Bulk Up Talonflame is still good, but I run Flare Blitz / Brave Bird / Roost / Bulk Up. It's certainly not as immediately threatening as what the Swords Dance set is, but what it gives up in immediate power it makes up for with its longevity. Bulk Up makes it easier for Talonflame to keep setting up against some physical attackers. For example, Swords Dance Aegislash that tries to spam King's Shield against Talonflame won't enjoy being set up on. Swords Dance Talonflame is definitely going to be more consistent as a strong sweeper, but there's some merit to Bulk Up for sure.
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Pokémon Talonflame
- Thread starter TaBuu
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+2 252+ Atk Life Orb (custom) Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Tyranitar: 313-370 (77.47 - 91.58%)
Me first Talonflame is funny.
Also, Mandibuzz doesn't counter talonflame, banded brave bird 2HKOs after rocks/if mandibuzz is not completely healthy, +2 LO Brave bird is similarly damaging.
Me first Talonflame is funny.
Also, Mandibuzz doesn't counter talonflame, banded brave bird 2HKOs after rocks/if mandibuzz is not completely healthy, +2 LO Brave bird is similarly damaging.
Bulk Up sets really appreciate Taunt, since they can set up more easily on things like Ferrothorn, SubToxic Gliscor, Scizor, and the Grass / Ghost-types (without Rock Slide) while taking less and less damage from their attacks. However, this means you have to forgo Flare Blitz so you can no longer punch through Steels, but setting up with Talonflame has never been easier.
Shroomisaur
Smogon's fantastical fun-guy.
Absolutely, Choice Band is one of Talonflame's most effective sets, I'm using it on Showdown as we speak! Since Talonflame often just spams Brave Bird the incredible power of CB really helps. Cutting down on the recoil is a nice bonus, as you said. A boosted U-Turn is nice for hitting things like TTar as well.
What fourth move do you use on the set? I mean you don't need much beyond STABs and U-Turn anyway, so I usually just go for Aerial Ace for something less suicidal.
Shroomisaur
Smogon's fantastical fun-guy.
Yeah, the fourth moveslot is basically filler. I've run Aerial Ace there before but never used it, so instead I use Tailwind now. Yes, Banded Tailwind sounds dumb, but considering you'll rarely if ever use that moveslot, Tailwind is great. It gets priority and is the ultimate "emergency button" and might just save your bacon if Talonflame is too weak to be of further use. Tailwind can allow you to bring in another Pokemon of your own and finish off an opposing sweeper.
EDIT: 711th post. Where's mah Slurpee?
Shroomisaur
Smogon's fantastical fun-guy.
Well, even with 0 Speed, Talonflame outspeeds 252+ Jolly Mamoswine and everything below. Most people run Speed simply to beat relevant Steel-types, but there's plenty of threatening priority out there too. Just for completeness' sake, here's a list of relevant base speeds with priority users you might want to outspeed:
126 - Speed tie with opposing Talonflame
125 - Weavile Ice Shard
115 - Mega Absol, Mega Houndoom Sucker Punch
112 - Mega Lucario Bullet Punch / Vacuum Wave (although many carry Extremespeed for Talonflame)
111*- Prankster Thundrus, Tornadus (*Post-pokebank)
105 - Mega Pinsir Quick Attack, Zoroark Sucker Punch
100 - Mega Kangaskahn Sucker Punch
95 - non-mega Houndoom
90 - non-mega Lucario, Kangaskahn
85 - Toxicroak, Nidoking Sucker Punch
I run adamant banded as well and the fourth move I use is Aerial ace, sometimes you just want a priority move but don't want the recoil. It works perfectly fine and I actually use it almost as commonly as I'd use X-Scissor on a Terrakion.
I am of the opinion that this bird is probably the biggest threat to the metagame as it stands at the moment, the introduction of Heatran should absorb some of its usage though. I like using Aggron to counter it personally because very little pokemon want to switch into head smash and it also gives Aggron a good excuse to SR as talonflame switches out.
I am of the opinion that this bird is probably the biggest threat to the metagame as it stands at the moment, the introduction of Heatran should absorb some of its usage though. I like using Aggron to counter it personally because very little pokemon want to switch into head smash and it also gives Aggron a good excuse to SR as talonflame switches out.
Since it is common on Band Ho-oh in Ubers, I guess Sleep Talk might be a good option as a filler ?
This thing is a nightmare. It's hard to believe that it has just base 81 Attack.
It's hard to deal with as a revenge killer with U-turn, when you expect it to hit-and-run. Then it uses Swords Dance.
I've found a few really solid checks in Rock Slide/Stone Edge Gliscor and Coil/Dragon Dance Extremespeed Zygarde. Gliscor is a good counter, and Zygarde can use it as setup bait.
I've used Aerial Ace as a filler move. It's quite good for picking off weakened foes without suffering recoil.
One other thing I've seen is Acrobatics, possibly without a hold item. This makes it much harder to stop, with the lack of recoil.
It's hard to deal with as a revenge killer with U-turn, when you expect it to hit-and-run. Then it uses Swords Dance.
I've found a few really solid checks in Rock Slide/Stone Edge Gliscor and Coil/Dragon Dance Extremespeed Zygarde. Gliscor is a good counter, and Zygarde can use it as setup bait.
I've used Aerial Ace as a filler move. It's quite good for picking off weakened foes without suffering recoil.
One other thing I've seen is Acrobatics, possibly without a hold item. This makes it much harder to stop, with the lack of recoil.
