will be an absolute menace.
I'd still imagine it ends up in the lower tiers, especially as Fire Blast is such a good coverage move and its special defense is awful, but this set has been working wonders:
Tangrowth @ Leftovers
Regenerator, Relaxed (+Def -Speed), 252 HP 252 Def 4 SpD
-Infestation
-Sleep Powder
-Leech Seed
-Knock Off
Switch in and tank most any unboosted physical attack (or a physical poke you predict will set up a move like Dragon Dance, because even +1 attack rarely OHKOs this monster). From there, you have four fantastic options to wreck the opponent. Sleep Powder may have been brought back down from Gen V's lunacy, but it still forces many a switch. As does Leech Seed, which also turns 2HKOs into 3HKOs. But the real joy of this set comes from Infestation.
If you can pull off an Infestation against a physical attacker without any means of escape (read: U-turn, phazing, being a Ghost), they die. Sleep Powder renders them useless, Leech Seed heals you up while further winnowing them down, and, unlike Toxic stalling, only one type is immune to its double-wither. If you have a spinner or defogger, it'll also comfort you to know that this buddy traps and kills the likes of Ferrothorn and Forretress (once the latter is too sleepy to spin away the infestation), opening you up for a game without hazards should they be the opponent's setters.
(Unlike Jumpluff, Tangrowth can actually switch in and take hits, and thanks to Regenerator it can hit-and-run like nobody's business!)
Knock Off is fantastic for getting rid of Leftovers to quicken the foe's slow demise, and its buff under Tangrowth's respectable Base 100 attack means it packs a surprising punch, especially against the ghosts that will switch in once they catch wise to your trapping. Other options I haven't tested for the fourth slot include Synthesis and Giga Drain for further healing, Toxic for when Sleep Clause is activated, and Protect or Substitute if you want more reliable protection.
Again, I suspect this will end up in lower tiers, but honestly I can't wait for that to happen; it's a great set, made better by lower attack stats. Once my beloved UU tier emerges, Vine Yeti will be an absolute menace.
I'd stick with Knock Off. It utilizes Tangrowth's good Atk stat and like you said, Leftovers removal is a big deal. If you had sun support I would say use Synthesis with Leaf Guard. His SpA isn't really good enough to utilize Giga Drain. Lefties, LSeed and Regenerator should be more than enough. Does Tangrowth get Stun Spore? If Sleep Clause is an issue you can paralyze numerous opponents allowing Tangrowth to go first more often and can also net some free turns here and there.
Just point of order, Tangrowth's SpA is 110, which is ten points higher than its Attack. Stun Spore is nice, but I feel like the miss rate isn't worth it, unlike Sleep Powder. But to each their own.
Nope. BP and U-Turn and Volt Switch all slip away from trapping moves.
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