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I've been trying this set on Showdown! and wonder what you guys think about it
Talonflame @ Focus Sash
Ability: Gale Wings
EVs: 4 Spd / 252 Atk / 252 HP
Adamant Nature
- Roost
- Flare Blitz
- Acrobatics
- Swords Dance
Its not totally crippled by rocks as priority roost lets you get the sash back up. Flying gem would be better but... anyway I'm not sure about the EVs, I just wanted a way to use acrobatics now since I don't really like having 2 recoil moves. I haven't tried the banded versions, and after reading some replies here I'm definitely going to give it a shot.
Talonflame @ Focus Sash
Ability: Gale Wings
EVs: 4 Spd / 252 Atk / 252 HP
Adamant Nature
- Roost
- Flare Blitz
- Acrobatics
- Swords Dance
Its not totally crippled by rocks as priority roost lets you get the sash back up. Flying gem would be better but... anyway I'm not sure about the EVs, I just wanted a way to use acrobatics now since I don't really like having 2 recoil moves. I haven't tried the banded versions, and after reading some replies here I'm definitely going to give it a shot.
Having a item and acrobatics kinda work against eachother. Ideally, the Choice Band works best as you hit first and hard. Switch out, and then come back in when your opponent gives you an opportunity to roost back up. Switch out and come back in for another attack, and so forth.
Or leftovers is a nice alternative.
Not being able to properly use Acrobatics without taking a hit all the way from max HP to 1 HP is... bad. You'd be better off with no item at all.
No one has mentioned this
Is Natural Gift a possible coverage option?
Is Natural Gift a possible coverage option?
Natural Gift, due to its one-time use and low BP is generally not at all viable on any mon, because of being extremely situational and basically being a waste of a moveslot after a single use. That said, Talonflame already has plenty of viable moves to fill up its 4 slots so its better off leaving its counters for its teammates to handle.
I think the recommended minimum speed for Talonflame should actually be 88 so that you outspeed Adamant Pinsir. Its not much of a speedcreep from 60 and it can give you other options to check it since Jolly misses out on a fair few KOs. For example using my team, +2 return misses out on the OHKO after rocks on Baloon Heatran if Jolly.
The Pokebank website has stated that Pokebank cannot transfer items. Flying Gem badly needs to be made illegal on Showdown for this reason, I've seen way too many Talonflames running it and it's not in fact available even post-Pokebank.
No item Acrobatics is overall inferior to even Leftovers Brave Bird. At least Lefties can help to mitigate recoil (from Flare Blitz as well!) while netting more damage with your Flying STAB, possibly survive SR (if you've yet to attack), counteracts Sandstorm damage, and gives some health when you're not attacking (boosting or Roosting).
If your average Brave Bird damage per turn is more than 3/16 Talonflame's HP (such as if you use Brave Bird half the time Talonflame is out and its average damage is 6/16 Talonflame's HP), you'll still be taking more damage from Brave Bird recoil than you'll heal with Leftovers. For particularly offensive sets, I'd expect this, so in this case using Brave Bird + Leftovers over Acrobatics + no item means taking some extra damage in exchange for a very small power boost. That's not to say Brave Bird + Leftovers doesn't have uses; sets like Bulk Up in particular will really get something out of the healing, but for a standard attacking Talonflame, I wouldn't assume it's better than Acrobatics without knowing more about the situation.
I can attest that the Bulk-up set is really quite a terror to face if this thing gets a chance to boost. Especially late game when most of its bulky counters are removed.
This Pokemon is a massive pain in the ass for teams who aren't running Stealth Rock. It basically just comes in and burds everywhere and there's very little anyone can do about it. Even if you have counters, it's extremely hard to pin down and kill. I can't count the amount of times I've come down to the wire with a handfull of frail sweepers and a Talonflame on the opposing team, and lost simply because I was unable to remove it from the game early on.
I have had some success with switching a bulky rough skin/rocky helmet Druddigon into its Brave Bird though.
This Pokemon is a massive pain in the ass for teams who aren't running Stealth Rock. It basically just comes in and burds everywhere and there's very little anyone can do about it. Even if you have counters, it's extremely hard to pin down and kill. I can't count the amount of times I've come down to the wire with a handfull of frail sweepers and a Talonflame on the opposing team, and lost simply because I was unable to remove it from the game early on.
I have had some success with switching a bulky rough skin/rocky helmet Druddigon into its Brave Bird though.
Yeah I dunno what I was thinking, there's a lot more stuff than that... Sucker Punch Absol can outrun it if it's not got enough investment, I'm sure there's others.
Talonflame @ Focus Sash
Ability: Gale Wings
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 Atk / 4 HP
Jolly Nature
IVs: 0 Def / 0 SDef
- Swords Dance
- Roost
- Flare Blitz
- Acrobatics
Set up on pokemon with ohko potential and spam acrobatics. Use roost if dmg is less than 50% till sash activate. Speed investment is needed to speed tie with other talon flame and outspeed sucker punch users such as mega absol and kanghaskhan. Works well enough for me.
Ability: Gale Wings
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 Atk / 4 HP
Jolly Nature
IVs: 0 Def / 0 SDef
- Swords Dance
- Roost
- Flare Blitz
- Acrobatics
Set up on pokemon with ohko potential and spam acrobatics. Use roost if dmg is less than 50% till sash activate. Speed investment is needed to speed tie with other talon flame and outspeed sucker punch users such as mega absol and kanghaskhan. Works well enough for me.
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